With Sinofsky Gone, Start Menu Could Return to Windows 8

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I like that Sinofsky is gone. Quickly reading over his blog entries makes it clear that he had a lot to do with that Metro abomination. I hate how he makes assumptions about the users of Windows rather than actually attempting to get a comprehensive view of all OS users. Not everyone turns on the MCEIP. Enterprise environments in particular don't turn that on. I don't understand the race to imitate iOS or inability to avoid repeating the same mistakes that Gnome 3 made. This isn't uncharted territory. Doing stupid things like hiding shutdown is intolerable. Full screen overlays get in the way. People want multiple monitors and multiple items on their screens at once. I even want to see that on my Android tablet!

Windows was innovative and got to where it is right now by having windows. Sinofsky reads like someone who pushes change for the sake of change. Too many people these days are all about making their mark without considering the downstream consequences of their actions. It's all about putting a little merit badge on their resumes. As much as we curse Microsoft for being behind on technology, this is one time where I wish they would have followed Apple's lead and kept their phone, console, and PC OSes separate.

Also, is it just me or are there PR people on here trying to hawk Windows 8? Toms has an unusual number of people repeating the same positive talking points and the usual "quit your job, make money from home" bots. I never see this on many of the other sites I frequent.
 
marcolorenzo, this great new technology has been around for decades, do not let the Microsoft, we got market share on the coat tails of IBM, Fool you! A tablet UI belongs on a tablet, this oh the kids will get it, just means that that they are too young to have a benchmark with which to make an informed choice! Most kids are consumers of the products that other people create, and the creators of desktop software and the enterprises that use the desktop, have to pay employees while they learn, and any prodctivity lost by using the windows 8 metro/modern UI will cost enterprises money, kids have all the time, mostly cost free, to learn to use that irritating UI, but Kids will also see Windows 7 around for as long windows XP, and they will learn what is usefull and what is garbage! What educated PC users know about any OS is that most of what we use today, GUIs, multitasking OSs, and VMs were developed in the 1950s,1960s.1970s, into the mid 1980, with a few improvements thereafter! this has nuthing to do with conservative traditionalists and more to do with M$ having too much market share, coat tails of IBM market share, Microsoft is not about the NEW, it is about change for the sake of profits, and there is no real innovation in the Metro/modern UI on the desktop! We adults are saturated with marketing speak, so can the generational wedge marketing crap! it is about time to inforce on M$, the same solution that was forced on Ma Bell, and the Standard Oil Octopus! Bill Gates and John D. Rockefeller are not very differnent from eachother historically speaking!
Remember kids the GUI was not invented by Microsoft or Apple, but by Zerox Parc! Do not believe the M$ hype!
 
[citation][nom]Darkerson[/nom]Linux is pretty easy to use, you know, until something goes wrong and you need to use BASH or something a little more involving than clicking on some icons. Id love for you to tell me with a straight face that "average" users are going to be comfortable trying to figure that crap outhttp://ss64.com/bash/Until Linux is more "dumbed down" and less fragmented (everyone seems to have their own distro, now a days), it will never be a choice for the "average" user. Thats probably why it never took over the desktop like it was predicted to do, time and time again, while also being free.[/citation]

I have provided support for both Windows and Linux in the desktop and server space for the last few years. I can say unreservedly that I have far fewer problems with Linux. Your comment about having to use BASH is disingenuous; most issues can be solved within the GUI. Having a powerful CLI gives you more options when the SHTF.
Your point about fragmentation is well taken - it's both the strength and weakness of Linux that there are huge numbers of distributions.
 
Comparing stardock and windows 8 sales numbers seems like less than a percent are using it. Doesn't seem like a lot of people.

fb.me\LearnWindows8
 
[citation][nom]rodbowler[/nom]I have provided support for both Windows and Linux in the desktop and server space for the last few years. I can say unreservedly that I have far fewer problems with Linux. Your comment about having to use BASH is disingenuous; most issues can be solved within the GUI. Having a powerful CLI gives you more options when the SHTF.Your point about fragmentation is well taken - it's both the strength and weakness of Linux that there are huge numbers of distributions.[/citation]

And I think my point went over your head. The "average" user doesnt want to have to look all of that shit up. They just want to click on the big E on their desktop to get to the internet, so they can babble on about their day on facebook and maybe play a movie or get on youtube, listen to some music, or play a game. Those of us here are not "average" users. So dont get me wrong, I dont hate Linux. In fact, I am keenly interested now that Steam is a real thing for Linux. Have my system set up to dual boot between Ubuntu and Windows 8 so i can learn more about it. But I have accepted the fact that the "average" user isnt as interested in learning all these sort of things. They just want to push a button and go. :/
 
Also, the continuing trend of anyone that happens to like 8 or shed it in even a slightly positive light gets thumbed down all to hell is rather amusing and revealing. Mob mentality, people? I expected to get thumbed down for being aggressive in some of my comments, but would anyone like to comment back on why they did, and give an actual reason, other than "It suckz lulzzz long live xp!!!!111!1" because I would like to read some intelligent feedback in the comments for once instead of fanboyish gibberish.
 
