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Auric__ wrote:
> I saw the first movie in theaters, right before I saw Star Wars Episode
> I: The Phantom Plotline. The Matrix ruined Star Wars for me. :/

How so? And wasn't the subtitle "The Phantom Menace"?

> The I-can't-spell-their-name Brothers

Wachowski. Wachowski. For the third time, Wachowski.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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On Sun, 15 May 2005 03:32:50 -0400, Twisted One
<twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:

>Auric__ wrote:
>> I saw the first movie in theaters, right before I saw Star Wars Episode
>> I: The Phantom Plotline. The Matrix ruined Star Wars for me. :/
>
>How so? And wasn't the subtitle "The Phantom Menace"?

Jar Jar Binks. 8-year-old Anakin. "I'm going to marry you someday." Yes.

>> The I-can't-spell-their-name Brothers
>
>Wachowski. Wachowski. For the third time, Wachowski.

You tell me three times, so it must be true? <g>
--
auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
*****
WIIGII!
 
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Auric__ wrote:
>>How so? And wasn't the subtitle "The Phantom Menace"?
>
> Jar Jar Binks. 8-year-old Anakin. "I'm going to marry you someday." Yes.

So what? The Matrix had a love subplot as well. And the original SW
movies had humor-oriented characters. C3PO comes to mind.

I think what critics of the prequels are missing can be summed up in
three words...

Harrison Ford.
Millennium Falcon.
Unconvoluted plot.

But The Prequels Are Not The Sequels (tm).

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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On Sun, 15 May 2005 04:49:00 -0400, Twisted One
<twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:

>Auric__ wrote:
>>>How so? And wasn't the subtitle "The Phantom Menace"?
>>
>> Jar Jar Binks. 8-year-old Anakin. "I'm going to marry you someday." Yes.
>
>So what? The Matrix had a love subplot as well.

It wasn't the fact of its existence, it's the way Lucas handled it.

>And the original SW
>movies had humor-oriented characters. C3PO comes to mind.

C3PO was in episode 1 - that's all the humor we need.

>I think what critics of the prequels are missing can be summed up in
>three words...

I rather liked episode 2, just not episode 1.

>Harrison Ford.

Since his character would need to be no older than his early teens (and
perhaps even younger) at the end of episode 3, that's not very likely,
especially in episode 1.

>Millennium Falcon.

Eh... it's a big freighter, not really suited to dogfighting and
whatnot.

>Unconvoluted plot.

I don't see that the prequels have overly complex plots.

>But The Prequels Are Not The Sequels (tm).

No, but I'm wondering if Lucas is going to want to remake them. ISTR
that he's already said he won't, but...
--
auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
*****
Monopoly? No, we just don't want competition.
-- Microsoft
 
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Milesss wrote:
> I like the "Jungle Adventure" theme, but I prefer realism. How can
> normal human dipped in some glowing green liquid mutate so quickly to
> super mutant, which is three times bigger (mass of substrates is equal
> to mass of products)?

Who said anything about mass? Think of a baloon. Those can get more than
three times bigger.

Of course, mass can get bigger over time by eating a lot. ("First comes
the ravenous hunger. Then come the disturbing changes...")

> What about caravans?

You try getting a caravan through jungle sometime.

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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"Twisted One" <twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
news:jfadnX2uXoYbZxvfRVn-3A@rogers.com...
> Nolithius wrote:
> > I'd like to do something like in Liberal Crime Squad, where there is
> > bodypart damage and really gory descriptions (You hit the Security
Guard's
> > head and totally BLOW IT APART.) har har, priceless.
>
> Where's the goriness there? I'd expect *at least* a description of the
> color of the skull fragments stuck to the wall behind the dead guard by
> brain matter. :)
>
> --
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
> Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
> "One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
> One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
>


Well, that's just a frame of reference. I want to achieve a much more
gritty/noir feel than that (mind you, it comes from a satirical game).

More details to follow 😉

--Nolithius
 
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Nolithius wrote:
> Well, that's just a frame of reference. I want to achieve a much more
> gritty/noir feel than that (mind you, it comes from a satirical game).

That might be difficult. (Why did you quote my .sig?)

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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Auric__ wrote:
> C3PO was in episode 1

For all of two minutes.

> Since his character would need to be no older than his early teens (and
> perhaps even younger) at the end of episode 3, that's not very likely,
> especially in episode 1.

True. I just think that's what a lot of people miss when they find the
prequels seem "un-Star-Warsish".

> I don't see that the prequels have overly complex plots.

