WINDOWS XP RANDOMLY RESETTING EVERYWHERE!

forgettythatty · Feb 27, 2002

And all this time I thought I might be alone:
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014769505 http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1009422511 http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014548338 http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014574705 http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014512585 http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014389765 http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014232358 http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014227615 http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1013961577 http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1013823935

Toejam31 · Feb 27, 2002

A little help on the clickable end of things:

<A HREF="http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014769505" target="_new">http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014769505</A>
<A HREF="http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1009422511" target="_new">http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1009422511</A>
<A HREF="http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014548338" target="_new">http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014548338</A>
<A HREF="http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014574705" target="_new">http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014574705</A>
<A HREF="http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014512585" target="_new">http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014512585</A>
<A HREF="http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014389765" target="_new">http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014389765</A>
<A HREF="http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014232358" target="_new">http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014232358</A>
<A HREF="http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014227615" target="_new">http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1014227615</A>
<A HREF="http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1013961577" target="_new">http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1013961577</A>
<A HREF="http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1013823935" target="_new">http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/n1013823935</A>

(Just to make it easier for everyone to take a look at the posts, forgettythatty.)

As for the problem ... I think you can boil it down to three separate areas:

One - The BIOS
Two - A Driver (or an IRQ conflict)
Three - Incompatible Software.

This is assuming that your system is relatively modern (say, assembled with new components within the last 18 months), that you have a decent, heavy-duty PSU, and have the system is on a working surge protector or a UPS. AND ... that you are not experiencing any issues due to heat. AND ... that your hard drive(s) are intact, with no bad sectors. AND ... that you have decent memory installed, with no timing issues, and that each module is viable. (This includes the FSB speed, and any jumper settings.) Finally ... that the system doesn't harbor a virus.

Have to rule these things out, ya know.

Here's the deal. I'm running WinXP Pro on my second Rig, and I'm not experiencing the restart problem. I know that this is not any help to you, but it is an indicator that if the BIOS is up-to-date, that if the drivers are the latest, if there are no IRQ conflicts, and if the software installed on the system is patched ... the operating system should have only minor, typical Windows bugs that come with a new release; none of which appear to cause random rebooting. Of course, the OS must be patched (and I recommend doing this manually, instead of with the automatic Windows Update), and unnecessary Services not needed for a stand-alone system should be set on manual or disabled.

I'd really like to help you figure out the source of the problem, but I'm going to need some specifications about your system. And there will be more than one person looking at this post ... so perhaps someone else will come up with a solution, even if I'm stumped.

The more details you list, the better the chance of figuring out the problem. This is includes the BIOS type, version, and date. All internal components, with the driver versions currently installed ... including the chipset. Any third-party software you personally installed, and if it has been patched.

If you can think of what you were doing when the system began to reboot .. that would be a help. And also consider when it occurred ... what was the last installation you made before the problem started? Was it a program, or did you update a driver? Have you seen any error messages in the Event Viewer that might help identify the problem? Was it before or after running Windows Update? Was this an upgrade, or a clean installation? Etc, etc.

Be specific as you can, forgettythatty, and perhaps one of us can help you figure out what is going on. We'll give it the old college try, anyway.

Toejam31

My Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</A>
Second Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new">Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</A>
____________________________________________________________

"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

Guest · Feb 28, 2002

By default XP is set to automatically restart on a system failure instead of displaying a BSD. If you right click on My computer go to Properties > Advanced Tab > go to ‘Startup and Recovery’ and uncheck the ‘automatically restart on a system failure’. This will not fix the problem but you should at least be able to tell what is causing the system to crash.

vetplus40 · Feb 28, 2002

That is a nice addition to the software.The only problem is you have to be able to reach the settings to change them.After I downloaded some "new" drivers,mine did the reboot thingy.The only problem was that mine did it upon windows start up,I never could get to any settings to change them.

If ya don't ask..How ya gonna know.

forgettythatty · Feb 28, 2002

I appreciate your willingness to try to track down the problem, but I'm afraid it will be of no use.

