Question VA+HDR or IPS

[Metro_2033_Fan]

While the common thought is IPS panels are superior than VA and TN panels at producing color and overall image quality with the exception of contrast compared to VA, how would a VA panel with HDR compare to an IPS panel without?

 

[k1114]

VA is better than ips and tn. Ips is better than tn and va. Tn is better than ips and va. All of these statements are true when it relates to color reproduction, contrast, and overall image quality. There is so much overlap in capabilities of the panels yet people still generalize because they don't know better. This isn't anything new either. This has been like this for years. Focus on the panels' capabilities, not the panel type.

 

[Metro_2033_Fan]

Yes and certain panel types are more capable of certain things. Similarly certain tools are designed for certain jobs, I'm sure a heavy pipe wrench would make a good hammer, but that's not what it was designed for. Just stating there's overlap doesn't really address the issue. There very clearly is a difference if you compare the three types side by side. The question is what is most optimal?

 

[Metro_2033_Fan]

VA is better than ips and tn. Ips is better than tn and va. Tn is better than ips and va. All of these statements are true when it relates to color reproduction, contrast, and overall image quality. There is so much overlap in capabilities of the panels yet people still generalize because they don't know better. This isn't anything new either. This has been like this for years. Focus on the panels' capabilities, not the panel type.

Again, I'm not claiming one is ambiguously better than the other. I'm saying specifically at image color and brightness IPS typically is superior than VA and TN panels. I am NOT talking about refresh rate, response time, or contrast. While I'm sure if you threw almost $2,000 at any monitor it really wouldn't matter, for most people I'm not asking an unreasonable question.

 

[k1114]

Ok I'll generalize for minute. Ips is not typically better in color and brightness over va and tn, or even overall image quality as the original post claims. Most generalizations are misconceptions especially with va as people think it's an inbetween of ips and tn when it's not. Va typically has a higher color gamut and brightness is comparable of the panel types. Ips also typically has the infamous ips glow which also ruins image quality.

The fact that you the word "typically" was used by you points out that it's not always the case and you'd have to compare exact panels which is my point. You can't compare a wrench to a hammer when they are different tools. These are the same tools designed for the same purpose, in a sense comparing a 2020 camaro vs a 2010 camaro or 2020 mustang vs a 2020 camaro . The panels are developed at the same time by competitive companies or improvements over existing designs. I've seen tn+ panels that wipe the floor of even higher end pro lvl ips panels for color gamut and accuracy. I've seen ips with significantly better contrast than va.

Contrast is by far the highest influence of better image quality because it also affects color gamut so you should look at contrast when talking about image quality. It is typically the make or break for conforming to hdr standards. I never mentioned refresh rate or response times.

There needs to be some detail in stating hdr. Any company can slap on hdr yet be no different looking than a non hdr model. If the monitor was actually capable and conforms to a hdr standard like hdr10+ then regardless of panel type, the hdr10+ panel will look better. That means a tn hdr panel will make an ips panel look like a "tn." Back to my point of looking at panel capability not panel type. You can generalize all you want but it's a waste of time when actually comparing different monitors.

 

[Metro_2033_Fan]

Ok I'll generalize for minute. Ips is not typically better in color and brightness over va and tn, or even overall image quality as the original post claims. Most generalizations are misconceptions especially with va as people think it's an inbetween of ips and tn when it's not. Va typically has a higher color gamut and brightness is comparable of the panel types. Ips also typically has the infamous ips glow which also ruins image quality.

The fact that you the word "typically" was used by you points out that it's not always the case and you'd have to compare exact panels which is my point. You can't compare a wrench to a hammer when they are different tools. These are the same tools designed for the same purpose, in a sense comparing a 2020 camaro vs a 2010 camaro or 2020 mustang vs a 2020 camaro . The panels are developed at the same time by competitive companies or improvements over existing designs. I've seen tn+ panels that wipe the floor of even higher end pro lvl ips panels for color gamut and accuracy. I've seen ips with significantly better contrast than va.

Contrast is by far the highest influence of better image quality because it also affects color gamut so you should look at contrast when talking about image quality. It is typically the make or break for conforming to hdr standards. I never mentioned refresh rate or response times.

There needs to be some detail in stating hdr. Any company can slap on hdr yet be no different looking than a non hdr model. If the monitor was actually capable and conforms to a hdr standard like hdr10+ then regardless of panel type, the hdr10+ panel will look better. That means a tn hdr panel will make an ips panel look like a "tn." Back to my point of looking at panel capability not panel type. You can generalize all you want but it's a waste of time when actually comparing different monitors.

You're right about brightness, but by overall image quality I mean truer to life, which is correct when referring to color. You can try to nit pick what I'm saying but it's rather obvious what my point is. While you're position is generalizations aren't really useful anymore because the quantity of exceptions to the norm, I would argue it's still a good rule of thumb to go by do to the quirks each type of panel has when trying to accomplish the same capabilities typically associated with the others. Again, what is "optimal"? And yes as you have pointed out I used the word "typically" because I'm talking generally not in specifics. As for the pipe wrench analogy, I guess I'll state a ball ping hammer isn't the same as a sledgehammer, or hook hammer. There are you happy with that analogy? Also your statement about VAs typically having a higher color gamut isn't true either watch this hardware unboxed video where he compares a good sample size of the panels on the market.

