[SOLVED] 10900k fan?

[joejackson700]

Is this fan "Phanteks PH-TC12DX" good enough to cool the 10900k?

 

[Darkbreeze]

No.

For the 10900k, IF you are going to use air, you want one of these, listed best to worst, as among the air coolers that are likely good enough for use with the 10900k.


Noctua NH-D14 (Replace stock fans with NF-A14 industrialPPC 2000rpm)
Noctua NH-D15/D15 SE-AM4
Noctua NH-D14 (With original fans)
Thermalright Silver arrow IB-E Extreme
Cryorig R1 Ultimate or Universal
Be Quiet Dark rock Pro 4
Noctua NH-D15s
Thermalright Legrand Macho RT
Phanteks PH-TC14PE (BK,BL, OR or RD)
Deepcool Assassin III
Thermalright Macho X2
Thermalright Macho rev. C
Thermalright Macho rev.B
Thermalright ARO-M14G (Ryzen only)
SilentiumPC Fortis 3 HE1425
Thermalright Macho direct
Deepcool Assassin II


It may not be obvious, but is probably worth mentioning, that not all cooler models will fit all CPU sockets as aftermarket coolers generally require an adapter intended for use with that socket. Some coolers that fit an AMD platform might not fit a later AMD platform, or an Intel platform. Often these coolers come with adapters for multiple types of platforms but be sure to verify that a specific cooler WILL work with your platform before purchasing one and finding out later that it will not.

 

[Vocuda]

No.

For the 10900k, IF you are going to use air, you want one of these, listed best to worst, as among the air coolers that are likely good enough for use with the 10900k.


Noctua NH-D14 (Replace stock fans with NF-A14 industrialPPC 2000rpm)
Noctua NH-D15/D15 SE-AM4
Noctua NH-D14 (With original fans)
Thermalright Silver arrow IB-E Extreme
Cryorig R1 Ultimate or Universal
Be Quiet Dark rock Pro 4
Thermalright Legrand Macho RT
Phanteks PH-TC14PE (BK,BL, OR or RD)
Deepcool Assassin III
Thermalright Macho X2
Thermalright Macho rev. C
Thermalright Macho rev.B
Thermalright ARO-M14G (Ryzen only)
SilentiumPC Fortis 3 HE1425
Thermalright Macho direct
Deepcool Assassin II


It may not be obvious, but is probably worth mentioning, that not all cooler models will fit all CPU sockets as aftermarket coolers generally require an adapter intended for use with that socket. Some coolers that fit an AMD platform might not fit a later AMD platform, or an Intel platform. Often these coolers come with adapters for multiple types of platforms but be sure to verify that a specific cooler WILL work with your platform before purchasing one and finding out later that it will not.

Hello my dear friend,

May I ask what sort of temperature I should expect with Thermalright Silver arrow IB-E Extreme and 10900K at idle and full load, at stock speeds with power limit ?

 

[geofelt]

Do you now have a 10900K?
Do you now have the phanteks, or are you looking for a suitable cooler?
What is the make/model of your case and what is the cooling fan arrangement.

If you have the phanteks cooler, give it a try and see how you do.
Ditto on the silver arrow which I think should do better.

If your case has 160mm headroom and adequate front air intake capability(two 120/140mm) then
I like the noctua NH-D15s as a top air cooler.
I have read reviews on newegg from verified users which had no cooling issues with the noctua cooler.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Right, if you already have the cooler, there is no reason to not try it, but if you don't, I would not intentionally buy a 120mm cooler, of ANY kind, for use with one of the highest TDP processors ever.

The IBE extreme is, ahem, extremely hard to find these days. I'm not sure it's even being manufactured anymore so likely you'd have to find either new old stock somewhere or a used unit. Either of which are fine really. It's a terrific cooler. So are any of the coolers I listed though.

