I tested overclocking my tnt2 and was pretty happy with the initial results. Before I go too crazy I'd like to know what temperatures are acceptable for a tnt2 to run at. My tnt2 is a non-ultra and has no fan on the heatsink. I overlocked to 150/180 and after running 3dmark I tested the temp and it was around 35-38 degrees. Is that ok? At what temp should I be wary of?
The mem temp isn't anywhere near the temp of the heat sink. 150/180 runs too unstable so I put it at 140/170. This reduced my score to 2463 but that isn't that much when you consider it will run safely now.
I got my 20in house fan out and put it right next to my open case on high. On low setting it hardly makes more noise than the computer did with out it but at high the wind speed triples but so does the noise.
Now when running my vid card at that speed it runs at about 30 degrees. Even at these temps it doesn't want to run at 150/180 so I guess that is the max the chip will go.
I got my 20in house fan out and put it right next to my open case on high. On low setting it hardly makes more noise than the computer did with out it but at high the wind speed triples but so does the noise.
Now when running my vid card at that speed it runs at about 30 degrees. Even at these temps it doesn't want to run at 150/180 so I guess that is the max the chip will go.
Red_Zealot
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- Feb 2, 2001
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The temperature of the video card, quite honestly, doesn't matter. The effective life of a gaming video card is, at most, about 2 years, meaning that any great destruction of card life doesn't mean that much. Run your card at the fastest it will go with perfect display. If you start getting things on your screen, turn it down. You can reduce the temps and thus (maybe) get a higher score through use of ramsinks and more fans, but only if you can OC it more. The actual temp doesn't matter.
"If you teach a child to read, then he or her will be able to pass a literacy test" - George W.
"If you teach a child to read, then he or her will be able to pass a literacy test" - George W.
yeah, I've noticed that. I got the thing running at least 10 degrees lower at full load but still wouldn't post faster, just the limit for that chip.
igottaknife
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If I recall Intel P4's are better for gaming and the T'Birds are better for business apps cause of the superior fpu.
Leave a real <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq" target="_new">link</A>
Leave a real <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq" target="_new">link</A>
If you're playing Quake 3, every review I've seen shows the P4 rocking the T-Bird; Over 10fps difference (~15%), minimum. As far as Unreal Tourney, Half-Life, NOLF, the T-Bird either wins out statistically (greater than 5% difference) or it runs even (less than .5% difference).
Some games just like the memory/fpu of the p4, and others don't. You're absolutely not going to go wrong either way, you're just going to spend more/less money doing it.
Some games just like the memory/fpu of the p4, and others don't. You're absolutely not going to go wrong either way, you're just going to spend more/less money doing it.
Heh, been reading reviews and talking to everyone I can. I am going to wait a month since I have to sell my pIII 500mhz, 128mb pc100 x 2, tnt2.
I am going with a duron, not sure of clock yet since I am going to oc and most durons can reach 1000mhz with too much hassle. When overclockwarehouse.com gets the Orfio in stock again I'll get that. It isn't too expensive and does a great job of cooling. I am going to get a 80mm fan and cut a hole in the side of my case; attack tubing from the fan to the hsf. The reason I am going with orfio is it has one side for the air to flow away from heat sink. I will attack another tube to direct the air right out of the case again. This way no hot air will remain in the case from the cpu.
I already have the standard exhaust fan in the back and my case right now has great airflow, though I can't test the actual mobo/cpu temps with onboard sensors everything is kept cool. I usually keep the room temp 18c-20c so no prob with ambient temps. For me noise has no stance if I can keep the temps lower so I am going with the delta fan on the Orfio.
I am probably going with crucial mem, can only afford 256mb but really want/need 512mb. I'll run the highest fsb I can, hope to get 145mhz with the pc133 crucial ram. I thought about going with pc150 but it is too expensive for what it gets you. Hopefully someone can answer me this, will a duron 850 run higher clock at say 150mhz fsb than a lower rated clock duron? I may end up buying a oc duron from overclockwarehouse anyway.
My mobo will either be Asus a7v133 or Iwill kk266. Both have the same features. Tom likes Asus but lots of other people find Iwill to be just as good, if not better for oc. I know your happy with your Iwill. Does Iwill have a fan on the northbridge? I will have to check into that if no one can tell me.
