XP

BruceMyers48

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Jan 17, 2001
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I had a major crash of XP home after downloading the critical updates. It took out the registry. I was on the phne with MS for hours and finally got it up to see it go down the same way in minutes. I finally cleaned the hard drive and reloaded XP only to get halted with a error half way throug about a file it could not load. I cleaned the drive again and loaded XP only to get 94% throug and get a file error again. This one was fatal. I sent all the error codes to MS via E-mail like he said and they are going to work on the problem. Has any one else had this problem. Thanks Bruce
 
Yes, on a machine that was overheating it kept resetting the registry. I almost threw the computer out the window. Once I added another fan it settled down and worked perfect.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
 
Hi, Bruce ...

63 Celcius = 145.4 Farenheit.

That's pretty hot. Especially if the processor is idle.

I don't know if this is your problem, but your cooling solution could <i>definitely</i> use a little work.

Did you assemble the machine?

You might find this article to be interesting:

<A HREF="http://www.swiftnets.com/cpu_temp_testing.htm" target="_new">http://www.swiftnets.com/cpu_temp_testing.htm</A>

This one, too:

<A HREF="http://www.viahardware.com/faq/kt7/faqheatsinks.html" target="_new">http://www.viahardware.com/faq/kt7/faqheatsinks.html</A>

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
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<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
 
I thought that was hot for a Idle.It runs between 141 and 149 degrees. Yes I assembled this machine. I am using the fan that was supplied with the cpu. I also have a front fan and the one on the pewer supply. Any ideas on how to cool it or what the temp should be on the amd 1400. Bruce
 
Thought I would let you know, I took the side off the Tower and turned a 8" fan on blowing into the case and in 2 or 3 minutes I dropped the temp to 134 degrees. Bruce
 
I'd say a nice goal for an idle temp for that proc should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 40c (104F) ... and lower, if possible. The lower, the better.

If I were you, I'd reseat the heatsink, and add some decent thermal compound, like Arctic Silver II. Or even change the heatsink and fan to one that is more efficient. I'd also consider adding a fan in the rear of the case for exhaust.

There are an incredible number of sites on the Internet about system/processor/video card/memory cooling. It could take me several hours to type the URL's for the ones I have bookmarked!

You can find a tremendous amount of information on this subject alone at Tom's ... both in the articles, and from the hardcore overclockers on the Forum, who have forgotten more about cooling methods than most people will ever want to know!

But, in the interests of science, here are a few of my favorites. Start reading, comparing, and shopping ... that's my best suggestion.

<A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q4/001211/" target="_new">http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q4/001211/</A>

<A HREF="http://www.arcticsilver.com/" target="_new">http://www.arcticsilver.com/</A>

<A HREF="http://www.frostytech.com/articlesearch.cfm?SearchValue=&Search=Search&Category=198&CategorySearch=Get+Listing" target="_new">http://www.frostytech.com/articlesearch.cfm?SearchValue=&Search=Search&Category=198&CategorySearch=Get+Listing</A>

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/guides/viewfaq.html?i=30" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/guides/viewfaq.html?i=30</A>

<A HREF="http://hardocp.com/cooling.html" target="_new">http://hardocp.com/cooling.html</A>

<A HREF="http://store.yahoo.com/millisec99/" target="_new">http://store.yahoo.com/millisec99/</A>

<A HREF="http://www.2cooltek.com/" target="_new">http://www.2cooltek.com/</A>

<A HREF="http://www.pcscoop.com/overclockin#" target="_new">http://www.pcscoop.com/overclockin#</A>

<A HREF="http://www.coldcpu.com/product.asp?itemid=113" target="_new">http://www.coldcpu.com/product.asp?itemid=113</A>

<A HREF="http://overclockers.com/" target="_new">http://overclockers.com/</A>

<A HREF="http://www.chillblast.com/guides/core.htm" target="_new">http://www.chillblast.com/guides/core.htm</A>

<A HREF="http://www.coolerguys.com/" target="_new">http://www.coolerguys.com/</A>

The list could go on and on and on ...

