Which option is a better choice?

[compn00b]

I'm either considering getting a Intel 2.4c with a Asus P4P800DX with a 9500 Pro, or getting a AMD xp2500+ with a a7n8x deluxe with a 9800 non pro. these combos are within my budget, so with which combo will i see better performance in games? I'm thinking the amd, but if i get intel i mite have the option of upgrading to prescott later.

 

[simwiz2]

The AMD setup will be faster because of the 9800.

 

[compn00b]

thx for the post, any other opinions?

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Agreed.
The P4 2.4C has WICKED overclockability; however the R9800Pro will give you much more graphical power which will be the BIGGEST diff. between these two systems when playing most games.


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[compn00b]

thx greatape, its a 9800 non pro tho, but i think its the same idea neway

 

[stealth_blade]

its kinda of a trade off, better power in the short term with the AMD, but in the long run the intel system has the prescott option

you should consider when you plan to upgrade next, if youre a frequent upgrader, the intel option makes sense, as you can always put a top of the line card into your system when the next generation comes out and throw in a new processor with it to get the most out of your new card

if you plan to have this system for a couple years w/o upgrades, the AMD option makes more sense

"Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion."
- Gen. (Ret) Norman Schwartzkopf <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by stealth_blade on 08/02/03 04:24 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Spitfire_x86]

AXP 2500+ also has WICKED overclockability. Most of the AXP 2500+'s easily overclock to 2.2 GHz/400 MHz FSB

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[kinney]

I'd take that Nforce2 (the asus is a great one too), barton 2500 and 9800non pro anyday.
That to me is not only my idea of a gamers ideal system but faster than the intel based 9500 pro.

The 2500+ is very fast and can be clocked to 3200+ speeds easily.
You have to also consider the nforce is simply that, an nforce so you get Nvidia Soundstorm with it, so remember your getting a soundcard built in thats on par with a sound blaster audigy!

AMD makes for great gaming systems.

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

 

[phial]

for once kinney isnt retarded

and i agree with him 100%

kidding =)

-------

no siggy applicable

 

[compn00b]

thx guys for ur advice and backing up ur opinions too. but now i found a website where i built 2 custom systems, and i could switch up the 9500 pro for a 9800 non-pro and still be under my budget, and for the amd, change the 9800 non pro to a 9800 Pro and still be under the budget. Does this change ur guys opinions or still AMD?

 

[kinney]

From a financial standpoint, I think sticking with the AMD/9800Pro would be best if you have those options because the jump from a 9800nonpro to a Pro version is about $100 at retail.

While with the Intel/9800nonpro you get a hella jump in peformance in the video card dept, a true 2.4ghz processor and it has the 800mhz fsb so you get a "good one" IMHO.
A much newer, quieter architechure that puts out less heat, although I can't vouch for the newer P4s, mine is a willamette 1.5ghz.

in your new case, I would have to say go P4 and overclock the 9800nonpro to Pro speeds. I CAN NOT verify that a 9800nonpro will reach pro speeds, some guru around here will have to. Just ask, the nerds know

So theres my recommendation which is based entirely off of what I consider the best deal for the money. That doesnt always mean the fastest or the most advanced but in this case both are true for the "new" intel choice.
In areas I would look at 2nd such as heat production (athlons are space heaters), quietness, and the availability of features such as hyperthreading your got the right pick there also.

Some consider the athlon much faster at FPC (floating point calculations), but I cannot attest to this as my P4 is one of the crap ones and is slower than my 1.46 ghz 1700+ by far in every aspect.
Once intel got into the "C" revision or 800mhz fsb P4s like you are looking at, they got worthy of my very tight, limited, frugal dollars.

And as for the sound, yes the bonus still applies to the AMD camp with the soundstorm as it is fantastic.. but I'd trade it for the P4/9800nonpro.. ONLY if nonpros are near a 100% chance of hitting Pro speeds.
Otherwise stick with AMD the 9800 pro (you dont even have to worry about o/cing the GPU if you get the real deal, and since your gaming your primary concern should be the video) and the soundstorm along with the very respectable Barton 2500+, which can 2.2ghz fine and you'll be wiping the floor with a stock clocked 2.4C.