 

[Phaaze88]

Thermalright Silver arrow IB-E Extreme

I can actually chime in on this one a little bit, but I have the Rev B - different mounting hardware, I think.
1)High rpm fans: 2500.
Not really a big deal, since you can set your own fan curves, BUT!
-If thermals exceed 75-80C - I think the value depends on the mobo - your fan curve will be ignored, and the fans will run full speed. Not something to worry about, unless you're running stress tests, or mounted the cooler incorrectly.
-To take advantage of the higher rpm cooling power, the chassis fans need to be equally as fast.

2)Couldn't tell you what to expect - too many variables involved. Adding on to that, I don't have a 10900K, but a 7820X; different die sizes, among other things.

 

[Vocuda]

I can actually chime in on this one a little bit, but I have the Rev B - different mounting hardware, I think.
1)High rpm fans: 2500.
Not really a big deal, since you can set your own fan curves, BUT!
-If thermals exceed 75-80C - I think the value depends on the mobo - your fan curve will be ignored, and the fans will run full speed. Not something to worry about, unless you're running stress tests, or mounted the cooler incorrectly.
-To take advantage of the higher rpm cooling power, the chassis fans need to be equally as fast.

2)Couldn't tell you what to expect - too many variables involved. Adding on to that, I don't have a 10900K, but a 7820X; different die sizes, among other things.

The store near my place has this one: http://thermalright.com/product/silver-arrow-ib-e-extreme/
They don't have Rev. B and this one doesn't list LGA 1200.

I could grab an AIO but since I've been a stock intel fan user up to this point, I'm very worried about the leakage and burning my other parts with it. Store told me air coolers don't need maintenance but you should be careful with AIO, buuuut, they didn't say how bad it is. Do you suggest I should stay away from AIO as a person new to them?

 

[Darkbreeze]

It's too difficult to answer in THAT way.

What can be said is this, and this is only MY opinion, to be sure. IF you CAN use air cooling and get sufficient cooling for the configuration, then it would be wise to do so. Only when there are no air cooling solutions that will suffice should other alternatives be looked at UNLESS of course you're intent is for a custom loop for the pure performance OR an AIO, for the aesthetic and to a much lesser degree on larger models, the performance as well.

I very good 280mm or 360mm AIO cooler will certainly have the potential as a better cooling solution on some configurations, so they are generally a consideration by most modern enthusiasts, but they certainly ALSO do have the potential for leaks, pump failures, air locks and cavitation, etc. Air coolers have none of those problems. Possibly a fan failure some day and that's about it.

But air can never do what water will if you're willing to spend the money on it.

 

[Phaaze88]

this one doesn't list LGA 1200.

LGA 115x = LGA 1200.
Socket dimensions are the same.

I could grab an AIO but since I've been a stock intel fan user up to this point, I'm very worried about the leakage and burning my other parts with it. Store told me air coolers don't need maintenance but you should be careful with AIO, buuuut, they didn't say how bad it is. Do you suggest I should stay away from AIO as a person new to them?

Both have their pros and cons. You'll have to use your best judgment on that one.

I played around with both, and In My Opinion - I'm not one to care about aesthetics, so keep that in mind - the air Vs hybrid thing:
-If the chassis supports big air coolers: big air > 240mm hybrids. The latter doesn't really offer anything over them other than aesthetics.
-280mm and up is where air falls behind, but it's not like air coolers suddenly start throttling the hardware or anything. For some, that extra performance is enough reason for them to go the hybrid route, despite the cons.
-120/140mm hybrids are only really worth it in Small Form Factor chassis that can't support a decent tower air cooler.
-Hybrid cooling has greater benefits with gpus. Too bad it's not as convenient to set up - that's why darn near everyone slaps 'em on their cpus instead.