Just watch the weight of the heatsink. You'll risk crushing or chipping the core with a heatsink that weighs more than 300 grams. And be sure that whatever you buy will fit correctly ... some heatsinks can be a tight squeeze with the large capacitors around the socket.

Personally ... I'd avoid heatsinks with "Orb" style fans. If you can stand the noise ... get a Delta fan.

I normally figure that I've done a pretty good job cooling a system if the temperature of the can is around 10 degrees above the ambient (the external temperature at the opening of the intakes of the can), and the processor temperature is ten to fifteen degrees above that when "idle". (Which is a misnomer, because the only time a processor is actually idle is when it is off. Even in the BIOS, it's under load. But you know what I mean.)

Those are my goals when I cool a system, anyway.

I think the exhaust is more important that the intake ... stagnant air on a motherboard can really cause some funky heat issues, IMHO.

See ya ...

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
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<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
 
Any luck installing the OS after adding the fan?

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
____________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
 
I,m running 98 2nd right now untill I get all the little problems fixed. What I am reading that 58 and 59 degrees cel. might be as low as I will get this thunderbird 1400.That is at a idle. I ahve a pretty big heat sink and fan on the cpu. I might consider getting a adapter to go on the heatsink sort of like a funnel and it lets you put a larger fan on it. Bruce
 
No way, Bruce.

<font color=green>"What I am reading that 58 and 59 degrees cel. might be as low as I will get this thunderbird 1400.That is at a idle."</font color=green>

I can't agree with that, buddy.

I build systems for a living. Amd I've never built a system that had a processor idle temperature of 140F. If I took a reading and saw that ... I'd know immediately that something was wrong.

I'm running a 1.7 GHz Pentium IV which averages 40c, and I <i>know</i> that your processor should be running cooler than mine with a decent heatsink/fan combo.

I built a system with a 1.2GHz Athlon last month and the average temp was 38c at idle. I can't believe that a processor that is only 200MHz faster is 45 degrees hotter.

I also assembled a 900MHz Duron which idles at 34.4c (94F).

I strongly suggest that you make sure that your heatsink is secure and level. And if you haven't used a good thermal compound (and just used the pink thermal pad that came on the heatsink) that you take it off, scrape off the pad, clean the surface thoroughly, and apply a small amount of silver-based thermal grease.

My two cents.

If you want verification, go talk to some of the other Forum members, like Crashman. Don't just take my word for it. There are lots of experienced builders on this Forum who build AMD-based systems.

'Luck ...

Toejam31

P.S. You said that you've got Win98SE running. Interesting. Have you checked and made sure that all your hardware is compatible with WinXP?

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
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<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
 
i dont think you should worry that much...from what i've seen in this forum...amd's usually run a higher temp than any intel processor.
my friend has a duron and it runs at about 55-60 C idle.
i have a P4 and it runs at about 40 idle (55 when im playing counterstrike).


I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
 
I don't mean to get extraodinarily facetious, here ... but what are you guys using to cooling your processors? Toaster ovens and blow dryers?

My P4 has never been anywhere near 55c, no matter what what I'm running. Hell, I've got the mainboard alarm set to go off at 60c, in case the processor fan stops working.

You are talking about a 27F degree jump in temp being normal, just because you are running a game? Not from my neck of the woods.

If you are running an Athlon or a Duron processor, and it's idling at 140F ... dude, you've got a heat problem. And that's okay, if it jumps another 25 to 30 degrees while running an app???

"i dont think you should worry that much...from what i've seen in this forum...amd's usually run a higher temp than any intel processor."

Perhaps you are aware that many of the people who come to this Forum are here because they have a <i>problem</i> with their systems ... not because everything is running optimally?

And ... in my experience, while more difficult to cool, due to the small, raised die (which causes more user errors), there is no reason for an AMD processor to run hotter than an Intel processor. A good cooling solution can be just as effective for either brand.

