Question Which is more likely to corrupt the OS, a force shutdown or BSOD?

ShangWang · Dec 11, 2021

Now that I have a new SSD I don't think I'll be getting any BSOD anytime soon, but I'd like to know how it could corrupt the OS.

Here are my two described scenarios for either a possible BSOD or force shutdown in my previous experiences with a HDD:

BSOD
- A game that is too graphically intensive giving me an orange screen of death. I'm not overclocking here, the game was apparently too intense for my graphics card, it was Ori and the blind forest. Apparently GTA is fine though. Will this damage my GPU or corrupt the OS?

- I run into under volting my CPU way too much and get a BSOD from lack of power, will this corrupt the OS or damage the CPU?

- Any other possible reason that can cause BSOD, will this generally corrupt the OS or any files if I wasn't saving, or writing anything? What if I was just downloading windows updates? (Not updating, downloading from the update tab)

Force shutdown
- Alt tabbing a game causes it to freeze my whole screen, I can't ctrl + alt + delete or do anything at all. I am forced to shutdown. The game wasn't saving or anything at this time. Can a force shutdown corrupt the OS or any of my game files if no saving was happening?

If I wanted to do a force shutdown, how would I safely do so other than holding the power button?

Would a BSOD or force shutdown more likely cause the OS to corrupt, and why?

USAFRet · Dec 11, 2021

Which is more likely to corrupt the OS, a force shutdown or BSOD?

Yes.
There is no percentage either way. Too many variables.

What caused the BSOD?
What was the system doing at the forced shutdown?

A good backup routine, and any "corruption" is irrelevant.

ShangWang · Dec 11, 2021

USAFRet said:
Yes.
There is no percentage either way. Too many variables.

What caused the BSOD?
What was the system doing at the forced shutdown?

A good backup routine, and any "corruption" is irrelevant.

I mentioned all that in the post in the described scenarios, I'm wondering if either one is likely to corrupt the OS if not really saving or updating anything.

USAFRet · Dec 11, 2021

ShangWang said:
I mentioned all that in the post in the described scenarios, I'm wondering if either one is likely to corrupt the OS if not really saving or updating anything.

Right.
But "more likely" is unknowable.

Lets say there was a 5% chance with Condition A, and a 25% chance with Condition B.

If you happen to be that 5%...sucks to be you.

ShangWang · Dec 11, 2021

USAFRet said:
Right.
But "more likely" is unknowable.

Lets say there was a 5% chance with Condition A, and a 25% chance with Condition B.

If you happen to be that 5%...sucks to be you.

Thank you, though generally from what I describe corrupting the OS is unlikely to happen generally?

I'm also wondering how to safely shutdown my laptop instead of holding the power button for 5 seconds.

USAFRet · Dec 11, 2021

ShangWang said:
Thank you, though generally from what I describe corrupting the OS is unlikely to happen generally?

I'm also wondering how to safely shutdown my laptop instead of holding the power button for 5 seconds.

If it gets locked, thats about the only real way.

What you need to do is not have that condition happen. Don't let the system get to that state.

Colif · Dec 11, 2021

BSOD is a result of an error, its not the cause of one. And there are some 350 different BSOD codes, many you will never see.

I have had 2 BSOD in 6 years on 2 PC, so the odds they can corrupt an OS depends on the PC really.
Forced Shutdowns can cause corruption. It depends on if you running fast startup on the PC... shouldn't need it on ssd but its on by default.

Of 2, I seen Shutdowns cause more than BSOD.

ShangWang · Dec 11, 2021

Colif said:
BSOD is a result of an error, its not the cause of one. And there are some 350 different BSOD codes, many you will never see.

I have had 2 BSOD in 6 years on 2 PC, so the odds they can corrupt an OS depends on the PC really.
Forced Shutdowns can cause corruption. It depends on if you running fast startup on the PC... shouldn't need it on ssd but its on by default.

Of 2, I seen Shutdowns cause more than BSOD.