Like I've said the P4 onboard would sound fine but would only go that route if the nonpro could be guaranteed to hit Pro speeds.

The soundstorm is my favorite sound chip in the entire PC market right now for many reasons.. yes even better than a Audigy 2 IMHO. So if you are investing in an expensive set of cans or speakers then stick AMD you get the 9800pro and a great all around system.
And thats one of the best Athlons for overclockability, dare I say, WICKED.

I wish that intel had nforces!

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by kinney on 08/03/03 00:12 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Willamette_sucks]

I'm sorry, kinney, could you explain what you mean by this...
"Some consider the athlon much faster at FPC (floating point calculations), but I cannot attest to this as my P4 is one of the crap ones and is slower than my 1.46 ghz 1700+ by far in every aspect."

By saying that... you ARE atesting to the fact that athlons have better FPC performance!

Also, what do you mean by "quieter architecture". CPUs don't make noise

"Mice eat cheese." - Modest Mouse

"Every Day is the Right Day." -Pink Floyd

 

[kinney]

Hail to my post watcher Willamette Sucks

I messed up, it meant to read like this-
<i>"Some consider the athlon much faster at FPC (floating point calculations), but I cannot attest to this, as my P4 is one of the crap ones, probably not comparable to the newer Pentium 4s..although my 1.5 ghz P4 itself is slower than my 1.46 ghz 1700+ by far in every aspect. But I have no "proof" as this is the only hardware I use daily."</i>

And quieter architechure was the wrong wording but most would understand what I mean. The extra heat generated encourages me to have more case fans for one and they generally have quieter fans on their HS. Most athlon systems I've encountered that are home built have hairdryer noise level fans because they feel the need to protect the Athlon which is usually o/c'd, my first Athlon HS (alpha pal6035) had a 8k rpm 60mm delta fan that was horribly loud.
But some review I read showed lower temps with that fan so I went for it..now I use a vantec aeroflow, highly recommended to any P4/Athlon user if you need a HS/fan I might add.
So quieter architechure, no way, wrong wording, but I think you couldve figured it with the amount of time you spent writing that reply asking, you seem to have enough intelligence to wade through even my posts.



We hope.

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

 

[kinney]

BTW, why dont you add to the THGC photo album, I'd be interested in seeing a man (I'm guessing) of your caliber looks like.

Don't worry I doubt any of us would photochop your pics if your worried about pissing most of us off and getting revenge.. its personally not worth my time and I dont care enough to ever do such a thing.

Now if you are a pencil necked 13 year old I might laugh out loud for a minute, and I certainly couldnt take your "slams" to people as serious anymore but it would surely be hilarious my friend.

And if you are some really overweight unhappy guy (and theres nothing wrong with being overweight if it doesnt make you unhappy), I might laugh and understand your anger against the world.. but I would not assist you in the bombings of any federal buildings or the post office you work at (just me guessing again).
And no offense, and I mean this in no connection to your intelligence, but I would be extremely SHOCKED if you have above a high school education.

Then again, you seem to have way to many answers to not have your PHD yet.
/sarcasm

Whether you agree with peoples opinions or not sometimes you dont add much thats positive to a thread (or even your opinion), and I dont know about you but in my book thats called trolling.
I personally, am used to you. But throw up some pics of THGCs favorite flamer.

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Oh no, now I gotta deal with the Intel/AMD fans. :tongue:

Look I've got AMD in my rig, I'm looking to replace WITH and Athlon 64 (for now, we'll see what is availible at the tim) however I've seen better overclocks on the P42.4C than on the Bartons. Take a look at Virtual Zone's database, and compare <A HREF="http://www.vr-zone.com/guides/Intel/Northwood/page2.htm" target="_new">the 2.4C's overclocking results</A>, to <A HREF="http://www.vr-zone.com/guides/AMD/Barton/" target="_new">those of the XP2500+</A>. Both have respectable OCs, but I'm sure you'll agree that a 4.349GHZ P4 will likely see more performance than an XP2500 runing at 3.257GHZ, cache alone can't make that margin up IMO. Now these are extreme cases, but most I see favour the P4. Here it's a question of 81% increase vs 78% increase.
That's the difference to me, both can be pushed but I see more general OC-ability out of the P4. Of course the above is EXTREME, but even the stck cooler OCs seem to favour the P4, but once again maybe that's just my experience.