However ... in that same vein, the Pentium IV is the hottest processor I've ever run, and I find that they average about 8 to 10 degrees hotter when idle than an Athlon. But that's not the case with, say ... a Pentium III. Pentium III's are much cooler.

"my friend has a duron and it runs at about 55-60 C idle.
i have a P4 and it runs at about 40 idle (55 when im playing counterstrike)."

Well, that's your friend's choice ... and yours. But if you came into my shop, and told me these kind of specifics ... I'd be doing my best to convince either of you to do something to cool off the systems.

"I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know."

I suddenly understand the inherent humor in your signature. And my response would be, "Maybe you shouldn't, if you don't." GIGO. And I don't think that's the best way to educate someone. Please don't make my job harder, even if your intentions are good ones.

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
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<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
 
A 1.4 that I built a month ago runs in the low 40's/high 30's no problem with the stock HSF and 3 case fans. Is your case tiny? I wouldn't recommend running the machine even in the high fifties if you can avoid it. I realize that some people have different living conditions and so on, but a decent case with a couple fans will work with the stock HSF.

You have a problem. It's either the HSF installation, a VERY poorly ventilated case, or a case that is just too small and is acting like an oven. You need to have an inflow fan at the front/bottom of your case with an outflow fan at that top/back of your case. For added measure add another fan if you wish. Make sure your HSF is installed properly. You cannot install a HSF with a pad more than once so if you've removed it and put it back on that could be a problem. In that case I would remove the gooey stuff and buy some Arctic Silver II paste. This will void your warranty though. Follow the instructions on AS2's site.

Anyone who tells you differently about the case temperatures either is very lucky or has no real experience with it. Some people have no problems running their system in the high fifties. I haven't met one in person though. 60's? Not a chance. You're asking for trouble then. It's not hard to get your temps down though if you follow some of the basic rules.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
 
A 15C jump because you're playing a game? That's not cool. I have a Duron and it gives me problems at 49C (works fine at 47C), so what are you doing with yours? Word processing gives me no problems but games go schitzo on me. 55C-60C idle is ridiculous. Run toast on that rig and see how long it lasts. Toast will stress the CPU and raise the CPU to it's max. Honestly I wouldn't do it until you can lower that temp at least by 10C.

My Athlon 1000-C runs idle in the 30C's (36C-38C) and hits 42C under full load.

Maybe the real question here is what are you using to measure your temps? Motherboard Monitor 5 is generally the one that gives the most accurate temps from what I've read and seen.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
 
eh?
anyways...i forgot to mention that i was using asus probe to find out what my cpu temp is. asus prob (from what ive read on this forum) reads temps a little higher than it should.

"Well, that's your friend's choice ... and yours. But if you came into my shop, and told me these kind of specifics ... I'd be doing my best to convince either of you to do something to cool off the systems"

i was just stating examples. not everyone is obsessed in making their cpu's run a few degrees cooler, and yes...my friend's cpu is running hotter than ususal and i told him that (like 3 or 4 months ago) but it was his decision not to do anything about it. with my cpu, just because it runs at 55C when im playing games doesnt mean that it runs at 55C all the time. i play CS for about an hour every day, tops(because i need to rest my eyes). the rest of the time my cpu temp is about 40C and i know you know thats a pretty ok temp for a cpu. if my comp ever locked up when im playing games (which it hasnt yet) i would do something about it.

"I suddenly understand the inherent humor in your signature. And my response would be, "Maybe you shouldn't, if you don't." "

good...at least some one has a sense of humor (i might replace my sig with that one btw)

now...im going to tell the whole world that it is perfectly fine when a cpu operates at 65 C (hopefully you can see the sarcasm).

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
 
correction...50C when im playing CS...that was odd...

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
 
Thanks for the advice,I will now look for a quality heatsink and fan and not use the pad that came with it.I have ordered some artic silver thermal compound. I will let you know what happens. I think I will switsh to rounded cables too. One question, will the ultra 80 wire cable work just as well hooked to a no ulta side that uses the 40 wire. Bruce
 
Not an obsession, dude ... at least, not on my end.