I'll be hoping to get a geforce 2 gts or ultra when the geforce 3 pushes into the market. The MX is ok and the same as the gts/ultra for the max poly in 3dsmax but the gts/ultra can perform almost twice as good in other areas. It would be nice to get a Leadtek geforce 2 ultra with the 4ns memory, only maker I think to have that mem but I think that will still be fairly expensive even when the geforce 3 is out. I bet with that 4ns memory the ultra could be oc really far with good cooling.
Who knows, maybe I'd end up having a similar tubing setup for the video card as I will for the cpu. Probably the best next to water cooling. I'll be sure to let everyone know how my setup is once it is all said and done. Thx for everyone that helped!
I am going with a duron, not sure of clock yet since I am going to oc and most durons can reach 1000mhz with too much hassle. When overclockwarehouse.com gets the Orfio in stock again I'll get that. It isn't too expensive and does a great job of cooling. I am going to get a 80mm fan and cut a hole in the side of my case; attack tubing from the fan to the hsf. The reason I am going with orfio is it has one side for the air to flow away from heat sink. I will attack another tube to direct the air right out of the case again. This way no hot air will remain in the case from the cpu.
I already have the standard exhaust fan in the back and my case right now has great airflow, though I can't test the actual mobo/cpu temps with onboard sensors everything is kept cool. I usually keep the room temp 18c-20c so no prob with ambient temps. For me noise has no stance if I can keep the temps lower so I am going with the delta fan on the Orfio.
I am probably going with crucial mem, can only afford 256mb but really want/need 512mb. I'll run the highest fsb I can, hope to get 145mhz with the pc133 crucial ram. I thought about going with pc150 but it is too expensive for what it gets you. Hopefully someone can answer me this, will a duron 850 run higher clock at say 150mhz fsb than a lower rated clock duron? I may end up buying a oc duron from overclockwarehouse anyway.
My mobo will either be Asus a7v133 or Iwill kk266. Both have the same features. Tom likes Asus but lots of other people find Iwill to be just as good, if not better for oc. I know your happy with your Iwill. Does Iwill have a fan on the northbridge? I will have to check into that if no one can tell me.
I'll be hoping to get a geforce 2 gts or ultra when the geforce 3 pushes into the market. The MX is ok and the same as the gts/ultra for the max poly in 3dsmax but the gts/ultra can perform almost twice as good in other areas. It would be nice to get a Leadtek geforce 2 ultra with the 4ns memory, only maker I think to have that mem but I think that will still be fairly expensive even when the geforce 3 is out. I bet with that 4ns memory the ultra could be oc really far with good cooling.
Who knows, maybe I'd end up having a similar tubing setup for the video card as I will for the cpu. Probably the best next to water cooling. I'll be sure to let everyone know how my setup is once it is all said and done. Thx for everyone that helped!
noko
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- Jan 22, 2001
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Sounds like you have been doing your home work and that is good. I think the GTS can pump more polys then any other commericial card particulary untextured polys. Another trick you might want to considered especially with your ingenious cooling setup is to route air from an air conditioning duct (partially) using flexible ventilation tubing 2-3 inches wide. This could supply much colder air for free to your case/cpu and should be easy and cheap to do. Plus easy to make look good. The potential for overclocking success and reliability would be to good to pass up. Just make sure you unhook it in the winter time, no need to heat up your case. The IWILL KK266 doesn't have a fan on the northbridge but yet on all the KT133a boards out it is the only one that made it to 160mhz FSB stably, with a fan it was able to go to 161mhz. Really the ram is the limitation here and not the cooling of the Northbridge.
<font color=purple>
The IWILL KK266 greatly exceeded my expectations and really I got it on a fluke because Federal Express lost my orginal shipment from GenXTech which had a Soltek SL75KAV. Since GenXtech didn't have any more soltek boards they sent me the IWILL board instead, after I agreed. That proved to be good fortune and what a steller performer the KK266 has been. Should be upgrading to a 1.3gh Thunderbird or Palimino in June or maybe sooner. Needless to say the board has a built in sound chip C-Media(not the one in the 686B southbridge) which drives up to four speakers that is just plain surperb with Win9x and W2k Drivers. It works flawless and sounds great. Plus the board has 3 Phase Power to support up to 1.5GHz processor speeds which the Asus A7V only has two Phase Power. FSB settings from 100-200mhz with voltage settings from 1.05-1.85volts supporting new processors from AMD.