No, but I think some critics do. Or overly subtle?

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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On Sun, 15 May 2005 09:47:00 -0400, Twisted One
<twisted0n3@gmail.invalid> wrote:

>Auric__ wrote:
>> C3PO was in episode 1
>
>For all of two minutes.

....which was more than enough. Except for the beginning of the original
movie, and the beginning of Return of the Jedi, there was no attempt to
make C3PO anything more than one of the "also-there" characters.

>> Since his character would need to be no older than his early teens (and
>> perhaps even younger) at the end of episode 3, that's not very likely,
>> especially in episode 1.
>
>True. I just think that's what a lot of people miss when they find the
>prequels seem "un-Star-Warsish".

As Lucas said when ep. 1 came out, the series isn't about Luke &
friends, it's about Anakin. [shrug] Ford wanted Han Solo to die in
Empire Strikes Back - and I think it would've worked just fine.

>> I don't see that the prequels have overly complex plots.
>
>No, but I think some critics do. Or overly subtle?

Feh. To paraphrase Lucas again, it's about the rise, fall, and
redemption of Anakin. Pretty straightforward IMO.
--
auric underscore underscore at hotmail dot com
*****
VIRUS NAME: ArmaGeddyLee, HappyOrMaybeNot00, OopsWrongButton00
TRANSMITTAL METHOD: VBScript attached to e-mail
HAZARD: Extremely Super High
AREA OF INFECTION: Detected in wild
CHARACTERISTICS: Destroys life on earth via nuclear armageddon
 
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Zillameth wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz w wiadomosci news:d650h2$kch$1@inews.gazeta.pl pisze,
> co nastepuje:
>
>> What is bad about Deus Ex 2? (I didn't play it, and as I really liked
>> the first game, I wondered wether to buy 2 :-/).
*snip*
> In other words, they turned a very good action-RPG hybrid into a very
> ordinary first person shooter.

Ugly :-(. And DeusEx 1 was brilliant IMHO...

> Pozdr.
> [1] SPOILER. The choices are: a fundamentalist totalitarian regime, two
> kinds of hidden enslavement and total extinction of humankind.

That's something I actually like ;-). There is no lesser evil ;-).
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"From what I've read, a lot of people believe that GenRogue
exists and will be released some day" -- Arxenia Xentrophore
 
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"R. Dan Henry" <danhenry@inreach.com> wrote in message
news:euse811q64en90qscnpigk5stt50tjfbq8@4ax.com...
[snip a great post]


Thanks a lot for your contribution and consolidation of contributions. Truly
a helpful and insightful post. If only all responses would be like this,
instead of degrading into discussions about StarWars or The Matrix.

Thanks a lot once again.

--Nolithius
 
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Milesss w wiadomo¶ci news:d673dc$j4j$1@news.interia.pl pisze, co
nastêpuje:


>> Nolithius w wiadomosci
>> news:SVihe.440$w21.129@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net pisze, co
>> nastepuje:
>
> :)
>

We are everywhere. Our numbers are growing. Each year there are more and
more of us lurking in the depths of Usenet. Each day another one is added to
our ranks. We will prevail, eventually. One day we will take over rgrd, rgr*
and all of the Usenet!

[Insert some devillish laughter here.]

> I like the "Jungle Adventure" theme, but I prefer realism. How can normal
> human dipped in some glowing green liquid mutate so quickly to super
> mutant, which is three times bigger (mass of substrates is equal to mass
> of products)?
>

Hmmm, I guess we could ask that question to Fallout devteam. Seriously,
though, I don't think this needs to be instant. It could take a few years,
or even generations, why not? I said "a matter of months" previously, but
this assumption can be relaxed.

I think there is possibility to make two different games. One of them could
take place during the disaster. The player could witness everything falling
apart. The other game could take place after 30 or 40 years, when the global
situation is more or less stable again, but also very different from today.

>
> I think that the most dungeon-like city part are sewers. Especially these
> old.
>

I think you're right, but old houses aren't all that different either (only
more vertical). I used to live in a pre-WWII villa turned into tenement
house. It was a small child's paradise, especially the garden and the
basement.

>>
>> The only viable way of mass inter-municipal transit would be the railway.
>> Air travel's popularity would be limited by fuel cost. So, the trains
>> would be very important and railway companies would become very powerful.
>> The private railway security force would be probably the largest and best
>> army in the area, because they would be engaged in constant struggle to
>> keep railways safe from wildlife.
>>
>
> What about caravans?
>

Going on foot would take too much time and would be too dangerous. Going by
car would be very difficult, or even impossible, due to poor state of road
network. A train, especially a technologically advanced one, is very fast,
and thus relatively safe. You can also load lots of cargo on a single train,
making it easier to defend. Now that I think of it, a train is, actually, a
kind of caravan. 🙂

> [...]
>
>> 5. Mechs! 3-legged, 4-legged and 6-legged mechs! I think mechs are like
>> tables - you can't make a 2-legged table and expect it not to topple.
>>
> I have seen 1-legged table too :) (jumping mechs?).
>

ROTFL. :-D If I ever make a cyberpunk parody, I'm going to include 1-legged
mechs. You are hereby granted the right to beat me 256 times with a LAN
cable, if I forget to give you the credit.

Pozdr.

--
Jacek "Zillameth" Weso³owski
zill@jimp.neostrada.pl
"[...]certane substinsays can be appleyed to rmur to countervoid
the effects of poyzins used by an oponunt."
 
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R. Dan Henry wrote:
> Movies:
> Blade Runner
> Minority Report
> The Fifth Element
> The Matrix
> Tron
> Robocop (and sequels)
> Avalon
> Ghost in the Shell
> Animatrix
> Tetsuo 2: Body Hammer

Aaah, and how about "Akira"? ;-)
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"It's much easier to make an army of dumb good people than to
make one single smart good guy..." -- DarkGod
 
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Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Aaah, and how about "Akira"? ;-)

As in Fubuki? Yeah she's kinda hot. Uh, what was the topic again?

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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Twisted One wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> Aaah, and how about "Akira"? ;-)
>
>
> As in Fubuki? Yeah she's kinda hot. Uh, what was the topic again?

Nah, the Akira anime movie ;-). But I guess, you're completely
antimangish, so you wouldn't know ;-)
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"It's much easier to make an army of dumb good people than to
make one single smart good guy..." -- DarkGod
 
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Dnia Sun, 15 May 2005 20:24:32 +0200,
Zillameth napisal(a):

> Milesss w wiadomo¶ci news:d673dc$j4j$1@news.interia.pl pisze, co
> nastêpuje:

> ROTFL. :-D If I ever make a cyberpunk parody, I'm going to include 1-legged
> mechs. You are hereby granted the right to beat me 256 times with a LAN
> cable, if I forget to give you the credit.

Copper or BNC?
Maybe fiberoptics? Ouch, that *hurts*! 😉

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
 
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Dnia Sun, 15 May 2005 11:39:16 -0700,
R Dan Henry napisal(a):

> Performance-enhancing drugs that have a cumulative
> deterioration effect. "live now, pay later..."

You can have it as potions, pills, iniections, etc. but I think the most
cuberpunkish and cool options is to have them in form of derms and
inhalers.

> Literature:
> Neuromancer (Gibson)
> Count Zero (Gibson)
> Mona Lisa Overdrive (Gibson)
> Snow Crash (Stephenson)
> The Diamond Age (Stephenson)
> Tekwar series ("Shatner", later TV show, computer game)
> "Altered Carbon" by Richard Morgan

More Gibson's books!

I'd add some manga. Definitely cyberpunkish:
Ghost in the Shell
GITS 2 - Man-machine interface

Great source for modern and future combat and weapons:
Appleseed, Black Magic
Battle Angel Alita, GUNNM - Last Order, Ashen Victor
Blame!, Noise, Biomega
Syrius Scars
Eden
Red Eyes

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
 
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The Sheep w wiadomo¶ci news:slrnd8gmiq.7vf.sheep@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl
pisze, co nastêpuje:

>
> Copper or BNC?
> Maybe fiberoptics? Ouch, that *hurts*! 😉
>

Well, since making that cyberpunk parody may take anywhere from 2 to 50
years and technology can change several times until then, I guess it's
better to leave that question open. My back is already aching. ;-)

Pozdr.

--
Jacek "Zillameth" Weso³owski
zill@jimp.neostrada.pl
FAQ grupy prgk.rpg - http://faq.prgk.net/rpg.txt
"Sometimes you have to, uh, break up the team - Carlsson & Peters, p824"
 
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On Sat, 14 May 2005, Ray Dillinger wrote:
> Nolithius wrote:
>> "Unable to find thread. Please recheck the URL"
>
> Grrr. A munged version can be viewed at:
<snip>

You shoulda done what it said --- recheck the URL. 😉 Removing
the extraneous '%' yields the correct Message-ID:
ltUZc.11729$54.162254@typhoon.sonic.net
and accompanying URL
http://groups.google.es/groups?threadm=ltUZc.11729$54.162254@typhoon.sonic.net

HTH,
-Arthur
--
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~ajo/dont-be-evil.html#newcontent
 
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Quoting Auric__ <not.my.real@email.address>:
>Superman(tm)!" And a 3-minute fight scene (in the park, against the
>Smiths) that was mostly computer-generated and should have taken less
>than 30 seconds.

The only reason it wasn't worse was that Keanu Reeves is so incredibly
wooden you can't tell him from a CGI Reeves very easily.

Kill Bill, now, that's how to do a fight with a hundred bad guys.

>The I-can't-spell-their-name Brothers should have
>stopped with the first movie and gone on to something else, like anime,
>where their computer-generated stuff would've been appreciated.

Pfft - speaking as a fanboy, the last thing I want is more of that Gonzo
[1] plasticy psuedo-real CGI; what I want is stuff like FLCL where no one
frame is distinguishable from cel animation...

[1] A studio, nothing to do with HST.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Gloucesterday, May.
 
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Quoting Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl>:
>Add in Ghost In The Shell -- a must see. And Avalon.

Serial Experiments Lain, for something recognisably cyberpunky without the
usual Gibsonian drivel.

[And, heh-heh, Bubblegum Crisis - I'll recommend classic, and you can
recommend 2040...]
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Gloucesterday, May.
 
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Quoting Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl>:
>Aaah, and how about "Akira"? ;-)

It's grossly overrated - and everyone's seen it, because it's grossly
overrated. 🙂
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Gloucesterday, May.
 
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On Sun, 15 May 2005, Twisted One wrote:
>
> Nolithius wrote:
>> I'd like to do something like in Liberal Crime Squad, where there is
>> bodypart damage and really gory descriptions (You hit the Security Guard's
>> head and totally BLOW IT APART.) har har, priceless.
>
> Where's the goriness there? I'd expect *at least* a description of the color
> of the skull fragments stuck to the wall behind the dead guard by brain
> matter. :)

One of the defining aspects of (good) cyberpunk literature, IMHO, and
speaking only of English-language literature --- I don't know how it
might have mutated in other languages --- is the cleverness of the
descriptions. It's not so much /gore/ as /metaphor/ and /detail/. For
example,

>> You hit the Security Guard's head and totally BLOW IT APART.

might become

You squeeze the trigger. There is a noise like a fat lady stepping
on a frog, and suddenly the security guard's head is plastered
over a square meter of wall.

or

With a pop, some kind of spidery crimson rune appears on the guard's
forehead. Before you can look closer, he collapses in a heap and the
rune starts a slow drip onto the 3/16-gauge polyester weave.[1]

Now, I'm not denying that "totally BLOW IT APART" couldn't find a
place in a cyberpunk narrative (skater-punk?). ;-) But I think it
would be incredibly difficult to translate this aspect of cyberpunk
to roguelike terms --- instead of merely having William Gibson or
Neal Stephenson be cleverer than the reader, you'd have to have the
/game/ be cleverer than the reader, and replayably. That's tricky.

You might be able to pull off something like the old "Colossal Cave"
adventure with its Volcano View: find some event or location that the
player is likely to reach about once per game, and stick the clever
bits there. E.g., the first time the player gets in his ultrasleek-
yet-unapologetic car, say something clever. When he meets a unique NPC,
say something clever. Et cetera.

my $.02,
-Arthur

[1] - There is a surprising lack of technical carpeting terminology
on the Web. I take no responsibility for mental anguish caused by
my too-ambitious prose.
 
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David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl>:
>
>>Aaah, and how about "Akira"? ;-)
>
> It's grossly overrated - and everyone's seen it, because it's grossly
> overrated. 🙂

Why do you think so? I enjoyed it...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"The name of GenRogue, has become a warning against excessively
complex design." -- RGRD FAQ
 
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Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote:
>David Damerell wrote:
>> Quoting Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl>:
>>
>>>Aaah, and how about "Akira"? ;-)
>>
>> It's grossly overrated - and everyone's seen it, because it's grossly
>> overrated. 🙂
>
>Why do you think so? I enjoyed it...

I *enjoyed* Akira, but I agree that it's grossly overrated. There are
armies of wannabe fanboys out there who've seen Akira, Dragonball Z, and
Urotsukidoji and on this basis proclaim Akira to be TEH BEST THNIG
EVAH!!!!11!!!one, which it patently isn't.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.html
bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce bounce bounce bounce.