View: https://youtu.be/1BM0P7J1EPM

 

[USAFRet]

A few years ago, I had a nice matched set of 23" HP IPS panels. Awesome color reproduction.

One died, replaced with an ASUS TN 24" panel.
Side by side, the ASUSTN blew the HP IPS panel away. In every possible aspect.
And this was with a hueyPro calibration tool.

Don't go by whatever letters may or may not be attached to the model name.
The individual monitor matters far more.

 

[k1114]

He didn't disprove me rather affirmed my position. He showed vioteks which I wouldn't suggest and talks about better samsungs being 120%. The pics compared similar price va 97% srgb, ips 96%, too close to matter, not the ips winning as you claim. And $400 va vs an $800 ips yet dcip3 90% vs 94% not too different for double the price. Only til you get to higher end panels would you see more ips. It's not the common case. You'd be talking about $1000+ monitors. Look at more commonly available monitors at the same price points and they will either have va being similar or better than ips.

 

[Metro_2033_Fan]

He didn't disprove me rather affirmed my position. He showed vioteks which I wouldn't suggest and talks about better samsungs being 120%. The pics compared similar price va 97% srgb, ips 96%, too close to matter, not the ips winning as you claim. And $400 va vs an $800 ips yet dcip3 90% vs 94% not too different for double the price. Only til you get to higher end panels would you see more ips. It's not the common case. You'd be talking about $1000+ monitors. Look at more commonly available monitors at the same price points and they will either have va being similar or better than ips.

I agree, but $400 VAs that have the same luxuries as $800 ips monitors, such as response time, resolution, and size typically lack quality control. As you stated you wouldn't suggest vioteks, but that's primarily the monitors that consume that price point, which have the same features as the $800 ips monitors.

If you can find a VA panel that's $400 or less and has the same features as the ASUS PG349Q I would be very appreciative.

 

[k1114]

I disagree. Those are viotek issues and most of the monitors available are definitely not viotek. They have the least amount as far as the US goes. A quick search of high end va monitors came up with 2 full pages of samsung, asus, acer, aoc, benq, msi, viewsonic before I saw a single viotek. The panels are coming from the same auo, samsung, or wherever other few factories. There are several reputable companies who have their own monitors with the same panel that are priced higher but more aligned to their segment because they do better qc.

 

[Metro_2033_Fan]

I disagree. Those are viotek issues and most of the monitors available are definitely not viotek. They have the least amount as far as the US goes. A quick search of high end va monitors came up with 2 full pages of samsung, asus, acer, aoc, benq, msi, viewsonic before I saw a single viotek. The panels are coming from the same auo, samsung, or wherever other few factories. There are several reputable companies who have their own monitors with the same panel that are priced higher but more aligned to their segment because they do better qc.

Bud if you can find a VA panel that has a 1ms response time, is 34 inches curved, 1440p, and has great reviews all for around $400 I will be more than happy to admit you're right. Until then please give it a rest.
Oh yeah, and high refresh rate.

 

[Metro_2033_Fan]

Here's an example of an Asus $430 dollar VA panel monitor, which still has the same issues with refresh rates as other VAs. Certain panels are just better at certain things.

View: https://youtu.be/gJqgWkRMiwY

 

[k1114]

I don't know what refresh rate issue it has unless you confused it with response times. But not once did I discuss these aspects since the discussion was about color and image quality.

That question has been answered already: regardless of panel type, a true hdr capable monitor will have better overall image quality.

 

[Metro_2033_Fan]

I don't know what refresh rate issue it has unless you confused it with response times. But not once did I discuss these aspects since the discussion was about color and image quality.

That question has been answered already: regardless of panel type, a true hdr capable monitor will have better overall image quality.

VA panels have issues with response time when clocked at higher refresh rates, so they go hand and hand. This will affect gameplay image quality because it will cause ghosting and motion blur. While the picture may look good still, in game quality will not be as great. Also true HDR that meet VESA standards is rather rare.

View: https://youtu.be/cgBzpYTn_8c

 

[k1114]

These are related but not the same thing. They are perfectly capable of higher hz but that has no say on what the response times will be. The image quality needs of high hz gaming is not the same as video or even high hz video, still images, or "normal" gaming. Hdr isn't mainstream but that's a different discussion.

 

[Metro_2033_Fan]

These are related but not the same thing. They are perfectly capable of higher hz but that has no say on what the response times will be. The image quality needs of high hz gaming is not the same as video or even high hz video, still images, or "normal" gaming. Hdr isn't mainstream but that's a different discussion.

Rewatch the second video I posted from Hardware Unboxed where he states the low response time bottlenecks the display from reaching a true 144hz.
It should be at 4:00 in the video.

 

[k1114]

I never watched it. I am fully aware of the implications of low response times but that doesn't mean it can't run 144hz. It just ghosts. You can ghost at 60hz too. It's not a high hz issue.