With the Crucial Ram I can run stable at CAS2 up to 138mhz without any problems and CAS3 I had it up to 142 before my CPU started to choke. Just make sure every component is a quality component and don't forget about a good power supply. Fun times are up ahead. Wait, I am having fun now... Right on
.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 03/17/01 11:19 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
<font color=purple>
</font color=purple>
The IWILL KK266 greatly exceeded my expectations and really I got it on a fluke because Federal Express lost my orginal shipment from GenXTech which had a Soltek SL75KAV. Since GenXtech didn't have any more soltek boards they sent me the IWILL board instead, after I agreed. That proved to be good fortune and what a steller performer the KK266 has been. Should be upgrading to a 1.3gh Thunderbird or Palimino in June or maybe sooner. Needless to say the board has a built in sound chip C-Media(not the one in the 686B southbridge) which drives up to four speakers that is just plain surperb with Win9x and W2k Drivers. It works flawless and sounds great. Plus the board has 3 Phase Power to support up to 1.5GHz processor speeds which the Asus A7V only has two Phase Power. FSB settings from 100-200mhz with voltage settings from 1.05-1.85volts supporting new processors from AMD.
With the Crucial Ram I can run stable at CAS2 up to 138mhz without any problems and CAS3 I had it up to 142 before my CPU started to choke. Just make sure every component is a quality component and don't forget about a good power supply. Fun times are up ahead. Wait, I am having fun now... Right on
.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 03/17/01 11:19 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Forgot the mention that I do indeed need onboard sound, my mobo now has it so why not? That way having it in pci won't possibly block the way for overclocking. Since I'm going to have to cut holes in my case already I think I will have to cut extra holes for the 3d sound even though I will just be using stereo.
Raid is for more than one hardrive right? It is just better than having the primary and slave correct? I really know nothing about this. My hard drive is 9gig ata66 7200rpm and I don't plan on getting a new one for quite some time. There are faster and largest drives out there but I don't need either. I'm guessing the ata100 cable that comes with it runs ata66 just fine right?
I'm going to want to stay in cas2 mode for sure. Question is what will perform better; higher fsb and then adjust the multiplier as high as it can go or stay at 133 fsb and then max out the multiplier? This system will most likely be a duron which people say can reach 1000mhz no prob. In a month it could end up being a tbird I don't know.
I was going to hold out for the 760mp but since it is now coming in july I don't want to wait that long, plus the dual mobo will be pretty expensive at first anyway.
Depending on how much I can get everything I want for, my local vendor seems kinda pricey, know any good online places to buy from one place so I don't have to play $10 for shipping on each item? All places on pricewatch that have great prices on durons end up having high ram prices or higher prices on other things like power supply or even more so 3d cards.
Another thing holding me back right now is that I'm aiming to stretch my budget really high so it is hard to get everything going. I have to sell my pIII 500,128mb pc100 x 2,tnt2 before I can get everything I need. I will probabl put them up on ebay but I never done that before.
My local vendor gave me a quote of $423 for Asus a7v133, duron 800, good heatsink (didn't ask which one), geforce2 MX, Good 300watt power supply. After tax, which is kinda high where I live, it left me know money for ram so I wanted to try and find other places to buy from.
What are the specs to look for in a power supply? This is my power supply right now, whats missing from it that I need to look out for?
**********************************************************
Power Supply
The 200-Watt (W) power supply can operate from an AC power source of 115 volts AC (VAC) at 60 hertz (Hz) or 230 VAC at 50 Hz. The power supply provides the DC operating voltages and currents listed in the following table.
NOTE: The power supply produces DC voltages only under its loaded condition. The DC power cable connectors must be connected to their corresponding power input connectors on the system board or drives in order to measure these voltages.
Table 2. DC Voltage Ranges
Voltage**|Range**********|Maximum Output Current|Notes
+3.3 VDC |+3.14 to +3.47 VDC|14.00 A|The combined load on the+3.3-VDC and +5-VDC outputs cannot exceed 140 W.
+5 VDC**|+4.90 to +5.25 VDC|22.00 A|The combined load on the +3.3-VDC and +5-VDC outputs cannot exceed 140 W.
–5 VDC**|–4.50 to –5.50 VDC|0.300 A
+12 VDC*|+11.40 to +12.60 VDC|6.00 A|The +12-VDC output can withstand surges of up to 11.0 A to support disk start-up operations.
–12 VDC*|–10.80 to –13.20 VDC|0.300 A|
+5 VSB**|+4.75 to +5.25 VDC|1.2 A|The +5 volts standby (VSB) is sometimes called volts flea power (VFP).
