Warning - Shuttle K45 is bad product

[axelp]

Here is letter I send to Shuttle:

Dear ******

I have around 20 pc of Shuttle K45 bearebone out of 56 pc phurchased not working. The problem is same for all, no boot up, not even to Bios.

Problem PC are from two invoices; ******* and *******

Pls. Advice what to do.

Shuttle answer:

From: Magnus Bennette [mailto:magnusb@us.shuttle.com]
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 2:01 PM
To: **********
Cc: Nan Xing
Subject: Shuttle Tech Support

*******, (C# 161490)

Thank you for choosing Shuttle Computer Products.

It is a statistically impossibility for 20 machines to die at the same time unless there was some
sort of power surge on the line or something similar along those lines or somekind of monkeying around inside the machines.

If something like this, did, happen, then it could be one of the components. For the most part,
RAM problems are responsible for no POST. I’d suggest that the components on one of the bad
machine be tested on a known good machine to see if the problem is those are causing the issue.

The last thing we can do is to test one of those machine’s power supplies on a known good working
K45 to see if the good working machine POSTs (displays video). If it does not then maybe the issue
is with the power supply.

I can tell you that the K45 is a very reliable machine and it’s a statistical impossibility for 20 machines to go bad at the same time without some outside influence as I mentioned above.

I’m sure that the technician did this, but I’d recommend that the components inside a good and bad
machine are compared to find out if anything looks strange, such as components missing or something else.

Keep in mind that these machine’s are out of warranty, and for Out of Warranty Reapairs, we charge:

K45 Defective Motherboard  $55.00 + S&H
K45 Defective Power Supply  $55.00 + S&H
K45 Defective PSU & Mobo  $60.00 + S&H

The, above, price includes Labor & Parts for our customers.


My answer back to Shuttle:

Dear ******,

I read message from Shuttel, and they talk like I started in computer business yesterday. I have been importing computer parts to ****** since 1984 (that was for Mac‘s and I started importing PC short after birth of PC).

Out of 56pc of K45 ther is 20pc not working. In same location there is around 150 computers and 15 servers. No other equipment has this problems so this is not enviroment (frist thing I check).

I personally assabled all K45, so be sure there was no „monkeying“ inside the K45.

I‘m now using 8 years old Chenbro box and DFI mainboards in same location,, currently they have lower defect rate than K45.


Computers 101 (for Shuttle Technical Support people):

1. I take one K45 who is working fine, and one that is not working.
2. Then I take cpu, memory, HDD (all imported from *****) and power supply from working K45 to not working K45
3. Same results, K45 no Bios, black monitor.
4. I put cpu, memory, HDD and power supply back and workin K45 is still working
5. Yes, I try 3-5 K45 and I try in steps cpu, memory, HDD and power supply e.g. not all in once.


It is big news that 8 years old computers are working better than K45.

*******, you can see in other invoices for me what models I buy from Shuttle, other Shuttle barebones are working without a problem (same monkeyTecGuy ME)

I‘t is clear to me that K45 model has serious manufactoring problem, not found in Shuttle higer end models.

I demand from Shuttle to fix this problem.

Final answer fromm Shuttle:

they said it's over the 1year warranty. they offer the repair price on the email i forward to you.

 

[madvillain]

I wanted to add my two cents here. I love the idea of the Shuttle and the product is wonderfully designed. Unfortunately the K45 and the K48 have given me major problems in the business IT environment I oversee.

I put together about 10 shuttle systems (some k45, most k48) last year to use for users here at the office. They all had the same build: 160GB HD, 2GB Ram, Core Duo E5200 and DVD-RW drives. Out of the 10 or so, 4 of them have failed with the exact same problem the OP described, cannot POST and no video output from the board.

I swapped out ram, processors, even power supplies, and nothing fixed it. So in about 12 months nearly half the units are no longer in service.

It's strange because I have setup 3 SG31G2 shuttle's and haven't had any problems with them. I think this problem is probably more pronounced at the bottom end of their line.