I've also seen a wider variance in the range of the XP2500+s where some OC well others don't. Check <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDUz" target="_new">this [H]ard|OCP article</A>, and I agree with the conclusion, and think it's basically what I said above.

Now don't get me wrong I still said I'd take the AMD and the 9800 (I mistakenly said PRO), but the reasoning is diff. you can say they are the same and the basics still don't change. CPU/MOBO wise the P4 combo has more potential (even for the future, AMD is switching platforms), cardwise though the R9800 is the choice, as a future mobo/cpu upgrade is more likely to spawn better reults more than the massive outlay for another VPU/GPU that will only give you small dollar returns, so max the Graphics card spending as it is the safer bet of short-term performance/stability (there is no long term inhardware IMO).

Anywho, that's what meant. I didn't wish to step on peoples toes, I like all 3 of my AMDs, however I do think there are advantages to both CPUs and I stated one of the P4s slight advantages.
Do you disagree with the conclusion that the GPU is more important in these two cases or just in my assesment of 'wicked' that ever so technical term (which I never said the AMD didn't possess some of).

I think you miss the crux of the argument. But so be it, I'll concede that the XP2500+ is also a nice CPU. Fine now all the AMD guys are happy.


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[TheGreatGrapeApe]

With your 'revised' options. I'd say go for the P4, but like you've seen above many people would disagree. I think you will encounter a situation where just like the FX5900 vs R9800 you have people who prefer both for equally 'good' reasons.
My choice would be the P4 because I think the Bartons are running out of headroom quickly, whereas the P4s will likely ride this architecture for a bit longer (I doubt you will see more than one more core after the XP3200+ before they switch to Athlon 64), Whereas the P4 has a fair amount more after the 3.2ghz IMO. Hey but who knows what the futures has in store.
I agree with kinney that it's probably worth the risk of OC'ing the R9800non-pro and getting some performance there, but it IS a risk.

In the end it's up to you, you have my views, and I'm sure you can decide based on the wealth of information provided so far. If it means anything additionally I WAS considering an GA-7NNXP (200 FSB AMD Nforce2 Mobo by Gigabyte) for a brief period before I decided to wait for the Athlon64 to decide.

Good Luck, and See I WAS Right about it being an R9800Pro !


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[Ion]

Just a note, according to lab reports the Prescott spit out over 100W currently so the P4 m/b on the market now may have a problem handling it :tongue: .

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

True, true, there is SOME limited support out there, but my main concern is MOBO first then chip allowing you to spread your transition out over a long period than having to buy both at once like you would have to do with an Opteron. You would likely (almost assuredly) be able to use the 2.4C in a Prescott 'certified' board. In ny case it's a minor concern but a realistic one for many.


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[Willamette_sucks]

TY for the title, but its about as accurate as calling you THGCs favorite Graphics Card guru, or THGCs favorite expert on AMD/Intel CPUs. Hell, while were at it, its about as accurate as calling you a half-way intelligent human being.
'No offense'.

I must say kinney... wow! High-school graduation.. what an achievement. I'm curious, did you ever play football for your high-school? I shouldn't base things off looks, but it also fits with your writing style, that is, the style of writing EXTREMELY BADLY!

FYI I am not a pencil necked 13 yr old, or an unhappy fat guy. I also do not have greater than a high-school education, as I am still IN high school. I'm 16, going to be a junior. I'll get some pics up for you guys sometime soon.

Also your use of the word (and attempted face) 'sarcasm' was used about as correctly as if I said.. Then again kinney, you seem to be one dumb worthless POS, whos presence in this forum means very little to anyone. '/sarcasm'

And since when, oh wise one, have you known or decided, what if any, factor age plays in intelligence or knowledge in a certain area? (And I don't mean the mindless memorization of facts, which although can sometimes be useful, take no creativity, thought, or skill to learn, apart from having a good memory. Besides that it only takes time, of which you have had more of, although I'm not certain you have made good use of that time.)