***********************************************************
Raid is for more than one hardrive right? It is just better than having the primary and slave correct? I really know nothing about this. My hard drive is 9gig ata66 7200rpm and I don't plan on getting a new one for quite some time. There are faster and largest drives out there but I don't need either. I'm guessing the ata100 cable that comes with it runs ata66 just fine right?
I'm going to want to stay in cas2 mode for sure. Question is what will perform better; higher fsb and then adjust the multiplier as high as it can go or stay at 133 fsb and then max out the multiplier? This system will most likely be a duron which people say can reach 1000mhz no prob. In a month it could end up being a tbird I don't know.
I was going to hold out for the 760mp but since it is now coming in july I don't want to wait that long, plus the dual mobo will be pretty expensive at first anyway.
Depending on how much I can get everything I want for, my local vendor seems kinda pricey, know any good online places to buy from one place so I don't have to play $10 for shipping on each item? All places on pricewatch that have great prices on durons end up having high ram prices or higher prices on other things like power supply or even more so 3d cards.
Another thing holding me back right now is that I'm aiming to stretch my budget really high so it is hard to get everything going. I have to sell my pIII 500,128mb pc100 x 2,tnt2 before I can get everything I need. I will probabl put them up on ebay but I never done that before.
My local vendor gave me a quote of $423 for Asus a7v133, duron 800, good heatsink (didn't ask which one), geforce2 MX, Good 300watt power supply. After tax, which is kinda high where I live, it left me know money for ram so I wanted to try and find other places to buy from.
What are the specs to look for in a power supply? This is my power supply right now, whats missing from it that I need to look out for?
**********************************************************
Power Supply
The 200-Watt (W) power supply can operate from an AC power source of 115 volts AC (VAC) at 60 hertz (Hz) or 230 VAC at 50 Hz. The power supply provides the DC operating voltages and currents listed in the following table.
NOTE: The power supply produces DC voltages only under its loaded condition. The DC power cable connectors must be connected to their corresponding power input connectors on the system board or drives in order to measure these voltages.
Table 2. DC Voltage Ranges
Voltage**|Range**********|Maximum Output Current|Notes
+3.3 VDC |+3.14 to +3.47 VDC|14.00 A|The combined load on the+3.3-VDC and +5-VDC outputs cannot exceed 140 W.
+5 VDC**|+4.90 to +5.25 VDC|22.00 A|The combined load on the +3.3-VDC and +5-VDC outputs cannot exceed 140 W.
–5 VDC**|–4.50 to –5.50 VDC|0.300 A
+12 VDC*|+11.40 to +12.60 VDC|6.00 A|The +12-VDC output can withstand surges of up to 11.0 A to support disk start-up operations.
–12 VDC*|–10.80 to –13.20 VDC|0.300 A|
+5 VSB**|+4.75 to +5.25 VDC|1.2 A|The +5 volts standby (VSB) is sometimes called volts flea power (VFP).
***********************************************************
noko
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RAID (redundant array of independent disks), in other words using multiple drives in tandem to store data. For the most part the Raid setup looks like one hard drive. Advantages depending on configuration:
1. Speed increase or performance
2. Reliabiltiy
3. or both
Different configurations, there are six different configurations but will briefly describe two of them, Raid Array 0 and 1.
Array 0: Stripping
Two or more hard drives has data laid down in such a way that it is organized in stripes across the multiple drives. So a 1 megabyte file would have 512 kilobytes on one drive and 512 kilobytes on the other hard drive in a two hard drive Raid 0 setup. Performance is increased due to data being accessed at the same time from both hard drives. So in other words if both hard drives had a 33mb/sec data transfer rate then theoretically in a Raid 0 array you could have 66mb/sec data transfer rate. In reality it is more like 50-60% of the theoretical. Plus if you have two 20gb hard drive combined in the Raid 0 setup your system it would look like one big 40gb drive.
Array 1: Disk mirroring
The same data is copied and stored on both disks (or “mirrored”) to ensure that, should a drive fail, your good drive would still be intact for data. Increases reliability tremendously, used when you have critical data. Read performance is slightly increased.
Then you have combinations of Raid 0 and 1 like in using 4 drives two would be used in stripping and the other two would be used in mirroring.
Note: should use the same size and model hard drive for Raid setups. You might be able to find two cheap 5400rpm 15gb hard drives and hook them up in a Raid 0 setup and have 30gb capacity with speeds faster then the fastest single drive setup available today. If you can find another 9gig hard drive like what you have then you could have a 18gig raid 0 setup. Just a thought.