I know that windows 2000 and 98se work fine on the computer. and for the moment I believe the answer to the random reset problem is very simple,

They are all random blue screens cause by bugs in the os or drivers, and winxp was hiding the blue screens because when it gets a blue screen it just resets. so anyway, I'm going to try to give you some info on what those blue screens say.

Toejam31 · Feb 28, 2002

"I appreciate your willingness to try to track down the problem, but I'm afraid it will be of no use."

Maybe that's true. It could be an exercise in futility. But then again, some of us here at THGC do this for a living, and we've fixed a problem or two in the past. Perhaps we'll get lucky this time. It's worth a shot!

I recall a very similar situation occurring when other Microsoft operating systems were newly released... all the way from Windows 3.0 to Win2K. In the earlier operating systems, you had to know how to edit the .ini files and allocate the memory. In the newest versions, how to tweak the system for performance, and nail down issues with drivers.

It can be tedious ... and even highly frustrating. But it can be done.

Just because you've seen a couple of dozen people yelling on a forum doesn't mean that everyone is having problems. If you think about it ... those people without issues are the ones who aren't hollering! So don't be defeated. With computers, what is necessary is the ability to concentrate and document the problems. The best advice I can give someone when troubleshooting ... be meticulous. This is technology ... and the scientific method is best.

"I know that windows 2000 and 98se work fine on the computer. and for the moment I believe the answer to the random reset problem is very simple,

They are all random blue screens cause by bugs in the os or drivers, and winxp was hiding the blue screens because when it gets a blue screen it just resets. so anyway, I'm going to try to give you some info on what those blue screens say."

Good ... post everything you see in the blue screens.

You are probably right about the source of the problem ... it's likely to be driver-related. And that means, if you can discover which driver, you can stop the resets. Sometimes this kind of error is caused by just one file, one driver, or one program. Upgrade the driver, delete the file, or patch the program, and the problem goes away.

I was afraid of something like this happening when people began to upgrade from Win9x to WinXP. Most of the people who have a lot of familiarity with tweaking and running Win2K are not seeing much that is different, and are used to evaluating the error messages ... but it's a completely different story with the Win9x users; many of whom do not have a great deal of experience tracking down issues with drivers in an unforgiving 32-bit OS. Or figuring out what to do if the system begins to randomly reboot.

For instance, one of the very first things I do is disable the memory dumps and the restarting-due-to-errors feature of the OS after a clean installation. That's standard in Win2K, and the same thing applies to WinXP. But a Win9x user wouldn't have any idea of how to go about this, because the option isn't available in the older operating systems.

(I didn't say anything about it in my previous post, because the users in the posts you listed from the Annoyances Forum mentioned it about ten times. It would have been hard to ignore.)

You should be made aware that the information in those BSOD's are searchable ... and that there are thousands of entries in the MS Knowledge Base on errors like this. There's not a great deal of info available yet for WinXP ... but with a similar kernel, nearly everything that pertains to Win2K is also applicable to WinXP.

The best way to search the error message or Event ID number is through <A HREF="http://www.google.com/advanced_search" target="_new">Google</A>. You can choose to search microsoft.com, and find the information in the Knowledge Base pertaining to the error.

Toejam31

My Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</A>
Second Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new">Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</A>
____________________________________________________________

"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

Toejam31 · Feb 28, 2002

You might find some helpful information that's applicable to your problem on this page:

<A HREF="http://www2.cajun.net/~theriots/blk/win_xp_restart.htm" target="_new">Windows XP Boot Problems & Edits</A>

Toejam31

My Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</A>
Second Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new">Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</A>
____________________________________________________________

"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

forgettythatty · Mar 1, 2002

Well one machine was resetting due to this infinate loop error:

http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=64
using the 23.12 WHQL drivers on an intel chipset with all the latest updates (except we used the built in winxp chipset drivers)

the other one I just fired up again and there has been a ton of updates since I tried it last that might just fix the problem. winxp is currently my OS that I'm just waiting for a BSOD in.

Toejam31 · Mar 1, 2002

I haven't ever used the default chipset drivers in WinXP or Win2K for any longer than absolutely necessary.