Thanks, I just recently ran into a "power state failure" BSOD.

I only had this once when I was playing a game, closed it, went to open an administrative permission installation, and it froze before it led me to the yes and no option.

I ctrl + alt + delete and it worked, but the windows explorer was stuck. After a few minutes I got the BSOD. I'm assuming this was because of my dedicated graphics card not releasing resources or being active for another task.

I googled that it's due to device driver errors commonly, so I updated my nvidia graphics game driver and so far so good, but I don't know if it will happen in the future again.

The thing is the game driver should have been perfectly fine because those updates are only for brand new graphics cards, but I guess it might have been some conflict with using MSI afterburner where I was trying to update it so it might have been a combination of outdated software.

I quickly did a sfc scan and it did find corruption and fixed it, but most of the time it's because of old drive files cleaned or something, sfc isn't super accurate with error findings but everything was working fine after that.

Colif · Dec 11, 2021

Can you follow option one on the following link - here - and then do this step below: Small memory dumps - Have Windows Create a Small Memory Dump (Minidump) on BSOD - that creates a file in c windows/minidump after the next BSOD

Open Windows File Explore
Navigate to C:\Windows\Minidump
Copy the mini-dump files out onto your Desktop
Do not use Winzip, use the built in facility in Windows
Select those files on your Desktop, right click them and choose 'Send to' - Compressed (zipped) folder
Upload the zip file to the Cloud (OneDrive, DropBox . . . etc.)
Then post a link here to the zip file, so we can take a look for you . . .

just in case it happens again

ShangWang · Dec 12, 2021

Colif said:
Can you follow option one on the following link - here - and then do this step below: Small memory dumps - Have Windows Create a Small Memory Dump (Minidump) on BSOD - that creates a file in c windows/minidump after the next BSOD

Open Windows File Explore

Navigate to C:\Windows\Minidump

Copy the mini-dump files out onto your Desktop

Do not use Winzip, use the built in facility in Windows

Select those files on your Desktop, right click them and choose 'Send to' - Compressed (zipped) folder

Upload the zip file to the Cloud (OneDrive, DropBox . . . etc.)

Then post a link here to the zip file, so we can take a look for you . . .

just in case it happens again

Thank you, I found the dmp file but I don't know what you mean by the built in facility. I don't see any options to extract the files that are built in.

Do you want me to extract the dmp file or just zip it?

Colif · Dec 12, 2021

built in facility = once the files are copied to desktop, right click them (or select entire group and right click it) and choose Compress to zip file (that is what it shows in win 11, it might be different in win 10). Don't use winzip or winrar to create zip file.

thats it.

ShangWang · Dec 12, 2021

Colif said:
built in facility = once the files are copied to desktop, right click them (or select entire group and right click it) and choose Compress to zip file (that is what it shows in win 11, it might be different in win 10). Don't use winzip or winrar to create zip file.

thats it.

I see, thank you. I thought I had to unzip the DMP file or something.
Just curious, why do you need this file zipped so I can share it?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mxpdi8ythxg6ec2/121121-7343-01.zip?dl=0

Colif · Dec 12, 2021

its zipped so that the person who downloads it doesn't get a big file. If all dumps in one zip its easier to track them

To read the results of the dumps there is a program called Windbg. Its results aren't very clear so @gardenman (a mod here) wrote a program that outputs results in a form I can read. For most part.

He should get a notification to see post now.

ShangWang · Dec 12, 2021

Colif said:
its zipped so that the person who downloads it doesn't get a big file. If all dumps in one zip its easier to track them

To read the results of the dumps there is a program called Windbg. Its results aren't very clear so @gardenman (a mod here) wrote a program that outputs results in a form I can read. For most part.

He should get a notification to see post now.

Thanks, I thikn the issue is playing cuphead and using msi after burner with overlay.

First it was "power state failure," now it's "nvlddmkm.sys" or something along those lines. This doesn't happen with any other game.