Will check around to see if I can find one convenient place for shopping. For ram I would go with Crucial, shipping is rather cheap there anyways. Sorry, but your 200w P/S has to go, just not enough power for overclockers.
Full detail in Raid setups can be found here:
<A HREF="http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/infobrf/raidfin.html" target="_new">http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/infobrf/raidfin.html</A>
1. Speed increase or performance
2. Reliabiltiy
3. or both
Different configurations, there are six different configurations but will briefly describe two of them, Raid Array 0 and 1.
Array 0: Stripping
Two or more hard drives has data laid down in such a way that it is organized in stripes across the multiple drives. So a 1 megabyte file would have 512 kilobytes on one drive and 512 kilobytes on the other hard drive in a two hard drive Raid 0 setup. Performance is increased due to data being accessed at the same time from both hard drives. So in other words if both hard drives had a 33mb/sec data transfer rate then theoretically in a Raid 0 array you could have 66mb/sec data transfer rate. In reality it is more like 50-60% of the theoretical. Plus if you have two 20gb hard drive combined in the Raid 0 setup your system it would look like one big 40gb drive.
Array 1: Disk mirroring
The same data is copied and stored on both disks (or “mirrored”) to ensure that, should a drive fail, your good drive would still be intact for data. Increases reliability tremendously, used when you have critical data. Read performance is slightly increased.
Then you have combinations of Raid 0 and 1 like in using 4 drives two would be used in stripping and the other two would be used in mirroring.
Note: should use the same size and model hard drive for Raid setups. You might be able to find two cheap 5400rpm 15gb hard drives and hook them up in a Raid 0 setup and have 30gb capacity with speeds faster then the fastest single drive setup available today. If you can find another 9gig hard drive like what you have then you could have a 18gig raid 0 setup. Just a thought.
Will check around to see if I can find one convenient place for shopping. For ram I would go with Crucial, shipping is rather cheap there anyways. Sorry, but your 200w P/S has to go, just not enough power for overclockers.
Full detail in Raid setups can be found here:
<A HREF="http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/infobrf/raidfin.html" target="_new">http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/infobrf/raidfin.html</A>
noko
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Where do you live? For the system describe above but substituting a KK266 vice the A7V133 I can get it for $325.90 with a Hercules GTS2 MX 32mb card, AMD approved 300w P/S, Duron 800 with heatsink (warranty for 1 year) delivered to your door step, that is if you live in the US. With 256mb CAS2 Micron 7ns ram add $90.
Above with Radeon LE, $3 more. You might want to check out the Radeon LE review here:
<A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/video/radeon-le.html" target="_new">http://www.xbitlabs.com/video/radeon-le.html</A>
The GTS2 MXs take a pretty severe beating in 32 bit resolutions particulary in the higher resolutions. The new ATI W2k official DX8 3102 drivers are frankly excellent so maybe this is a possibility again.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 03/18/01 10:50 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Above with Radeon LE, $3 more. You might want to check out the Radeon LE review here:
<A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/video/radeon-le.html" target="_new">http://www.xbitlabs.com/video/radeon-le.html</A>
The GTS2 MXs take a pretty severe beating in 32 bit resolutions particulary in the higher resolutions. The new ATI W2k official DX8 3102 drivers are frankly excellent so maybe this is a possibility again.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 03/18/01 10:50 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Hmm, the LE looks like something I should really get, great price/performance for sure. Only thing is I still haven't seen a radeon run in 3dsmax with newer drivers to compare. I definately run at higher resolutions and never think of 16bit as an option so the LE seems good. It seems someone has a problem at rage3d regarding radeon and 3dsmax under win2k. I will hopefully get the low down on this soon.
Those prices are better than I can get here. I live in BC, Canada so I'm sure shipping would be more but that doesn't bother me.
Oh yeah, with that power supply, how many extra case fans could I have?<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by m_kelder on 03/18/01 05:38 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Those prices are better than I can get here. I live in BC, Canada so I'm sure shipping would be more but that doesn't bother me.
Oh yeah, with that power supply, how many extra case fans could I have?<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by m_kelder on 03/18/01 05:38 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Forgot to ask where this place is that you got those prices from? Is it your local reseller or an online shop? I just was looking at the kyro II. That is a very impressive chip I must say. It performs better than the MX and scores really close to the gefroce2 GTS. Only thing is that it doesn't have T&L, but nothing needs it, just better with it. At lower resolution the radeon will beat the kyroII with T&L but at 1600x1200 the kyroII beats it and score within a few fps of the GTS 2. This thing even beats the ultra in some high res benchmarks. In Mercedes-Benz Truck Racing the kyroII scores that of a radeon SDR which is pretty low but every card runs slow in that game. THe kyroII has the best FSAA out right now, geforce3 will beat it though. Like the radeon, there is no or little hit from 32bit over 16bit.