That said, it's not long the board failure is that horrible of a cost. The components are fine and you can get the same socket boards for 50-100 bucks. It's really just a huge time sink for me though. I'm a one man IT dpt and I have better things to do then rebuild computers that I expected to last at least a couple years.

 

[Guest]

I bought 3 K45's and 2 K48's over a 2 year period. Of the 5, 3 have failed with bad motherboards. They went dead just as described above. The first was under warranty and was repaired by Shuttle. The second and third failures were not. On all of the failed motherboards there were from one to several electrolytic caps that were noticeably swelled.
I have heard much good about Shuttle in the past and that prompted me to buy the K45's and 48's, but the motherboards are junk.

Charlie

 

[CharlieGill]

I bought 3 K45's and 2 K48's over a 2 year period. Of the 5, 3 have failed with bad motherboards. They went dead just as described above. The first was under warranty and was repaired by Shuttle. The second and third failures were not. On all of the failed motherboards there were from one to several electrolytic caps that were noticeably swelled.
I have heard much good about Shuttle in the past and that prompted me to buy the K45's and 48's, but the motherboards are junk.

Charlie

A couple days after I wrote the above post, another K45 failed. I'll also note that one of the failed motherboards above turned out to be a power supply, so the final total is 2 bad motherboards and 2 bad power supplies (out of 5 units).

Charlie

 

[Guest]

Power supply changed month ago (original "burned") and now motherboard is broken (like described above). Last Shuttle product for me!

 

[geekademic]

Same here. Bad capacitor on the MB after 14 months of service (shuttle kpc k45). There's a class action lawsuit here. I'm not a happy consumer. Email me if you decide to take action as a group. Time sink. Word if the Day.

 

[rsaunar]

Same here. Bad capacitor on the MB after 14 months of service (shuttle kpc k45). There's a class action lawsuit here. I'm not a happy consumer. Email me if you decide to take action as a group. Time sink. Word if the Day.

Same here; various models. Based on early XPC experiences, I was very happy with these products.

Since then, SD, SDP2 & SG series all fail miserably after 12 months of service.

I have 6 out of 13 still in service. Most failed within 24 months.

SG's seem to hold out the longest. Remarkably, older P4 systems are still working.

 

[Guest]

I also purchased a KPC K45 barebones and had the same issue after 13 months. The issue is crappy capacitors. Try this out and it can save you some money.
http://us.shuttle.com/scgforum/tm.aspx?m=3212&mpage=1&key=&#3212

I would love to be a part of a class action suit as well.

 

[rdunaway62]

I also bought the K45 from one of my favorite electronics store I love to hate (It's a 4 letter word also and also starts with an F). The first mother board died. Before it died, I could smell what seemed to be FR4 or ceramic burning. I could not place where this was coming from. But the symptoms as were what were describe as above. NO POST. This was about a year after purchasing the bare-bones system (out of warranty). It took some time for the board to go bad and not boot at all.

Symptoms were as follows:

1. During restart, The BIOS would post over and over again. If you let it sit for about 5 minutes the system would get past the BIOS then boot.

I never thought about looking up information to see if there were manufacturing defects with this board, because I did not have it on a UPS at the time. I get a lot of brown outs at my house. This was brought to my attention after the MB failure.

2. After the system would pass post and the OS would load, the mouse worked about %50 of the time. If I rebooted the system, the system would again, go through post repeatedly over and over again. I eventually would have to completely shut the system down and wait for about 5-10 minutes. enoying to say the least.

3. I'm not sure what the ASIC is underneath the gold heat sink is. I think it is the south bridge??? I don't really care. I'm not sure, but that darn thing ran very, very hot. it was extremely warm to the touch. You could smell it cooking away.

Eventually this board failed. I ordered a replacement motherboard and a UPS. The system worked great up until the last week. I am writing this from that system. I'll explain why I say this in a second. I recycled the old board, so I can't go back and check to see if the caps blown. To bad.

In the last week or so I notice the faint smell of a ceramic or FR4 burning. I new it was this system, but I couldn't place where it was coming from. Since the heat sink on the GPU ASIC was running hot, I decided to add a fan on top of the heat sink. It now runs very cool. (Shuttle, please take this into consideration) about 60C (140F) measured after about 10 minutes running.