Eden and daddywags are about my age. Are they idiots too?

"Mice eat cheese." - Modest Mouse

"Every Day is the Right Day." -Pink Floyd

 

[kinney]

LOL
To answer your question, no. Everyone else seems to be pretty respectful of the other people here.
You just happen to act out the 16 year old stereotype unfortunately.

Anyway, HS can be a very hard age to go through, it was for me.
I'm not going to continue attacking you, I think I put enough hidden anger in my last reply to you.
And I never called you an idiot.
But thanks for more delightful comments.
The art of restraint sometimes will help you out a long ways my friend.

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

 

[eden]

I must agree, WS is easy to provoke.

BTW, Scamtron once said something that made sense to me, about mentality online.

From now on, I ain't telling someone of my age or 16- "You're still not mature enough" inclining age and all.
The reality is that a 16 year old can be older than a 30 year old in a forum. So to WS, the only thing I can say is sometimes he acts immaturely and is young. He can use the age factor argument, but I am not. You determine someone's mental age online by his behavior there, not by his age.
Anyways Scammy said it better than I, but what I am trying to say is simply that nobody should anymore refer to someone's maturity by their age. I did it once and am sorry to have said that, but I should've said it Scam's way.
WS is still young I'll say that with all due belief.
But you did take his post very well dude, considering in the past you really overreacted on others' comments. My you've grown! *granny voice*

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[daddywags214]

All I know is that I'm 16 and I'm a FREAKIN' GENIUS!!!

These days, no matter what company you like, be it <b>nVidia, ATi, or whatever,</b> no matter how logical your reasons, you're labeled an <b>idiot</b> or a <b>fanboy</b>, or <b>both.</b>

 

[Willamette_sucks]

Fair 'nuff guys. I agree that sometimes I am easy to provoke. The thing is I'm actually much more mature in real life, and almost NEVER get angry (and other immature things). But hey I'm allowed to be that way aren't I? Sometimes I like getting a little battle on (online), I don't like to take it very far though, and only do it when I truly believe I'm right in the matter. And BTW maturity does not = intelligence, it is important nonetheless, but It is a different thing altogether.

The thing is, you insulted my kinney, and for once, I did not provoke it! I said nothing in this thread that would have provoked you to insult me like that. So, naturally, I defended myself.

"Mice eat cheese." - Modest Mouse

"Every Day is the Right Day." -Pink Floyd

 

[dhlucke]

I definitely am going to call bullshit on this one...

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<font color=red><b>STEP AWAY FROM THE CHEESE!

 

[kinney]

The only reason I took this thread a little further than usual is because I hadnt forgotten about a comment you made in a earlier thread I posted saying something about everything I said was the dumbest sh*t you'd heard.. yada yada. So I wanted to shoot razors back at ya, but you are the favorite attack dog at THGC forum and I'm sure a poll on that would confirm this.. and thats not a bad thing.
At least your not the forum pussy who always backs down!

I think I said earlier I respect a no back down attitude to an extent and find it an admirable quality. I think I told you this one other time.

Anyway, you can act any way you want to act, I honestly like everyone in these forums and appreciate everyone for their individuality.

I agree, maturity/age/intelligence are 3 unrelated fields.
Seem to be the majority of the population lack in both the former and the latter departments.
Not being a big fan of condescending adults myself, age is the easiest of all 3 to get and the first thing people use against you when they lack the other 2.

Before you brutalize me on that point, notice I said in my "slam" that you are either a 13 yr old pencilneck or a fat, old unhappy guy that works at the post office LOL...
so apparantly I feel the same as you on the matter, the being young part seemed to be the one that got to ya.
I feel looks also weigh little on the scale, you'll never hear me ripping a regular at THGC for a photo he posts. Even that Svol, who has gotten ripped silly over his photo

Though I'm not British (does british descent count?), cheers mate.

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500