The tile based engine it uses seems to be better than hyperZ. Although it will be ready to buy by the end of this month it should be a steal at $150. Now all I need to see is the radeon and the kyroII in 3dsmax, will be a while before I see the kyroII's benchmarks.
The tile based engine it uses seems to be better than hyperZ. Although it will be ready to buy by the end of this month it should be a steal at $150. Now all I need to see is the radeon and the kyroII in 3dsmax, will be a while before I see the kyroII's benchmarks.
noko
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IWILL kk266 is at <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=13-129-103" target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=13-129-103</A>
for $125 with free shipping.
The Hercules MX card is also at <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=BROWSE&manufactory=1282" target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=BROWSE&manufactory=1282</A> single head $82 and Dual Display video for $93 (not dual monitors but monitor and TV, big deal). Also free shipping. The Radeon LE is also here but you have to pay for shipping but then again you may have to pay for shipping anyways also here you can get the Radeon LE with TV out.
300w P/S at <A HREF="http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=205-3548N" target="_new">http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=205-3548N</A> LeadMan PowMax 6100C which is AMD approved with dual ball bearing fans. Not sure how many 80mm fans you could hook up with this baby but I would say enough. Use the air conditioning trick, that is if you have an available A/C duct. $29 plus $7 shipping.
Duron 800 $66 cooler $9 and Radeon LE for $84 or Elsa MX for $99 with a flat shipping cost of $6.95 for up to 150lbs of merchandise is here:
<A HREF="http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_main.html?catid=180&sid=1gi2Ty0G7K1S1fD" target="_new">http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_main.html?catid=180&sid=1gi2Ty0G7K1S1fD</A>
<A HREF="http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=794&sid=1gi2Ty0G7K1S1fD" target="_new">http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=794&sid=1gi2Ty0G7K1S1fD</A>
<A HREF="http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=1009&sid=1gi2Ty0G7K1S1fD" target="_new">http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=1009&sid=1gi2Ty0G7K1S1fD</A>
One of the few places that carry a flat fee for shipping, nice. Also the Duron 750 is only $55, WOW!! and probably overclock to 1000mhz anyways.
for $125 with free shipping.
The Hercules MX card is also at <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=BROWSE&manufactory=1282" target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=BROWSE&manufactory=1282</A> single head $82 and Dual Display video for $93 (not dual monitors but monitor and TV, big deal). Also free shipping. The Radeon LE is also here but you have to pay for shipping but then again you may have to pay for shipping anyways also here you can get the Radeon LE with TV out.
300w P/S at <A HREF="http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=205-3548N" target="_new">http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=205-3548N</A> LeadMan PowMax 6100C which is AMD approved with dual ball bearing fans. Not sure how many 80mm fans you could hook up with this baby but I would say enough. Use the air conditioning trick, that is if you have an available A/C duct. $29 plus $7 shipping.
Duron 800 $66 cooler $9 and Radeon LE for $84 or Elsa MX for $99 with a flat shipping cost of $6.95 for up to 150lbs of merchandise is here:
<A HREF="http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_main.html?catid=180&sid=1gi2Ty0G7K1S1fD" target="_new">http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_main.html?catid=180&sid=1gi2Ty0G7K1S1fD</A>
<A HREF="http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=794&sid=1gi2Ty0G7K1S1fD" target="_new">http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=794&sid=1gi2Ty0G7K1S1fD</A>
<A HREF="http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=1009&sid=1gi2Ty0G7K1S1fD" target="_new">http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=1009&sid=1gi2Ty0G7K1S1fD</A>
One of the few places that carry a flat fee for shipping, nice. Also the Duron 750 is only $55, WOW!! and probably overclock to 1000mhz anyways.
Finger test 
After running for a while at full load shut down and take the case off. Stick your finger on the heat sink remember how it feels and go to your tap. Run water and feel it to get the right temp. Then get a thermometer and see what it's temp is.
Primitive but it works.
After running for a while at full load shut down and take the case off. Stick your finger on the heat sink remember how it feels and go to your tap. Run water and feel it to get the right temp. Then get a thermometer and see what it's temp is.Primitive but it works.
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