As I was writing this article the system shut down. It failed. I have several systems that I use. I don't usually us this system for searching the internet. This system has a specific use. So when it failed I had looked over at the system and saw a puff of smoke. This smoke was coming from the power supply. So I immediately unplugged the system. It was a good thing I was home. The darn thing could have caught fire.

I pulled the power supply out of the system and it was hot. Very hot, almost to hot to touch. When I first started smelling the Ceramic/FR4 burning, I had checked to see if the power supply was running hot. I touched it and it was warm, but not hot. This was about a week ago or so. Nothing that would make me suspect the power supply was going bad. I would check this from time to time during the last week trying to find out where the smell was coming from on this system.

I use this system for weather data and database information for my Home Automation. So you can imagine the importance of the role this system plays. I had a spare case with a 500 watt power supply I could pull out and use until I get a new one for this shuttle.

I own several shuttles but this one runs 24/7. I bought them for the small profile/foot print. So I figure about every year or so I should expect an issue with this system. That the record it's been so far.

The fact that I was able to use a temporary power supply and get this system back up to speed was very lucky. It allowed me to complete this document and continue to use the system for my home automation and weather data.

Now to order a new power supply from shuttle. When I ordered the replacement MB, it was a joke having to jump through the hoops. I had to fill out a request form and fax or e-mail it. I never got a repsonse back on if it was ordered or shipped. I ended up calling sales explaining to them was took place. The transferred me back to support. I was asked to fax or e-mail the request form again... And I said no. I asked "Why can't you just take the order over the phone while I have you on the line???" At that point I could hear the crickets chirping in the background on her end. She did end up taking my order over the phone and I got a new MB shipped to me in about 5 days.

 

[rdunaway62]

Here is and update since I've replaced the power supply with the temporary one.

I still smell the faint odor of FR4 burning. I've felt around the board and feel the IT8718F ASIC is running very warm. I added an aluminum heat sink it. This seems to have cooled it down a lot. Also seems to have stop another issue I was having at reboot. The large inductors next to the caps that everyone is replacing are very, very hot. And it was the GPU I had added the fan to.

I'm not overclocking this system at all, it is set up stock clock setting for this CPU running at 2.80 GHz. So there is no real reason for this MB to be running so hot (except that it is a POS).

Since this is a replacement board already, the caps that are on this board are a different then the caps everyone seems to be having problems with. So it looks as if Shuttle has dealt with the cap issue on this board.

I think that there is more to this issue then the caps being bad (poor quality) cap loaded on the original board. They may have been the weak link in the circuit, but I think that the issue causing the caps to blow still exist.

Also, I'm running speed fan now, I noticed that the -12V is way off according to the readings by Speed Fan. They show the -12V reading as -9.15V. I find this difficult to believe, but until I can get in here with a DMM, I wont know for sure. Sometime today or tomorrow I'll make measurements.

BTW, I did order a new(er) PSU for this. 200W Should be a little more sufficient. It arrives Monday.

I also started looking for a replacement MB for when it does go out. I feel it is just a matter of time now. Since the smell still exists. I just hope that if it catches fire, I'm home to shut the system off.

I've read about a few replacement boards from other manufactures in different forums and on the net, but no verification on if they actually fit in this case. Any suggestion or input on this???

Thank you
--
rdunaway62

 

[brycenesbitt]

The Granquist claim (a class action against shuttle) appears close to settling:
http://www.shuttlesettlement.com/

 

[drnick5]

i just came across this post. I USED to be a shuttle reseller. I have probably sold 20-30 AMD based shuttle rigs (mostly made from SN68SG2 barebones) and 10-15 intel barebones (using SG31G2) My shop had just opened when we started selling these units... so it really hurt my credibility as an It professional that more then half of the AMD units come back with a bad motherboard and a bunch with bad power supplys. the cost of a replacement motherboard is insane, my cost from shuttle was $150 plus shipping or so last I ordered one... if you can get one. (a few times they were out of stock and on some models, I was informed boars were no longer available) I've also had several power supplys die (these were $70 or so plus shipping..my cost) it just seemed to me that they used low quality parts