In Win2K, as soon as the OS installation is complete, I install Service Pack 2, the chipset drivers, and DirectX 8.1. Next, I patch the OS with any hotfixes, including Security updates. Then I install all other drivers (sound card, modem, etc), finishing with the nVidia 23.11 driver. Then I disable or set to manual many of the Services, especially the nVidia Driver Helper Service. Don't think twice ... kill this Service.

I always install the video card driver last. It seems to help avoid driver conflicts.

You'll find a lot of good information about which Services actually need to run on this <A HREF="http://www.blkviper.com/index.html" target="_new">website</A>. Check out the menu on the right under "OS info!"

In WinXP, the first installation is the chipset drivers, any available AGP driver updates, and then patches to the operating system. Then, all other drivers ... and again, finishing with the video card driver, which is 23.12.

In these two operating systems, the sequence used to install drivers and updates is more important than many people realize. It's not just installing the updates and latest drivers ... it's when. Start installing these items randomly, and you'll be looking at some funky blue screens.

When installing the video card driver in WinXP, upgrade the 12.40 driver to the 23.11 ... manually. Do not use the Setup.exe in the installation file. Instead ... right-click, drag-n-drop, and extract the drivers into a new folder, and then upgrade the older drivers in the Device Manager by browsing to the folder.

Then ... use Windows Update to upgrade the 23.11 driver to 23.12.

This method will avoid the infinite loop error ... if the chipset and AGP drivers are upgraded before you begin.

You should always upgrade a video card driver manually, whenever possible, for best results. And chipset drivers should be updated before anything else. This includes any AGP drivers for non-Intel systems. This only exception to this is the Second Service Pack in Win2K ... then the latest chipset drivers.

I've read that there are all sorts of incompatibilities between VIA chipsets, GeForce2 cards, and nVidia drivers ... especially in WinXP. But it's not giving me a problem. And I'm certain this is because I installed the drivers in the correct sequence. It hasn't failed me yet.

Note: With Intel chipsets, first install the Intel Chipset Software Installation Utility. Second, the Intel Ultra ATA Storage Driver. Third ... the Intel Application Accelerator (if your chipset supports this.)

Before installing anything, extract the Ultra ATA Storage Driver into a folder. The Chipset Software Installation Utility may require a file from this folder.

Two caveats. One ... the Intel Application Accelerator may not install correctly unless the Ultra ATA Storage Driver is detected on the system. Two ... not all optical devices will function correctly with the Application Accelerator. If your optical device cannot be detected (i.e. missing a drive letter) after adding the Application Accelerator, do this:

"Update" the IDE controller drive to a standard IDE controller, which is usually a Busmastering driver. This should allow the optical device to be redetected and assigned a drive letter.

Then start upgrading the chipset drivers again. But do not add the Application Accelerator.

I've noticed that older Creative optical drives are incompatible with this newest driver set.

Toejam31

Final Note: When using Windows Update in WinXP ... do NOT use <A HREF="http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article03-002" target="_new">automatic updates</A>. Install only the updates that are necessary, and examine them carefully. The Update site has been known to make some mistakes, and misidentify hardware on a system ... such as installing Intel drivers on a VIA board. Be cautious.

My Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</A>
Second Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new">Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</A>
____________________________________________________________

"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

Toejam31 · Mar 1, 2002

One last thing, and then I'm done for the night.

With newer operating systems, one of the last things that people generally consider is a BIOS update.

When installing WinXP, the very first thing a user should do is flash the BIOS (with anything other than brand spanking-new hardware.) And sometimes, even with that!

After the flash, the CMOS should be cleared (if the board has jumpers for this) and then reset to normal. Always get grounded before doing this, and be sure to unplug the system from all power sources during the process.

Next ... the BIOS settings should be set to optimal (with any user preferences) and then the hard drives should be scanned, partitioned and formatted. This helps eliminate any possible bad sectors on the drives ... even if the drives will be formatted again during the OS installation.

Doing this will often eliminate or avoid otherwise indecipherable errors with WinXP, especially during the installation.

