Question Windows 11 is slow even in Safe Mode, even after formatting, fresh install and updating ?

[Mahesh Abnave]

My cousin bought Mi Notebook 14. It has i5-10210U, 8GB 2666MHz DDR4 RAM, SATA3 SSD by Kingston. Recently it got very slow. The task manager kept showing less than 20% CPU utilization. Also, less memory usage. Still the performance is noticeably slow. Each click / UI interaction was laggy. Opening a folder in file explorer, opening a new tab in file explorer / Microsoft Edge, opening paint, everything shows a processing ring at least for a second and two before completing.

I have installed Windows 11 Single Language Update 23H2, but was of no help. I updated it to latest update (24H2 and all latest update provided by Microsoft), still no help. I tried disabling many things: unnecessary apps (Email etc), transparency, disk encryption, unnecessary boot processes. Nothing helped. I tried booting into Safe Mode. But even in Safe Mode similar lag is noticeable. Some process processes like MsMpEng.exe, Tiworker.exe, dwm.exe always consume some resources. But CPU was always < 20%, Memory utilization was <= 60% and disk utilization was always barely 1%.

I have also tried following commands as recommeded by some online articles:

1. sfc /scannow
2. DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHwHealth
3. chkdsk /f /r C:

But none helped !

I have been using Windows since Windows 95, but never found it so difficult to troubleshoot !

Should I do any of the following:

1. Install Windows 22H2 to check if the newer updates are culprits? Since quick google says both updates 24H2 ([1],[2],[3],[4])) and 23H2 ([1],[2],[3],[4]) have been buggy.
2. Install Ubuntu to check if Windows drivers for this machine have been screwed?
3. Try swapping SATA SSD with another PC's SATA SSD with Windows for quick check? If this works, then at least SSD is bad or Windows is bad, but rest of the hardware is fine.

Is there any easier way to fix the issue, before taking above drastic / time consuming steps?

PS
When I tried checking health of my disk in CrystalDiskInfo, it showed unknown health status. Even Transcend SSD managers dont detect the SSD. Here is the screenshot of the CrystalDiskInfo: link

 

[Lutfij]

1| Where are you sourcing the installers for the OS?
2| Are you installing the OS in offline mode?
3| Is your Notebook pending any BIOS updates?

 

[SkyNetRising]

My cousin bought Mi Notebook 14. It has i5-10210U, 8GB 2666MHz DDR4 RAM, SATA3 SSD by Kingston.
Recently it got very slow.

Check cpu and gpu temperatures. Overheating will throttle performance.
You can use MSI afterburner for temperature monitoring.
Also Coretemp. Task Manager would show gpu temperature.

Check Device Manager and see, if there are any devices with yellow exclamation marks.
Make sure you install chipset drivers.

Should I do any of the following:

1. Install Windows 22H2 to check if the newer updates are culprits? Since quick google says both updates 24H2 ([1],[2],[3],[4])) and 23H2 ([1],[2],[3],[4]) have been buggy.
2. Install Ubuntu to check if Windows drivers for this machine have been screwed?
3. Try swapping SATA SSD with another PC's SATA SSD with Windows for quick check? If this works, then at least SSD is bad or Windows is bad, but rest of the hardware is fine.

1. No.
2. May be.
3. Absolutely no.

 

[Mahesh Abnave]

1| Where are you sourcing the installers for the OS?
2| Are you installing the OS in offline mode?
3| Is your Notebook pending any BIOS updates?

1. Original OS was factory installed. I tried formatting and reinstalling twice. At first attempt, I re-installed 24H2 downloaded from microsoft website. Then I formatted and installed 23H2 downloaded from archive.org. Both gave lag.

2. Both times I created bootable USB using rufus from downloaded ISOs. I guess thats offline mode?

3. I haven't check BIOS updates. Need to figure out how to do that for this laptop ...

 

[COLGeek]

This sounds like a hardware issue. I think @SkyNetRising is on the right track.

What are the CPU and GPU operating temperatures at idle and under load? Are the fans running normally?