But in my line of work, there are three contributing factors that force people to bring their computers to me for repair, more than any others. Dirt, heat, and user error. I've seen hundreds of dirty, proprietary machines with inadequate cooling solutions. The users are normally complaining of data loss, or that a component stopped working, or that the system won't boot. And if they attempted to "fix it" themselves ...

As you can imagine, that costs them their hard-earned cash, because I don't work for free.

While I like making a living, at the same time, I really dislike charging a customer because of poor maintenance, or because of unfamiliarity with the inner workings of a computer.

And that's why I do my best to educate a someone, and give them the best advice possible.

You should appreciate this scenario ... the computer advice that comes from the user's friend, who often knows just enough to be "dangerous". Familiar enough with a computer to hand out advice that has the ring of truth, but who also happens to be slightly misinformed on certain subjects. And so, there's another aspect to my job ... re-educating people with long-held convictions on various aspects of computing, all because their friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc ... told them otherwise.

You quickly learn, when doing PC repair, that the best defense is a good offense.

Unfortunately, most people treat computers like a typical household appliance. They buy it, plug it in, and expect it to work. Like a refrigerator. And if you mention anything related to learning about the machine, eyes begin to glaze over, and you're presented with an all-too-familiar pained expression which normally precedes a massive migraine. But computers don't do just one thing, like a refrigerator ... they do thousands of things. And so, there's another aspect of my job I confront daily ... educating people on the importance of becoming educated.

Which is normally forstalled by Billy Joe Bob, Jr (i.e. the cousin, the neighbor, the co-worker, the friend) who lives just down the road, running a four-year-old Compaq with dust bunnies inside the can the size of my fist who "has never, ever had any kind of problems".

In reality, Billy Joe's machine usually has nine different viruses, hard-locks every time he opens Word, and spontaneously reboots several times a day. He just doesn't mention it. Of course, he blames it all on Bill Gates. But he also thinks it's "normal", and that it is a waste of time to learn anything new. He just doesn't worry about it. And he's managed to communicate this valuable opinion to everyone around him.

Tech Support people just "love" talking to Billy. Thank God you can't cause someone's brain to implode by just thinking about it, huh?

The hardest thing to "fix" when working in PC repair? The user. And therein lies the entire point to any implied sarcasm in my post. You see, it's not an ego thing ... it's a computer thing. It's not about having an opinion; it's about getting factual information out to someone who has a problem.

See ya ...

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
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<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
 
Yes.

But order high-quality cables. There have been some known issues with using rounded 40 pin, 80 conductor cables, such as not being about to boot the machine, or devices not being correctly recognized.

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>
____________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
 
You guys and your temperatures...jesus H.

Don't speculate about "this is hot, that is hot" and then pass it off as fact. Go over to AMD and get the whitepaper with the thermal specs in it. I think you'll be surprised what is considered too hot.

In all reality a "hot" system is more likely to overheat the graphics...same result: A lockup
 
Your right. I talked to AMD and the max temp. for the 1400 is 96 cel. Now I know you don't want to run that hot. I idle with the 1400 at 59 cel. I never max more than 65 cel. I am going to be happy with that for now. I am working on bringing the ambient temp down in the case.that will affect the cpu quite a bit. Thanks Bruce
 
Told ya :)

Now your original problem...
Get yourself a boot disk and move the install files from your CDROM to the hard drive and then do the install directly from there (no CD involved at all). That file copy error in the middle of setup is a bitch. I've seen it a handful of times on both w2k and xp (just happened to a pc here last week as a matter of fact). In one case it was a bunk CDROM drive...the rest of the times there was no real rhyme or reason. Installing from the hard drive does the trick though. It also has the added bonus that windows will never even bother to ask you for install files or the cdrom if you add components later...and If you're really clever you can service pack your install files when the service packs start coming out :)