[citation][nom]LearnWindows8[/nom]Comparing stardock and windows 8 sales numbers seems like less than a percent are using it. Doesn't seem like a lot of people.fb.me\LearnWindows8[/citation]
can you post links please to where your geting that info

i say that because stardock(by FAR not the only one making things like this) has not really as far as i know given out any info on there sales and the only real number you can get is the number of facebook likes which means little to nothing

also there is no real info for windows 8 as far as how much it has sold eather inless i missed it in the last day or 2...... if anything the windows 8 news so far has been lower then expected sales again with no real numbers

so that being said i would like to know where your getting less then 1%
 
[citation][nom]JohnUSA[/nom]I want to bring up a very critical and important warning regarding usage of desktop touch screen monitors with the irritable and very user unfriendly Windows 8.Touch screen desktop monitors are a horrible and painful gadgets.Your arm must be suspended in midair to use the touch screen, and after a short time you are going to hate it as you are going to get tired quickly and will start having arm and shoulder pain.Touch screens on tablets and laptops are completely different as they are used either on your lap or on top of your desk and are easier and practical to use, unlike the painful touch screen monitors.One more reason I hate Windows 8 that it is strictly and stupidly designed for touch use and not for mouse/keyboard use.Stupid Microsoft should have designed 2 completely separate versions of Windows 8, one for touch users and the second for all current mouse and keyboard users.By combining both users in one version idiot Microsoft angered and alienated mouse and keyboard users, like myself.I abhor Windows 8 and will NEVER use it.I will wait till Windows 9 is released, and I hope and pray that it will be a good and smartly designed OS, unlike the horrible and irritating Windows 8.[/citation]

You know what's worse? Imagine these Windows 8 pc's with touchscreens in the workplace say in a factory environment or warehouse where mulitple people are using the pc to print labels or invoices. Germs Germs Germs Probably end up dirtier than a toilet seat after a few days of use!
 
The new fullscreen startmenu its kooler and cleaner even cooler if it was possible to choose a background image without 3rd party software.
The real problem is in the new app navigation/appearence, and also in the apps theirselves.
It should be possible to work with multiple apps in the same screen (and i mean more than 2. win8 currently allows this in a really poor way)
Seriously that is really annoying.
Should be possible to close an app besides alt+F4 and dragdown. with (ex: a transparent X or something)
And the apps... most of them are too simple, they seriously lack costumization/options. Not win8 fault tough..
 
[citation][nom]suture[/nom]The new fullscreen startmenu its kooler and cleaner even cooler if it was possible to choose a background image without 3rd party software.The real problem is in the new app navigation/appearence, and also in the apps theirselves.It should be possible to work with multiple apps in the same screen (and i mean more than 2. win8 currently allows this in a really poor way)Seriously that is really annoying.Should be possible to close an app besides alt+F4 and dragdown. with (ex: a transparent X or something)And the apps... most of them are too simple, they seriously lack costumization/options. Not win8 fault tough..[/citation]agree, the problem is not the metro UI, but the apps. metro UI is just a fullscreen startmenu. but the windows Apps is really a disaster.
 
not bothered about start menu myself, I've got used to the interface in windows 8 and quite like it lol ... still they should of put the option of using a start menu in if the user of the pc would like to stick with their comfort blanket, personally it seems main concern would be with business and retrain , but as for the home user's lol a lot of the moans and groans about the start menu sound like kid's having a tantrum because they didn't get the sweets they wanted ...
 
Ah I'll be honest, there are some things that are easier with the metro UI they're few and far between. And most of them require use of the charm bar. If you're a complete computer newbie then the new UI is probably going to be great for you. Saying that though, I've been using computers since the vic20 days and don't really like metro as it stands. Though I'm only on day two of my grand experiment to see how long it takes me to switch to Start8(since I got a discount copy for being in the beta). I never did get a chance to play much with the consumer preview.

Overall, I find that I'm in desktop mode 90-95% of the time. Especially since most of what I do requires multi-language support. The real problem I'm finding though is it takes more time, to do simple tasks. I'd think that I'm doing something wrong with this, but I don't believe I am. Rather it's a poor implementation of an idea that doesn't translate well to the desktop. Now I'd expect that Win8 wouldn't be getting the poor reception it has, if the startmenu was there, and so was metro. In fact, I bet it would be getting a much better review overall, and acceptance.