That's my 15 cent opinion. LOL!

Toejam31

P.S. It's always a good idea before flashing the BIOS to document the settings on paper. And with some BIOS versions, there is a setting that must be enabled to make it temporarily flashable. Look for this before attempting the flash, or it might fail, and/or you might experience checksum errors.

Always backup the old BIOS before flashing to a new one. Always ... no exceptions.

My Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</A>
Second Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new">Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</A>
____________________________________________________________

"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

btvillarin · Mar 1, 2002

Can I publish this?

In all seriousness, you really write well, and everything you say is backed up with explanation. Can I copy this and put it on my website? (Credit, of course, goes to you always.)

If you made 10 bucks every time you made a thorough post, I think you'd be pretty rich. :lol:

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/btvillarin" target="_new">My Website</A>-reorganized & updated everyday

Toejam31 · Mar 1, 2002

Hey, man ... if I've posted anything you think might be useful -- go with it. I just like to help other people have a decent computing experience. That's the best part of my job, and why I post on various forums.

You can make some good friends this way, too.

I really don't care about the "credit". Information is free, and belongs to everyone. But I'll take the ten bucks, if someone is feeling generous!

LOL!

See ya ...

Toey

My Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</A>
Second Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new">Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</A>
____________________________________________________________

"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

Toejam31 · Mar 1, 2002

You can often repair problems like this by hitting F8 just as Windows begins to boot. Then you can either attempt to start the operating system in Safe Mode and remove the drivers, or restore the Last Known Good Configuration.

This pages might provide some useful information if you ever find yourself in a similiar situation in the future:

<A HREF="http://www.aumha.org/a/shtdwnxpz.htm" target="_new">Windows XP Shutdown & Restart Troubleshooting</A>

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q314503" target="_new">Computer Stops Responding with a Black Screen When You Start Windows (Q314503)</A>

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q306084" target="_new">HOW TO: Restore the Operating System to a Previous State in Windows XP (Q306084)</A>

<A HREF="http://www2.cajun.net/~theriots/blk/win_xp_tshoot.htm" target="_new">Troubleshooting Windows XP</A>

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q314058" target="_new">Description of the Windows XP Recovery Console (Q314058)</A>

<A HREF="http://www.jsiinc.com/SUBI/tip4300/rh4364.htm" target="_new">JSI FAQ - How do I restore Windows XP to a previous state?</A>

Later ...

Toejam31

My Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</A>
Second Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new">Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</A>
____________________________________________________________

"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

btvillarin · Mar 1, 2002

You're tha man, Toey! What I plan to do is collect as many useful forum threads as I can (from both Anandtech and THG), and post their respective links onto my site. If the posts themselves are lengthy, then I'll post a short description of what the main text of the problem and the assistance gives.

Once again, just to let you know, it's nice to know that someone like you is around to keep us going.

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/btvillarin" target="_new">My Website</A>-reorganized & updated everyday

btvillarin · Mar 5, 2002

Ya know what? We have yet to hear from forgettythatty about his problem. Brutal. You try to help someone out, and they don't even give you feedback on their progress. *sigh*

Anyway, Toey - I posted a link to this thread, plus I'm in the progress of writing a Windows installation methodology, based on your experience. Next time I do a clean install, I'll do it your way. Thanks again!

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/btvillarin" target="_new">My Website</A>-reorganized & updated everyday

cnknudson · Mar 6, 2002

Maybe he got his problem fixed, but I haven't solved mine...

I too have this problem, and I've been all over and done many things trying to solve it. To wit: Scanned for viruses; "agressive" & "passive" RAM settings, removing RAM, RAM in different slots; AGP drivers from the past through the present; WinXP re-installation (although not the suggested order for installation mentioned above--maybe that next); USB support on & off; RAID enabled & disabled; and, of course, WinXP tweaks. Since some people have been having problems with the IEEE 1394 on the AIW 8500DV I have that disabled throught the DIP switches on the AGP board.

I have not yet flashed the BIOS, and am one revision behind. I'll try that too, though.