This could also be a defective SSD. That would require replacement.

 

[Mahesh Abnave]

1| Where are you sourcing the installers for the OS?
2| Are you installing the OS in offline mode?
3| Is your Notebook pending any BIOS updates?

Regarding BIOS, MI's website is a bit confusing. This is the only webpage on their site which talks about BIOS:
https://www.mi.com/in/support/guida...dzLw8xQuCAT7Vl62Q4oXHv9Ezle01okJVeSRAgSbfnFOX

It has heading "Mi Notebook 14". But immediately below that heading there are sub-headings:

• REDMIBOOK WINDOWS 10
• REDMIBOOK WINDOWS 11
• MI NOTEBOOK ULTRA WINDOWS 10
• MI NOTEBOOK ULTRA WINDOWS 11

All these subheadings have BIOS zip download link. But there is no separate BIOS link for "MI notebook 14" which is what I am trying to fix.

I checked CPU Z and it shows following in BIOS section:
Brand: TIMI
Version: XMRCM400P0904
Date: 04/01/2020

I tried googling and got following link: https://linux-hardware.org/?id=bios:timi-xmrcm400p0904-04-01-2020
It says its for "MI Notebook 14"

The same site seem to have webpage for 5 month (05-06-2020) newer version for the same machine: https://linux-hardware.org/?id=bios:timi-xmrcm400p0a04-05-06-2020

But am not sure whether I should be downloading it and in fact there is no downloading link onf linux-hardware.org.

So now am struggling for finding correct BIOS update for this machine. But for sure the BIOS seems never updated !

 

[cruisetung]

Change Power Options in control panel to High Performance and reboot

see if it helps. Also check Event Viewer see if there is anything that's abnormal

And what's the CPU frequency it's running at? Check task manager, CPU performance

Like this

 

[Mahesh Abnave]

This sounds like a hardware issue. I think @SkyNetRising is on the right track.

What are the CPU and GPU operating temperatures at idle and under load? Are the fans running normally?

This could also be a defective SSD. That would require replacement.

Processor Temperatures are < 40C when this slow down happens.
Here is the screen shot: link
Fans are silent and laptop is cool. I could not find GPU temperature in Core Temp and Task Manager. But I believe it should not be high given < 3% load as can be seen in Task Manager.

Whenever I open new tab in file explorer, it lags even though CPU utilization stays below 10% and 50% memory is free. (I tried by halving screen with task manager on left and file explorer on right). One small observation, everytime I open new tab or open a folder, process "CTF loader" moves up in Task Manager Processes tab when processes are sorted by CPU utilization column. I dont know if that can be of any indication since overall CPU utilization stays below 10%.

Regarding SSD, I said following in original post: "When I tried checking health of my disk in CrystalDiskInfo, it showed unknown health status. Even Transcend SSD managers dont detect the SSD. Here is the screenshot of the CrystalDiskInfo: link"

What can I do to check SSD health?

 

[Mahesh Abnave]

Check cpu and gpu temperatures. Overheating will throttle performance.
You can use MSI afterburner for temperature monitoring.
Also Coretemp. Task Manager would show gpu temperature.

Check Device Manager and see, if there are any devices with yellow exclamation marks.
Make sure you install chipset drivers.

1. No.
2. May be.
3. Absolutely no.

Processor Temperatures are < 40C when this slow down happens.
Here is the screen shot: link
Fans are silent and laptop is cool. I could not find GPU temperature in Core Temp and Task Manager. But I believe it should not be high given < 3% load as can be seen in Task Manager.

Whenever I open new tab in file explorer, it lags even though CPU utilization stays below 10% and 50% memory is free. (I tried by halving screen with task manager on left and file explorer on right). One small observation, everytime I open new tab or open a folder, process "CTF loader" moves up in Task Manager Processes tab when processes are sorted by CPU utilization column. I dont know if that can be of any indication since overall CPU utilization stays below 10%.

No exclamation mark in Device manager: device manager screenshot

I have updated Windows and ensured that there are no more updates available. Shouldn't updating Windows update device drivers?