All that being said, the OS itself in terms of speed? Much better than even Windows 7 on my 2 year old PC, where I'd have a 15-25sec boot time with an SSD(first generation) it's down to under 10 seconds. Gaming compatibility? Well everything still works, even stuff that isn't listed as compatible. Like warcraft 3 and the frozen throne.

 
[citation][nom]A Bad Day[/nom]Anyone remember Windows xp's first release? Businesses were still downgrading back to Win 2000, 98, or even ME until past 2003-2004.[/citation]
Possibly incorrect, since enterprises were using Windows NT 4.0 (i think it (the OS) was called that too, not just the kernel) and 98 was the consumer oriented dos based solution.

And NT 4 to XP was still a kernel change, so i suppose that's more comparable to the XP to vista transition.
 
You know, i could never quite understand the concept of separating your phone and tablet UI (WP8 and WindowsRT/Win8) but keeping a common tablet and desktop UI.

I mean, there's a good reason the rest of hasn't done this, and this is the exact reason why Windows touch devices failed in the past: touch=separate UI(s), desktop/laptop=separate UI.
 
I installed windows 8 two weeks ago. At first I was like the most people here, very very negative. After a couple days of normal work and finding the new ways to do things, I was surprised to find myself really impressed with the interface.

Ofcourse there are things that annoy me, the shutdown is annoying and I allways hated the 'auto-hide' menus. The chimes bar annoys me like crazy. I created a shutdown tile and when I push it the pc shuts down.
I am still able to use the start menu in windows 8 as in windows 7, except now the start menu is full screen. I hit the windows key on my keyboard and start typing the name of the app or feature I want and press enter. ever since they introduced that feature in windows vista I am not searching through start anymore, it's unneccessary and outdated.
 
sorry but Im going to rename the "start menu" the new "comfort blanket" by Microsoft .. making "comfort blankets" for millions since 1995... lol again sorry but it just makes me laff how people are just to lazy to take on something new ? or scared to lose they windows geek status with there friends maybe ?
 
Bring back the Start Menu, put an option to hide away Metro and the charms nonsense, bring back Aero and round windows edges and we're back in business.
 
People are making so much fuss over this start button. If you thing the tiles are a chore then your mouse doesn't have the dpi for the screen you use. I can hit any button in the tile menu at the flick of my wrist as it was on the desktop.

Any programs people used the start button where can simply tag these programs to the tile menu. I acutally find it bullet fast to launch my programs from the tile menu.

So cry away you inexperienced pc users if you want the start menu back, as it's simple. You haven't streteched out and thought how to use Windows 8 to your advantage. After all it's so simple, so my words to Microsoft... Stick with your design principles, as for me the tile screen is like visiting another room on my desktop, giving me a philological feel that my desktop is much bigger.
 
[citation][nom]p05esto[/nom]I agree completely. The Vista start menu is better and more flexible than the Win7 menu You can't even put folders in the Win7 menu to group apps. I've got like 50 apps and utilites installed and I used to just create cascading groups of apps. Why the crap would MS take that functionality away? Why, because only 10% of people used it? Yea, well that's probably your 10% of power users..... what a bunch of dipsticks.[/citation]

Thanks for this comment. You are one of the few people who acknowledge this. The battery menu in Vista was also better: I have to click 3 times to get the ability to switch from High Performance to Battery Saver, where in Vista, I only had to click once. I don't want to ever see Balanced. Ever. Either I want full power or full longevity, never the 2 shall meet...

 
[citation][nom]bkinder83[/nom]All you have to do is start typing and whatever you want to run will come up. Really not that hard.[/citation]
Really? Hmm... doesn't seem to do that in Desktop mode. Start typing... nothing happens.

Oh, you mean you must be in metro mode to find something? You mean, like its easier to clicking on the start button and START TYPING?!
 
"Searching for programs means loading up the Charms bar stored off-screen to the right -- or typing "Windows key + Q" to pull up the search function -- instead of simply clicking a button"

Uhm.....no. You press your Windows button (bringing you to the start screen) and just start typing. It's EXACTLY the same as with Windows 7. Are people so dumb they can't figure this simple thing out?
 
@nicodemus_mm

and i would love to agree with you, but i have witness the help desk calls generated from a 'simple' XP to win7 migration, truth of the matter, all migration are a pig, why would win8 be any different

@hasten

yes that does seem a lot of hassle to shutdown, personally i like winkey+i ........
 
Can anyone seriously say they didn't see this coming? The average user, aka non-techies, do not adapt well to change, that's why we (techies) get paid as much as we do because we do adapt. That being said, MS isn't selling to bushiness as most businesses just now made the move to W7. That only leave your average consumer which has already spoken and said they don't really like it. They don't hate it but they don't like it either. I for one look forward to Win9, i think its gonna be the next W7 :)
 
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