Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (
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Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote:
>Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> looked up from reading the entrails of
>the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote:
>>>Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> looked up from reading the entrails of
>>>the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>>
>>>>Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote:
>>>>>Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> looked up from reading the entrails of
>>>>>the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>Blabbus Blabbibicus <blabbus@talk.com> looked up from reading the
>>>>>>>entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
>>>>>>>say:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:37:17 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
>>>>>>>><GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bitstring <1113759585.591519.137210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, from
>>>>>>>>>the wonderful person Alex Mars <alexmars@aol.com> said
>>>>>>>>>>He forgot KOTOR 1 and 2.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Judging by the games he listed, it looks like the original poster
>>>>>>>>>>hasn't been out shopping for games since the mid-90s.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Does Deus-Ex count?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Deus Ex is a FPS! And so is System Shock 2. Although honestly
>>>>>>>>they're both kinda in the greyzone between genres.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Have you ever actually played System Shock 2?
>>>>>>>3 "classes"
>>>>>>>Stats (and development of them)
>>>>>>>Skills (and development of them)
>>>>>>>Quests
>>>>>>>Inventory management
>>>>>>>Even Spell like abilities (Psionics)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>How in the hell do you claim this isn't an RPG?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What kind of choices can you make that define the role you have taken
>>>>>>on?
>>>>>
>>>>>Your stats, your skills and abilities, your equipment.
>>>>>In short, the same few things that most crpgs let you choose.
>>>>
>>>>The role you play in the story is the things you do that affect the
>>>>story.
>>>
>>>Really? What real choices do you have in most CRPGS?
>>
>>Which faction you support.
>
>Gee that's funny since in most CRPGs there aren't any factions for you
>to choose between or any real choices to make.
This is a discussion about WHAT A CRPG IS. So you can't say "all CRPGs
have X therefor anything with X is a CRPG" or any similarly stupid
statement. So if I say a CRPG is something with Y then I don't consider
anything without Y to be a CRPG. I've been waiting for you to get this
for quite a few posts now.
>>>Hell, by that definition, Wing Commander would be an RPG, since
>>>success/failure have different paths through the game - including losing
>>>the game entirely.
>>
>>And by your definition System Shock 2 is an RPG.
>
>It fits the profile.
>
>>>>>Face it, most crpgs have exactly the same meta choices in exactly the
>>>>>same places regardless of what "class" you're playing, if you're given a
>>>>>choice at all (see ARX Fatalis and it's cutscenes where your decisions
>>>>>are made for you.)
>>>>>All you really get to choose is your stats, abilities (spells) and
>>>>>equipment.
>>>>
>>>>Playing a different class doesn't have to give you a different role in
>>>>the game, which proves your claim that choosing stats is the same as
>>>>choosing your role is false.
>>>
>>>And what choice of role do you really have in most CRPGs, none.
>>>
>>>Take Baldur's Gate - it's doesn't matter a bit what class you are, or
>>>your stats/skills, it's the same story every time.
>>
>>I never claimed Baldur's Gate was an RPG.
>
>You may not have but it's used time and again as an example of one.
>
>>>That's the difference between Crpg and rpg, a very limited amount of
>>>possible outcomes and very little _real_ choice, since each and every
>>>impact on the story would have to be mapped out.
>>>
>>>Are you good or evil? Are you a magic user or a warrior?
>>>In most crpgs it makes no difference at all to the overall story.
>>
>>Then why do you call them RPGs?
>
>I call them CRPGs, you know since they're on a computer and don't have a
>real person making all the behind the scenes decisions.
>
>Putting it on a computer means it has to be more limited then a
>human-human RPG, because the computer can't improvise or change the
>story when you did something unexpected.
>The storyline is by nature fairly linear, because it has to be.
>
>The choices of class/stats/skills are still the player's choice for
>their role in the story.
>That role doesn't have to have world shaking consequences, nor does it
>have to be particularly different from another's choices for the same
>role.
>
>The fact that most CRPGs have the Hero off doing something that does
>have vast consequences, doesn't mean that what the Hero's class is has
>to be important.
>Joe Blow slays the Dragon, defeats the Necromancer and saves the day!
>Does it really matter if Joe Blow is a Paladin or a Wizard or a Juggler?
>NO, all that matters is that he was the hero that saved the day.
>
>>>That's what I said before (and you quoted), the meta-choices are the
>>>same regardless of class/alignment/skills/stats and in a large number of
>>>crpgs boil down to Do A then B, or do B then A, which isn't really a
>>>choice at all.
>>>
>>>But feel free to list all those CRPGs in which your choices actually
>>>have a real effect on the story.
>>
>>They don't have to affect the end of the story, just what happens in
>>between is fine.
>
>I note you aren't listing all those CRPGs that fit YOUR definition.
>Is that because there aren't any? Or because they are a tiny minority of
>what the gaming public, game companies and media call CRPGs?
>
>
>Xocyll
4n761lsaiec228l1h1h31ierbfbiavd1m@4ax.com...
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