Just a few minutes ago the latest event. I went to google as suggested and looked up the STOP error (0x000000E3) presented on the BSoD. This is it:

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q282522" target="_new">http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q282522</A>

It speaks of a fix for Win2K through service pack 2. I am running WinXP and I am up to date with updates.

BTW, I have four machines running WinXP, two laptops and two desktops; this is the only machine that has this problem. The other machines are at least one year old or more. This machine (see sig.) was recently assembled.

Although not listed below, I have conditioned power through APC and an Antec 350W PS. Also installed are Yamaha CRW2100E & Mitsumi FX322M. They have the latest firmware updates. I have removed all other hardware.

I was wondering if it had to do with the VIA KT266A chipset, but in my travels I see many mobos described, and although I didn't look all of them up, surely they cannot all be VIA based. Can they? I even saw someone on another frum suggest it was the Crucial RAM. I hope not, since I have a lot of that and the price is escalating!

So, any more ideas?

Thanks,

Carl

SY-K7V Dragon+
Ath. XP 1600+
1GB PC2100 2*256 1*512
20GB & 2*40GB (RAID 0)
98SE & XP

Toejam31 · Mar 8, 2002

Is your RAM ECC?

Many DDR boards require that with more than two modules installed, the memory must be ECC.

Toejam31

My Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</A>
Second Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new">Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</A>
____________________________________________________________

"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

cnknudson · Mar 8, 2002

Toejam,

Is your RAM ECC?

Many DDR boards require that with more than two modules installed, the memory must be ECC.

No, it is not. The board manufacturer makes no stipulation about the RAM where ECC is concerned. I tried to mitigate any three slot RAM issue by removing one of the RAM sticks and rearranging the other two into the first two slots.

Yesterday I updated the to the latest BIOS, which Soyo describes thus:


K7VX Dragon Plus 2MB BIOS Files

kvxa2ba2.bin
checksum:716F
release date:
(01/02/2002)

BIOS Revision: K7VXA_2BA2
Changes: Support "Athlon 2000+"
cpu, solve RAM compatibility (3 DIMM). 

Since then I have experienced only two BSoDs. One had an error of 0x0000007F, (I missed the trailing information), and one of MULTIPLE_IRP_COMPLETE_REQUESTS 0x00000044 (0x853F23C8, 0x00001B90, 0x00000000, 0x00000000). I have also had numerous application stop errors, all 0xc00000005. (I didn't copy all of the other information down.)

I'm not a coder, but I imagine the numbers following the stop error are addresses or such. I'm wondering if there is a utility that can show me what drivers are running, and what adresses each uses so that I can see if there is some commonality to the stop error information.

Today I will also re-install WinXP. I will do a "clean" install, and FDISK the drive. I will avoid the dual boot I had previously. I'll also adhere to your recommendations above.

Thanks for the suggestions, and I look forward to any further assistance!

Carl

SY-K7V Dragon+
Ath. XP 1600+
1GB PC2100 2*256 1*512
20GB & 2*40GB (RAID 0)
98SE & XPEdited by cnknudson on 03/08/02 01:16 PM.

cnknudson · Mar 10, 2002

I zeroed the HDD and re-installed WinXP as described above.

No random reboot yesterday.

Fingers crossed!

Carl

SY-K7V Dragon+
Ath. XP 1600+
1GB PC2100 2*256 1*512
20GB & 2*40GB (RAID 0)
98SE & XP

jc14all · Mar 10, 2002

I've been reading your threads...and you always provide valuable input in all your post. As a member of THGC, I just want to say...Thank you. Just like OldBear's signature of the century

.

Cast your vote with your $, shed your pride with your opinion.

Toejam31 · Mar 10, 2002

Thanks for the compliment!

I always try to help if I can find the time, and I do my best to give out useful information.

I enjoy being part of the community. It's a great place to keep up with the latest, and to learn new things. It's a never-ending challenge.

Thanks again ... that makes it all worthwhile!

Toey

My Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</A>
Second Rig: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new">Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</A>
____________________________________________________________

"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

WINDOWS XP RANDOMLY RESETTING EVERYWHERE!

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