Here's the second crash dump, I don't think there's much to be done to fix this, it might just be game compatibility issues with other software.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w1j33u7xl1fvsnp/121221-7453-01.zip?dl=0

Colif · Dec 12, 2021

ShangWang said:
nvlddmkm.sys

Nvidia drivers

run ddu in safe mode and reinstall Nvidia drivers - https://forums.tomshardware.com/faq...n-install-of-your-video-card-drivers.2402269/

ShangWang · Dec 12, 2021

Colif said:
Nvidia drivers

run ddu in safe mode and reinstall Nvidia drivers - https://forums.tomshardware.com/faq...n-install-of-your-video-card-drivers.2402269/

thanks, I'll try that if any other game than cuphead causes this issue, I really just think it's that one game. I just recently installed an update for nvidia game drive before after this whole thing happened.

Colif · Dec 12, 2021

most of the time errors caused by drivers. Games don't have any drivers, they use what PC supplies. So if its crashing and mentioning Nvidia drivers, you can simply try updating them instead of ddu but ddu makes sure no old files left. You can do a custom install in Geforce experience and force it to do a clean install too.

ShangWang · Dec 12, 2021

Colif said:
most of the time errors caused by drivers. Games don't have any drivers, they use what PC supplies. So if its crashing and mentioning Nvidia drivers, you can simply try updating them instead of ddu but ddu makes sure no old files left. You can do a custom install in Geforce experience and force it to do a clean install too.

Thanks, I think I'll use Nvidias custom clean install it should work fine. Do you also know if BSOD can possibly corrupt drivers as well?

Edit: Doing a clean install and reinstalling MSI afterburner seemed to have worked, thanks! I didn't do DDU, but some people said the Nvidia clean install is good enough, and so far so good.

I can use the overlay with Cuphead and tabbing in and out works fine.

gardenman · Dec 12, 2021

Hi, I ran the dump files through the debugger and got the following information: https://jsfiddle.net/7Lu5rst4/show This link is for anyone wanting to help. You do not have to view it. It is safe to "run the fiddle" as the page asks.

File information:	121221-7453-01.dmp (Dec 12 2021 - 01:18:34)
Bugcheck:	SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED_M (1000007E)
Driver warnings:	*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for nvlddmkm.sys
Probably caused by:	memory_corruption (Process: System)
Uptime:	0 Day(s), 2 Hour(s), 34 Min(s), and 35 Sec(s)

File information:	121121-7343-01.dmp (Dec 11 2021 - 21:18:17)
Bugcheck:	DRIVER_POWER_STATE_FAILURE (9F)
Driver warnings:	*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for nvlddmkm.sys
Probably caused by:	memory_corruption (Process: System)
Uptime:	0 Day(s), 9 Hour(s), 26 Min(s), and 56 Sec(s)

Comments:

2 or more types of RAM are installed. This is usually OK on laptops.
The overclocking driver "RTCore64.sys" was found on your system. (MSI Afterburner)
It looks like NVIDIA crashed both times.

Possible system page: https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/support-product/7571?b=1
You have the latest BIOS already installed, version 1.28.

This information can be used by others to help you.
Hopefully the GPU driver reinstall works, good luck.

ShangWang · Dec 12, 2021

gardenman said:
Hi, I ran the dump files through the debugger and got the following information: https://jsfiddle.net/7Lu5rst4/show This link is for anyone wanting to help. You do not have to view it. It is safe to "run the fiddle" as the page asks.

File information: 121221-7453-01.dmp (Dec 12 2021 - 01:18:34)
Bugcheck: SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED_M (1000007E)
Driver warnings: *** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for nvlddmkm.sys
Probably caused by: memory_corruption (Process: System)
Uptime: 0 Day(s), 2 Hour(s), 34 Min(s), and 35 Sec(s)

File information: 121121-7343-01.dmp (Dec 11 2021 - 21:18:17)
Bugcheck: DRIVER_POWER_STATE_FAILURE (9F)
Driver warnings: *** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for nvlddmkm.sys
Probably caused by: memory_corruption (Process: System)
Uptime: 0 Day(s), 9 Hour(s), 26 Min(s), and 56 Sec(s)

Comments:

2 or more types of RAM are installed. This is usually OK on laptops.

