Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (
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Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote:
>>Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> looked up from reading the entrails of
>>the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>>Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote:
>>>>Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> looked up from reading the entrails of
>>>>the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>>>
>>>>>Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote:
>>>>>>Blabbus Blabbibicus <blabbus@talk.com> looked up from reading the
>>>>>>entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
>>>>>>say:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:37:17 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
>>>>>>><GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bitstring <1113759585.591519.137210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, from
>>>>>>>>the wonderful person Alex Mars <alexmars@aol.com> said
>>>>>>>>>He forgot KOTOR 1 and 2.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Judging by the games he listed, it looks like the original poster
>>>>>>>>>hasn't been out shopping for games since the mid-90s.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Does Deus-Ex count?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Deus Ex is a FPS! And so is System Shock 2. Although honestly
>>>>>>>they're both kinda in the greyzone between genres.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Have you ever actually played System Shock 2?
>>>>>>3 "classes"
>>>>>>Stats (and development of them)
>>>>>>Skills (and development of them)
>>>>>>Quests
>>>>>>Inventory management
>>>>>>Even Spell like abilities (Psionics)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How in the hell do you claim this isn't an RPG?
>>>>>
>>>>>What kind of choices can you make that define the role you have taken
>>>>>on?
>>>>
>>>>Your stats, your skills and abilities, your equipment.
>>>>In short, the same few things that most crpgs let you choose.
>>>
>>>The role you play in the story is the things you do that affect the
>>>story.
>>
>>Really? What real choices do you have in most CRPGS?
>
>Which faction you support.
Gee that's funny since in most CRPGs there aren't any factions for you
to choose between or any real choices to make.
>>Hell, by that definition, Wing Commander would be an RPG, since
>>success/failure have different paths through the game - including losing
>>the game entirely.
>
>And by your definition System Shock 2 is an RPG.
It fits the profile.
>>>>Face it, most crpgs have exactly the same meta choices in exactly the
>>>>same places regardless of what "class" you're playing, if you're given a
>>>>choice at all (see ARX Fatalis and it's cutscenes where your decisions
>>>>are made for you.)
>>>>All you really get to choose is your stats, abilities (spells) and
>>>>equipment.
>>>
>>>Playing a different class doesn't have to give you a different role in
>>>the game, which proves your claim that choosing stats is the same as
>>>choosing your role is false.
>>
>>And what choice of role do you really have in most CRPGs, none.
>>
>>Take Baldur's Gate - it's doesn't matter a bit what class you are, or
>>your stats/skills, it's the same story every time.
>
>I never claimed Baldur's Gate was an RPG.
You may not have but it's used time and again as an example of one.
>>That's the difference between Crpg and rpg, a very limited amount of
>>possible outcomes and very little _real_ choice, since each and every
>>impact on the story would have to be mapped out.
>>
>>Are you good or evil? Are you a magic user or a warrior?
>>In most crpgs it makes no difference at all to the overall story.
>
>Then why do you call them RPGs?
I call them CRPGs, you know since they're on a computer and don't have a
real person making all the behind the scenes decisions.
Putting it on a computer means it has to be more limited then a
human-human RPG, because the computer can't improvise or change the
story when you did something unexpected.
The storyline is by nature fairly linear, because it has to be.
The choices of class/stats/skills are still the player's choice for
their role in the story.
That role doesn't have to have world shaking consequences, nor does it
have to be particularly different from another's choices for the same
role.
The fact that most CRPGs have the Hero off doing something that does
have vast consequences, doesn't mean that what the Hero's class is has
to be important.
Joe Blow slays the Dragon, defeats the Necromancer and saves the day!
Does it really matter if Joe Blow is a Paladin or a Wizard or a Juggler?
NO, all that matters is that he was the hero that saved the day.
>>That's what I said before (and you quoted), the meta-choices are the
>>same regardless of class/alignment/skills/stats and in a large number of
>>crpgs boil down to Do A then B, or do B then A, which isn't really a
>>choice at all.
>>
>>But feel free to list all those CRPGs in which your choices actually
>>have a real effect on the story.
>
>They don't have to affect the end of the story, just what happens in
>between is fine.
I note you aren't listing all those CRPGs that fit YOUR definition.
Is that because there aren't any? Or because they are a tiny minority of
what the gaming public, game companies and media call CRPGs?
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Or, 'Why are
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