 

[Mahesh Abnave]

Change Power Options in control panel to High Performance and reboot

see if it helps. Also check Event Viewer see if there is anything that's abnormal

And what's the CPU frequency it's running at? Check task manager, CPU performance

I guess I found something fishy.

First something non fishy: I plugged in the laptop, set power option to "Best performance" in both cases, plugged-in and on-battery. Still no help. Power options screen shot.

Now some fishy things:

First, there are indeed some Errors in Event Viewer > Windows Logs > System section. Here is evtx file explorted from event viewer: download link
Here is link to screen shot of event viewer with Error events filtered: events-viewer-screenshot.

Second, in task manager, CPU speed (0.4 GHz) is indeed stuck way below base speed (2.11 GHz). (screenshot) This is even after I have changed power plan to "best performance" and plugged in the laptop to power source. I tried running videos, opening multiple browser tab, youtube videos while continuously monitoring TaskManager in split-screen-mode, but the speed does not go above 0.4 GHz even at once. In CPU-Z too, Core speed is limited to 399.xx MHz to 398.xx MHz. Also I guess that is why my overall CPU utilization is getting stuck at < 20% since 0.4 GHz is approx 20% of 2.11 GHz !

So now am thinking what would be bigger culprit, errors in event viewer or CPU speed getting stuck at 0.4 GHz.

I feel CPU speed getting limited to 0.4 GHz is the bigger concern and I should focus on it first. Am I right with this?

How do I fix it? Also am wondering what might have limited CPU speed to 0.4 GHz !?

 

[cruisetung]

Don't know if this is the reason?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-gA7yoWD_I

 

[Mahesh Abnave]

Don't know if this is the reason?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-gA7yoWD_I

As suggested on this webpage, I navigated to registry Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\intelppm, and changed the "Start" value to 4, and restarted the laptop. Now the CPU speed in increased to base speed of 2.11 Hz, but it never crosses 2.11 Hz. The laptop has i5-10210U processor which has following:

• Max Turbo Frequency 4.20 GHz
• Processor Base Frequency 1.60 GHz
• Configurable TDP-up Base Frequency 2.10 GHz
• Configurable TDP-down Base Frequency 800 MHz

as per Intel's processor page.

So, I feel the Turbo boost is disabled.

I checked the BIOS, but this machine's BIOS is very very simple. It does not show anything about Turbo Boost ! This is also discussed in this video and this post. So, I am not even able to confirm whether Turbo Boost is enabled or not. I tried installing three different versions of Intel XTU, but it keeps saying installed on unsupported platform after some percentage of installation process completes. (I am on Windows 11 24H2). Then I tried to fiddle with ThrottleStop, to check if I can enable Turbo Boost. But no help.

Now am guessing what solutions I have left with. Any suggestions?

(PS: I know all Android manufacturers downclock mobile CPUs after few years to force people buy new phones. Samsung, Apple, HTC has been fined millions of dollar by EU in the past for this battery gate. Are they replicating the same in Laptops ?!)

 

[cruisetung]

See if change plugged in power to 100% works

https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/use-maximum-cpu-power-windows-10

Btw, do not post images to imgbb, a lot of time I'm not able to see the images, or it's extremely slow to show up, other members might have same difficulty too. Please post them to imgur.com

 

[COLGeek]

(PS: I know all Android manufacturers downclock mobile CPUs after few years to force people buy new phones. Samsung, Apple, HTC has been fined millions of dollar by EU in the past for this battery gate. Are they replicating the same in Laptops ?!)

No. This is not the case here.

Fresh installs of Windows did not solve the problem, so we are back to defective hardware. Try another SSD, but I suspect the issue is the motherboard (where pretty much everything is integrated.

Is this device still using its original thermal paste/pads? If so, those could need replaced. Inspecting the fans for debris/clogging would be a good idea as well.

 

[Mahesh Abnave]

No. This is not the case here.

Fresh installs of Windows did not solve the problem, so we are back to defective hardware. Try another SSD, but I suspect the issue is the motherboard (where pretty much everything is integrated.