I had a K45 that I bought a few years ago doing nothing in my back room (still in original box!) I was going to try and turn it into a low power camera DVR. when i turned it on to format and install windows XP (it was running forsight linux) I heard a loud pop and could smell burning electronics... now it won't boot. I laughed and said "another quality shuttle product" this box had less then 10 hours of use on it.... pretty sad. These boxes were way ahead of their time, but I feel they cut corners to maximize profit. now I'd much rather buy a Mini ITX case and build around that. at least the parts are part of a standard (from what I've read mini itx boards won't fit in most shuttle cases)

I'd like to see some sort of class action against these units, but I looked on on the website but it does not seem to pertain to any of the barebone units I used..... figures...

 

[ashokr]

My K48 Shuttle suddenly quit working.. this is the 3rd failure.. i had 3 year warranty from Frys.. so i got the K48 in exchange for a K45.

I can see the bulging capacitor near the ATXI connector and the black square 1R2 on the mobo.

when i power on, i can see fans on box and processor rotate... then it shuts down immediately.

Visual inspection shows that cap bulging, but iam not able to read the value off the sides... could someone help

ashok

 

[ba-1983]

Had the same problem on a shuttle K45 here. After a couple of months without any problem what so ever, the system went crazy all of the sudden. I noticed the bulging capacitators next to the cpu and decided to temporarily underclock the system by lowering the multiplier from 11 to 6 (can't go any lower on this board). Though a lot slower and very frustrating, it'll have to do for now, as I'm waiting for the premade capacitator kit to arrive. I ordered it from badcaps; perhaps you could try asking them for advice.

 

[ashokr]

Thanks ba-1983. I ordered the same kit from Mouser.com... the prices are pretty cheap, and i got 2 kits from them which comes less than 1 from badcaps. List below in case someone needs part numbers.. the customer service is great.. simply call and give them the details for part numbers. Slightly unformated due to cut-paste.. but think you can figure it out for future. The numbers in 647 are the part numbers... waiting for my kit.. hopefully i can get this back live.. will keep you posted.

LineNo. Supplier Number Description QtyOrdered QtyShipped
1 647-UHE1A102MPD Nichicon Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded
10volts 1000uFUS HTS: 8532220020 ECCN:EAR99 COO:MY 8 8
2
1
647-UHE0J152MPD
Nichicon Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded
6.3volts 1500uF
US HTS: 8532220020 ECCN:EAR99 COO:MY 8 8
3
1
647-UHM0J182MPD6
Nichicon Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded
6.3volts 1800uF
US HTS: 8532220020 ECCN:EAR99 COO:MY 16 16
4
1
647-UHM1C182MPD
Nichicon Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded
16volts 1800uF
US HTS: 8532220020 ECCN:EAR99 COO:JP 4 4
1RoHS: Compliant

 

[ashokr]

Somehow iam not able to create account or post in the shuttle forms... once the registration is done, it say admin needs to approve. Well, dont think the forum moderator is really reading it there..

it was a bad capacitor.. 1000uf 10v right before the 4 pin power connector. Someone at work helped me replace it.. and voila... my K48 is all back in action.

 

[McBiter]

I wish I'd seen this series of posts earlier. I've used Shuttle exclusively over the last years in my office but the recent ones are just not good enough.

2 power supplies and finally I junked the machine and built an ASUS SFF and it's still running.
Stupidly I bought another newer model Shuttle whose performance in some areas is appalling and I'm here checking out the leads on Shuttle to perhaps replace it with a H67 based machine.

Love the box, love the idea but the reputation has been blown.

Why can't Shuttle supply new boards? I have 3 boxes I'm happy to re use, I'll even accept a new version of an old board but this is profligate waste in a green world.

I might add the service I've received in the UK is possibly the worst in the world. I have spent a fortune talking to sanctimonious punctillius jobs worths in Germany and I've had enough.

 

[Mousemonkey]

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey