What's the use of "n" and "nn" in dungeons...

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Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've never
met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the items to roll.
As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn" for "need not" -
right?

What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can simply
roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll. Why should I
type n or nn instead?

I know it might be useful to clarify some things before going into
battle... for example that all wool is for X and all diamonds are for Y.

But what's that part with n and nn useful for?

--
Daniel Bleisteiner
....spielt WoW mit Mirandir (Dunkelelf-Jäger 24)
....und Krishnak (Ork-Schurke 19) auf Aman'Thul!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

u post n for need and g for "greed" i think...
u post it, cause if all dont need (so "g") all roll... if u just pass
roll (and all do) the first looter gets it...
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

maxnew...@web.de a écrit :
> u post n for need and g for "greed" i think...
> u post it, cause if all dont need (so "g") all roll... if u just pass
> roll (and all do) the first looter gets it...

n = need
g = greed (= v = vendor)

When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.

There are a number of other loot rule systems that you will discover
later, but this one seems to be commonly accepted (on my server, horde
side at least).
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Thats what i meant... If all pass the item gets in "free to loot"
status and first one clickin CAN get item... If u r in group u usually
play with (or guildmembers etc.) that doesnt matter... but if u dont
know the others its better to go save way and just type "n" or "g" and
then decide to roll... like this everybody gets what he need.
sure.. someone that dont need and roll anyway (and roll higher than the
one that need) will get item the difference is:
In "free loot" the person could say "oh... im sorry.. was mistake... im
so sorry..." and u dont know if he is really sorry AND lost the item.
In "n" and "g": the person that dont need roll and perhaps he dont roll
as high as the one that need... so u can blame him without loosing the
item. if he do a 2nd time, kick him out of group.
In first case u loose 2 items before u can be sure that he is a
"ninja"...
 
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Why not just use the 'Need before greed' loot option from the game?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

> If everyone does it smoothly, then *no-one* has to "decide after
> some seconds of waiting" - you just watch for 5 'g's to appear in
> the log, and then hit the dice icon. Simple. If even a single 'n'
> appears, you hit the pass icon. what could be more easy?

A simple, effective solution.

Which explains why I've never seen it on Stormrage. :-D

Regards,
Noal

--
Dharzhak - Night Elf Druid (60) on Stormrage [PvE]
Kemwer - Tauren Warrior (34) on Stormrage [PvE]
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

I don't understand, what's wrong with that? I'd rather have that than
just random on all greens, mages don't get the swords and warriors
don't get the wands, what's the problem?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Daniel Bleisteiner" <news@da3x.de> wrote in message
news😱p.sstb3vx0mcs9m0@phoenix...
> Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've never
> met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the items to roll.
> As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn" for "need not" -
> right?
>
> What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can simply
> roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll. Why should I
> type n or nn instead?
>
> I know it might be useful to clarify some things before going into
> battle... for example that all wool is for X and all diamonds are for Y.
>
> But what's that part with n and nn useful for?
>
> --
> Daniel Bleisteiner
> ...spielt WoW mit Mirandir (Dunkelelf-Jäger 24)
> ...und Krishnak (Ork-Schurke 19) auf Aman'Thul!

It's useful for Bind on Pickup items. We (my usual group) follow these
rules:

1. Bind on Equip items: All roll, sort it out later
2. Bind on Pickup: ALL PASS! State need or greed. If only 1 needs, then it's
theirs, otherwise roll off between the needy. If no-one needs, all roll for
greed.
3. Need = Better than current kit, and will be used. Dis-enchanting is Greed
4. Classes have 1st dibs on class specific items

I have a macro that I can spam out the rules with, and use it when the group
forms, and usually before the 1st loot boss, if I know it's coming. It stops
arguments happening about rolling 'after' the item has been won and
soulbound. Also, people need reminding when that lovely purple item drops,
and the players get the 'purple haze'. 🙂
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

>> 1. Bind on Equip items: All roll, sort it out later
>> 2. Bind on Pickup: ALL PASS! State need or greed. If only 1 needs, then it's
>> theirs, otherwise roll off between the needy. If no-one needs, all roll for
>> greed.
>
> Raid rules are many times different from this.

Not by much.

Everyone gets one blue, one set item and one quest item (Pristine Hide,
Frayed Abomination Stitching, etc.). (sometimes it's one blue or one
set item.) Green BoPs count as blues for this purpose. Once you've got
your quota, you don't roll dice anymore.
Everyone rolls on all green BoEs.
If everybody passes, everyone uses /random to determine the winner.
Once that's done, the winner loots, someone else loots and DEs for
them, or (rarely) someone offers to buy the item from the winner.

Regards,
Noal

--
Dharzhak - Night Elf Druid (60) on Stormrage [PvE]
Kemwer - Tauren Warrior (34) on Stormrage [PvE]
 
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Alex wrote:
> "Daniel Bleisteiner" <news@da3x.de> wrote in message
> news😱p.sstb3vx0mcs9m0@phoenix...
>
>>Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've never
>>met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the items to roll.
>>As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn" for "need not" -
>>right?
>>
>>What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can simply
>>roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll. Why should I
>>type n or nn instead?
>>
>>I know it might be useful to clarify some things before going into
>>battle... for example that all wool is for X and all diamonds are for Y.
>>
>>But what's that part with n and nn useful for?
>>
>>--
>>Daniel Bleisteiner
>>...spielt WoW mit Mirandir (Dunkelelf-Jäger 24)
>>...und Krishnak (Ork-Schurke 19) auf Aman'Thul!
>
>
> It's useful for Bind on Pickup items. We (my usual group) follow these
> rules:

Your rules are close to what I've seen, too. Although, in high-level
raid instances, the rules are different, for several reasons (there are
lots more people; the raids take multiple hours to complete, and people
want things to move along efficiently; people are *very* invested in the
particular things they are trying to get, to the tune of many many hours
of effort and big piles of gold in expenses; and so on).

> 1. Bind on Equip items: All roll, sort it out later
> 2. Bind on Pickup: ALL PASS! State need or greed. If only 1 needs, then it's
> theirs, otherwise roll off between the needy. If no-one needs, all roll for
> greed.

Raid rules are many times different from this. I've seen various
schemes, but generally they are intended to make things fast without
pissing people off. With a lot of people in a long instance run, n/g
looting is often seen as too time-consuming.

> 3. Need = Better than current kit, and will be used. Dis-enchanting is Greed

That's what I'm used to, where "will be used" means you are going to
equip and use it *right now*. Otherwise, it's greed.

> 4. Classes have 1st dibs on class specific items

Yes, though I have seen some rather dumb controversies over exactly what
the words "class specific" mean. You can argue that it means sets like
Valor and Magister's; on the other hand, I've seen people argue in all
apparent sincerity that a cloth-wearer should not be allowed to roll on
a cloak that has a stamina buff.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

>
> 1. Bind on Equip items: All roll, sort it out later
> 2. Bind on Pickup: ALL PASS! State need or greed. If only 1 needs, then
> it's theirs, otherwise roll off between the needy. If no-one needs, all
> roll for greed.
> 3. Need = Better than current kit, and will be used. Dis-enchanting is
> Greed
> 4. Classes have 1st dibs on class specific items
>
> I have a macro that I can spam out the rules with, and use it when the
> group forms, and usually before the 1st loot boss, if I know it's coming.
> It stops arguments happening about rolling 'after' the item has been won
> and soulbound. Also, people need reminding when that lovely purple item
> drops, and the players get the 'purple haze'. 🙂
>

Oh, and I forgot one rule: "No looting in Combat." Not only is it rude to be
looting and not helping, it's distracting.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On 2005-06-23 09:51:21 +0200, "Daniel Bleisteiner" <news@da3x.de> said:

> Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've
> never met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the
> items to roll. As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn"
> for "need not" - right?
>
> What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can
> simply roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll.
> Why should I type n or nn instead?
>
> I know it might be useful to clarify some things before going into
> battle... for example that all wool is for X and all diamonds are for Y.
>
> But what's that part with n and nn useful for?

For starters I think nn is confusing, and we tend to use 'g', which
means 'greed'. This explains the reason for typing a bit. Fact is noone
rolls if they don't need, but after a while, a lot of items may drop
that noone needs. In that case you can do a greed roll, where the
highest rolls gets the item for the purpose of
selling/auctioning/disenchanting it.

In our guild we use the following rules:
- Bind on Equip: Everybody rolls *always* and if someone needs the
item, we trade it after the roll.
- Bind on Pickup: Everybody states n or g. All the n's roll. If noone
needs, everyone rolls.

On Guild Raids we use Master Looter.
--
http://www.new-roots.com/
Nerghal - Undead Warlock lvl 55 - Bloodscalp EU
Gwar - Orcish Warrior lvl 10 - Bloodscalp EU
Chasey - Undead Priest lvl 19 - Bloodscalp EU
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:23:09 +0200, <maxnews01@web.de> wrote:
> u post n for need and g for "greed" i think...
> u post it, cause if all dont need (so "g") all roll... if u just pass
> roll (and all do) the first looter gets it...

So the only use is to roll for it if nobody really needs it. If one needs
it he/she could simply roll for it... there is no need to say "n". And
what the hell is wrong if the looter gets it if nobody else wants it? I
still don't see any use for that chatting so far. I'd really prefer to
simply roll or pass.

--
Daniel Bleisteiner
....spielt WoW mit Mirandir (Dunkelelf-Jäger 24)
....und Krishnak (Ork-Schurke 19) auf Aman'Thul!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:51:21 +0200, "Daniel Bleisteiner"
<news@da3x.de> wrote:

>Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've never
>met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the items to roll.
>As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn" for "need not" -
>right?

Right, even though I've never seen "nn" being used before - we always
use "g" (greed) or "v" (vendor). That way you can go "nn" or "gg" if
several eg. two items drop at the same time.

>What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can simply
>roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll. Why should I
>type n or nn instead?

Some times you wind up with players going "if he doesn't want, then I
could use it", that thing is hard to do with the roll/pass mechanic.
But mostly it is just because everybody know that system...

Of course, if you can think up a better system, then feel free to
suggest it to those you play with. I used to use the "roll if you
need, pass if you don't - all pass = do /roll for greed roll", but
then everybody started using the n/g system and it was just easier to
go with that instead of trying to convince everybody else.

Then after I got to the higher levels and started to raid BRS, Scholo,
and Strat the rules changed to "all pass on blue and BoP, then we talk
about it" - for green BoE it is either all roll or the group loot
threshold is simply set to blue so you just pick green items up (it is
faster + if you need you can just ask for it).

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:33:12 +0200, Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
> who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
> when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.

That are some more bits of information... ok... but why can't those
vendors not simply pass after seeing that others have rolled? You can
allways see if someone rolls or passes and decide after some seconds of
waiting. I still find it rather complicated to leave my mouse and hit the
chat keys.

--
Daniel Bleisteiner
....spielt WoW mit Mirandir (Dunkelelf-Jäger 24)
....und Krishnak (Ork-Schurke 19) auf Aman'Thul!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

In article <op.sstegegomcs9m0@phoenix>, Daniel Bleisteiner
<news@da3x.de> wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:33:12 +0200, Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
> > who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
> > when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.
>
> That are some more bits of information... ok... but why can't those
> vendors not simply pass after seeing that others have rolled? You can
> allways see if someone rolls or passes and decide after some seconds of
> waiting. I still find it rather complicated to leave my mouse and hit the
> chat keys.

Oh come on - you must use other keys all the time! And surely you must
talk to your party as well.. what's complicated about hitting 'Enter G
Enter'?

If everyone does it smoothly, then *no-one* has to "decide after some
seconds of waiting" - you just watch for 5 'g's to appear in the log,
and then hit the dice icon. Simple. If even a single 'n' appears, you
hit the pass icon. what could be more easy?

Since *everyone* can use *every* item (by selling it), this system
avoids people having to miss out on profit that the rest of the party
who do roll will get anyway.

___
Neil
aka HighVis
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Daniel Bleisteiner wrote:
> Recently I've played my first dungeon with four other players I've
> never met before. I had to learn to use n and nn depending on the items
> to roll. As far as I understood "n" stands for "need" and "nn" for
> "need not" - right?
>
> What's this useful for? If someone wants a certain item he/she can
> simply roll the dice. Players not interested in it cancel the roll. Why
> should I type n or nn instead?
>
> I know it might be useful to clarify some things before going into
> battle... for example that all wool is for X and all diamonds are for Y.
>
> But what's that part with n and nn useful for?
>

We use "N" ( need ) and "V" ( vend ).
I verybody types "V" you just roll.

Sometimes we agree to just all roll on anything that isn't bop ( Bind on
pickup ) and use n/v on items that are bop.

And then again sometimes you will use the term "Ninja".
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Daniel Bleisteiner wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:33:12 +0200, Babe Bridou
> <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
>> who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
>> when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.
>
>
> That are some more bits of information... ok... but why can't those
> vendors not simply pass after seeing that others have rolled? You can
> allways see if someone rolls or passes and decide after some seconds of
> waiting. I still find it rather complicated to leave my mouse and hit
> the chat keys.
>

It really works better if everyone types n or v or whatever before they
roll. That way you can see who's a ninja. I everyone says "v" you all r
oll. If someone says N, you either roll if you need it as well, or pass.

Another rule I like to request is that no one loots any corpse untill
the fight is over. Then you will have enough time to type.
Plus it's really annoying when the roll window appears over my bars in
combat.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Azeus" <IFARTINYOURGENERALDIRECTION@MP.com> wrote in message
news:d9dt7e$9th$1@news.cistron.nl...
> Daniel Bleisteiner wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:33:12 +0200, Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
>>> who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
>>> when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.
>>
>>
>> That are some more bits of information... ok... but why can't those
>> vendors not simply pass after seeing that others have rolled? You can
>> allways see if someone rolls or passes and decide after some seconds of
>> waiting. I still find it rather complicated to leave my mouse and hit the
>> chat keys.
>>
>
> It really works better if everyone types n or v or whatever before they
> roll. That way you can see who's a ninja. I everyone says "v" you all r
> oll. If someone says N, you either roll if you need it as well, or pass.
>
> Another rule I like to request is that no one loots any corpse untill the
> fight is over. Then you will have enough time to type.
> Plus it's really annoying when the roll window appears over my bars in
> combat.

V?

I understand g but v?

v - verilly I want this?
 
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On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:34:46 +0200, "Daniel Bleisteiner"
<news@da3x.de> wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:23:09 +0200, <maxnews01@web.de> wrote:

>>if u just pass
>> roll (and all do) the first looter gets it...

No, this is not correct. If everybody passes it stays on the corpse
and anybody in the group can loot it - at least that is how it works
in group loot.

>So the only use is to roll for it if nobody really needs it. If one needs
>it he/she could simply roll for it... there is no need to say "n". And
>what the hell is wrong if the looter gets it if nobody else wants it?

In group loot, if a corpse has an item at or above the loot threshold,
everybody in the group can loot it - only the one whose turn it is can
grab the trash on the mob, but everybody else can loot in order to pop
up the roll/pass box (and grab any money which then gets split).

If anybody rolls, the winner gets the item awarded into his/her
inventory, if nobody rolls the item stays on the corpse (and it really
wouldn't be fair to just award it to the first to loot the corpse,
since everybody can and it then would turn into one big ninja-fest).


Lastly, imagine if nobody needs 80% of the items that drop (not
uncommon later on) - what you need then is a method that speeds up the
"all pass" situation, and typing n/g then rolling if appropriate is
pretty fast for that.
But again, if you can find a better way then feel free to do so - most
don't care about the method, they just want their loot fair and
fast...

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:51:58 +0200, Azeus
<IFARTINYOURGENERALDIRECTION@MP.com> wrote:
> It really works better if everyone types n or v or whatever before they
> roll. That way you can see who's a ninja. I everyone says "v" you all r
> oll. If someone says N, you either roll if you need it as well, or pass.

So it's primarily to separate the needs from the greeds... need has a
higher priority and should be allowed to complete though. Ok, I got it.

And of course the corpses will be lootet only if no other enemy is still
alive. If someone ignores that rule he/she is propably allready identified
as ninja looter :)

Thanks to all for those infos. I think I finally see some sense in it.

--
Daniel Bleisteiner
....spielt WoW mit Mirandir (Dunkelelf-Jäger 24)
....und Krishnak (Ork-Schurke 19) auf Aman'Thul!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Ah gotcha, so it's just a stupid codification. Just because a warrior
"can" use cloth shouldn't mean they should get cloth armor. They
should have implemented it better, that's just stupid coding.
I mean, NBG can be complicated or impossible to code to cover every
single item, like the sword you mentioned which is obviously a caster
item (didn't know mages could learn 1handed sword). But it could be
better implemented: cloth goes to casters, leather goes to
rogues/druids/shaman (until shaman gets mail), mail goes to
warriors/paladins/shaman (after shaman gets mail).
A little more complicated on ranged weapons, as many classes can use
them, although it's only a primary weapon for hunters.

Now I see why NBG in WoW must be done manually.
 
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On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:51:58 +0200, Azeus
<IFARTINYOURGENERALDIRECTION@MP.com> wrote:

>Another rule I like to request is that no one loots any corpse untill
>the fight is over. Then you will have enough time to type.
>Plus it's really annoying when the roll window appears over my bars in
>combat.

Oh yes, people who loot in combat... 😡

Sometimes it happens by accident and you just have to accept that, but
if people makes a habit of it they deserve a /slap.

There is an extra loot rule; if a box pops up in combat you _pass_ and
sort it out later.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Simon Nejmann ytrede sig i <e0vkb194s549apg1ljp1ec1ttsho4j4pdg@4ax.com>
med dette:

>On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:51:58 +0200, Azeus
><IFARTINYOURGENERALDIRECTION@MP.com> wrote:
>
>>Another rule I like to request is that no one loots any corpse untill
>>the fight is over. Then you will have enough time to type.
>>Plus it's really annoying when the roll window appears over my bars in
>>combat.
>
>Oh yes, people who loot in combat... 😡
>
>Sometimes it happens by accident and you just have to accept that, but
>if people makes a habit of it they deserve a /slap.
>
>There is an extra loot rule; if a box pops up in combat you _pass_ and
>sort it out later.

I usually say from the start, that I roll on anything if it's during
combat.

In my guild it's quite normal for all to roll on BoE, and then sort it
out later, because it works much faster this way.

For BoP it's the usual n or g.

It does give some problems when picking up one or two randoms for an
instance, if they don't like our way, but it's pretty rare.
--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Kav wrote:
> "Azeus" <IFARTINYOURGENERALDIRECTION@MP.com> wrote in message
> news:d9dt7e$9th$1@news.cistron.nl...
>
>>Daniel Bleisteiner wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:33:12 +0200, Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>When a roll window appears, those who need it type "n" so that those
>>>>who greed it can have the opportunity to pass. "nn" is generally used
>>>>when two roll windows appear, to inform others that you need both.
>>>
>>>
>>>That are some more bits of information... ok... but why can't those
>>>vendors not simply pass after seeing that others have rolled? You can
>>>allways see if someone rolls or passes and decide after some seconds of
>>>waiting. I still find it rather complicated to leave my mouse and hit the
>>>chat keys.
>>>
>>
>>It really works better if everyone types n or v or whatever before they
>>roll. That way you can see who's a ninja. I everyone says "v" you all r
>>oll. If someone says N, you either roll if you need it as well, or pass.
>>
>>Another rule I like to request is that no one loots any corpse untill the
>>fight is over. Then you will have enough time to type.
>>Plus it's really annoying when the roll window appears over my bars in
>>combat.
>
>
> V?
>
> I understand g but v?
>
> v - verilly I want this?
>
>

v=g

Vant to sell :)..
on my server people use the v for vendor trash.
 
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