The overclocking driver "RTCore64.sys" was found on your system. (MSI Afterburner)

It looks like NVIDIA crashed both times.

Possible system page: https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/support-product/7571?b=1
You have the latest BIOS already installed, version 1.28.

This information can be used by others to help you.
Hopefully the GPU driver reinstall works, good luck.

Thank you for that info! I already solved the problem by reinstalling with Nvidia clean install.

I have not overclocked or done anything with my GPU, I just undervolted it.

I don't see a problem anymore after reinstalling so I have no idea what RTCore64 might have to do with this since I never overclocked my GPU and am not familiar with it, but please let me know any info about RTCore64 that might have caused this issue.

Colif · Dec 12, 2021

gardenmans script always highlights certain files if it finds them

He answered as I had mentioned him.

both dumps mention Nvidia drivers. So advice still same.

ShangWang · Dec 12, 2021

Colif said:
gardenmans script always highlights certain files if it finds them

both dumps mention Nvidia drivers. So advice still same.

I see, so I'm going to assume the overclock thing was just a suspect at the crime, not that it actually was the issue.

Colif · Dec 12, 2021

Well, given Afterburner can also adjust gpu values, its worth mentioning. It may not be cause though.

A lot of the time crashes don't tell you the cause in the stack text, yours did however
the below is in FILO order, First In, Last Out... meaning the bottom things happened first. Most of its not useful, I am just showing you that your dumps mention Nvidia so no need to guess

STACK_TEXT:
ffffda0e9c6168c0 ffff8d8bb2f56000 : 0000000007980000 8000000000002000 0000000000000000 00000000d1755e00 : nvlddmkm+0x3ea660
ffffda0e9c6168c8 0000000007980000 : 8000000000002000 0000000000000000 00000000d1755e00 ffff8d8bb2f56008 : 0xffff8d8b

b2f56000
ffffda0e

9c6168d0 8000000000002000 : 0000000000000000 00000000d1755e00 ffff8d8bb2f56008 00000000

00000025 : 0x7980000
ffffda0e

9c6168d8 0000000000000000 : 00000000d1755e00 ffff8d8bb2f56008 0000000000000025 0000000000000036 : 0x8000000000002000

last action before crash was Nvidia drivers.

I wish most crashes were this obvious. Most of time Its guessing what cause might be based on what crashed. I have been doing this a while, you start to learn patterns.

ShangWang · Dec 13, 2021

Hi again, I was just curious if you know if it's possible to never get corruption if you're careful.

Although BSOD are caused by an issue rather than making an issue, can a BSOD corrupt a graphics driver? What are the most common ways a graphics driver is corrupted, downloading updates or windows updates?

hotaru.hino · Dec 13, 2021

ShangWang said:
Hi again, I was just curious if you know if it's possible to never get corruption if you're careful.

No, it's impossible to guard against corruption 100% of the time. Assuming you're an average home user, even if you take all the precautions of shutting down properly, etc. the universe really hates us and likes to belch out high energy particles at times. If any of these hit your computer, there's a chance it'll flip a bit.

ShangWang said:
Although BSOD are caused by an issue rather than making an issue, can a BSOD corrupt a graphics driver? What are the most common ways a graphics driver is corrupted, downloading updates or windows updates?

Yes, but there's a very small chance that it could happen because there are many layers of hoops to go through (or should go through) before a driver gets updated.

The driver setup is verified for integrity
The driver gets copied in a driver pool
The file system makes sure the driver is copied more or less correctly (i.e., it won't commit something was written to it unless it passes various checks)
The OS's driver configuration gets updated
Refer to the file system doing its thing again

Question Which is more likely to corrupt the OS, a force shutdown or BSOD?

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