Is this device still using its original thermal paste/pads? If so, those could need replaced. Inspecting the fans for debris/clogging would be a good idea as well.

Have you gone through the whole conversation. Just to summarise, I have found in the Task Manager that the CPU speed was shown 0.4 GHz while base speed was shown as 2.11 GHz. The CPU utilization was also always < 20%. screenshot Turns out 0.4 is approx 20% of 2.11 GHz !

I changed a registry value and now the task manager shows CPU speed as 2.11 GHz, but now it does not go beyond it at all. It should go above base speed of 2.11 GHz when Turbo Boost is enabled but that does not seem to be the case !

Now I am trying to figure out how can I enable Turbo Boost since the BIOS of this laptop does not give any option to do so.

 

[SkyNetRising]

I have found in the Task Manager that the CPU speed was shown 0.4 GHz while base speed was shown as 2.11 GHz.
The CPU utilization was also always < 20%. screenshot Turns out 0.4 is approx 20% of 2.11 GHz !
Now I am trying to figure out how can I enable Turbo Boost since the BIOS of this laptop does not give any option to do so.

Your cpu has configurable TDP. It can be limited to 25W, 15W or 10W.
So - laptop manufacturer specifies max TDP allowed based on cooling capacity of the laptop.

If there is no load on cpu, it will remain in low power/low frequency state.
Put some load on cpu, run CPU-Z benchmark.
Frequency should shoot to max.

 

[COLGeek]

Have you gone through the whole conversation. Just to summarise, I have found in the Task Manager that the CPU speed was shown 0.4 GHz while base speed was shown as 2.11 GHz. The CPU utilization was also always < 20%. screenshot Turns out 0.4 is approx 20% of 2.11 GHz !

I changed a registry value and now the task manager shows CPU speed as 2.11 GHz, but now it does not go beyond it at all. It should go above base speed of 2.11 GHz when Turbo Boost is enabled but that does not seem to be the case !

Now I am trying to figure out how can I enable Turbo Boost since the BIOS of this laptop does not give any option to do so.

Yes, I read the previous information. If this is still happening AFTER clean installations of Windows, there is an underlying problem. Likely heat and/or power related.

@SkyNetRising may be on to something, but a work around (modify registry) should not be necessary to configure a CPU if the hardware is working properly.

There was also the issue of the SSD. That should have been able to be detected properly, regardless.

 

[Mahesh Abnave]

Don't know if this is the reason?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-gA7yoWD_I

Thank you all guys here who helped me ...
It turns out the adapter might indeed be faulty as suggested in the video shared by @cruisetung .
Somehow the adapters or cheap sensors on motherboard send signal to Windows that adapter is bad and Windows ends up downclocking the processor frequencies to 10% !
This signal is called BD PROCHOT. Disabling this signal using ThrottleStop software fixes the issue.

Now am wondering will it be dangerous to turn off the signal as what if the adapter is really super faulty to screw up the laptop motherboard. Wont it not fail to send down clocking signal. The answer is no, there are other signals which also get fired to slow down processor. This is what following comments say: this comment and this comment.

However, when I disabled the signal, the checkbox in ThrottleStop went grey. Meaning I was not able to re-enable it. Seems that there might be some bug.

Regardless, the issue is resolved, though I am yet to try new adapter or try this adapter with other laptop. I dont have any spare compatible adapter or laptop.

 

[Mahesh Abnave]

Another update:

When the machine is restarted, the machine works well for few seconds. But it slows down again. So I quickly started task manager and found that initially core frequencies are not capped (used to go as high as 4 GHz), but after some seconds (or a minute) the frequencies gets capped to 0.4 GHz.

Now if I start ThrottleStop again, the frequencies gets un-capped and again start hitting 4 GHz and they stay un-capped even if I close ThrottleStop.

On next restart I have to repeat above manually. Adding ThrottleStop to startup did not help.

And I carried out above experiments without charger / adapter connected. So, now am guessing what exactly is the culprit here. Definitely not the adapter. But most probably bad sensor?