The biggest cons with hybrids, from my study, are:
-Deceptively expensive, horrid performance per currency. You will replace them more often(pump failures, rare leaks, fluid evaporation, etc) than an air cooler - if you don't get bored of it first.
-You'd best have a backup cooler on hand; you shouldn't use the PC if the pump is dead.
-Screws, lots of screws. I've noticed that I don't clean my PC as often, because I don't want to deal with removing/securing 20+screws from just the cooler alone. At the moment, I have 2x 360mm hybrids in my PC...
Hybrid cooled gpu(front mounted) + air cooled cpu... the airflow doesn't get more uniform than that. I look forward to going back to that.

 

[Vocuda]

@Darkbreeze, Fantastic! Thanks. Will stick to Air Coolers. I can't express enough how much I hate RGB. Makes me feel like I'm wasting energy. At best it's just a distraction for me as I don't intend to look at anything else besides the screen while I'm at it. My case also has a good window but I don't look in there even once a year. (It's placed on the ground) so aesthetics mean nothing to me there to pay for it. I also never overclock, makes me feel like I'm enforcing lots of pain on the parts for very little gain. I'll take the advice and stick to air coolers.. thanks again.

LGA 115x = LGA 1200.
Socket dimensions are the same.


Both have their pros and cons. You'll have to use your best judgment on that one.

I played around with both, and In My Opinion - I'm not one to care about aesthetics, so keep that in mind - the air Vs hybrid thing:
-If the chassis supports big air coolers: big air > 240mm hybrids. The latter doesn't really offer anything over them other than aesthetics.
-280mm and up is where air falls behind, but it's not like air coolers suddenly start throttling the hardware or anything. For some, that extra performance is enough reason for them to go the hybrid route, despite the cons.
-120/140mm hybrids are only really worth it in Small Form Factor chassis that can't support a decent tower air cooler.
-Hybrid cooling has greater benefits with gpus. Too bad it's not as convenient to set up - that's why darn near everyone slaps 'em on their cpus instead.

The biggest cons with hybrids, from my study, are:
-Deceptively expensive, horrid performance per currency. You will replace them more often(pump failures, rare leaks, fluid evaporation, etc) than an air cooler - if you don't get bored of it first.
-You'd best have a backup cooler on hand; you shouldn't use the PC if the pump is dead.
-Screws, lots of screws. I've noticed that I don't clean my PC as often, because I don't want to deal with removing/securing 20+screws from just the cooler alone. At the moment, I have 2x 360mm hybrids in my PC...
Hybrid cooled gpu(front mounted) + air cooled cpu... the airflow doesn't get more uniform than that. I look forward to going back to that.

I'm gonna go for it then: http://thermalright.com/product/silver-arrow-ib-e-extreme/
Out of curiosity, TDP says 320w. That's while 10900K TDP is 125w (with an asus board it should be sticking to 125 TDP really), so, does that mean the Silver-Arrow cooler with it's 320w TDP is an overkill? somewhat waste of money? (given I disable MCE and asus board respects the specified cpu TDP) ?????????????????????????????????????????????

Also, I feel you about the screws man... the Silver-Arrow seem to have a bunch of them too though.

 

[Phaaze88]

The 125w TDP is for Power Limit 1(PL1). That cpu has a PL2 of 250w.

Spoiler

https://imgur.com/YwqWtBb

View: https://imgur.com/YwqWtBb

10th gen power table.
Tau is the duration the cpu is allowed to run at PL2 before it's forced back down to PL1. How long it stays there depends on the work being done.

Silver-Arrow cooler with it's 320w TDP is an overkill?

The whole TDP thing is a rather complicated subject. Heck, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and even the cooler manufacturers don't even use the same measurements!
Unfortunately, there's not much else to go on... so I don't know how these companies expected us to figure it out otherwise...

Also, I feel you about the screws man... the Silver-Arrow seem to have a bunch of them too though.

Nuh-uh! No way!
Silver Arrow is like, 10 screws:
4x standoff
4x M3(for the square bracket)
2x for the cooler crossbar
When it's time to clean it, all you really need to remove is the 2 screws for the crossbar.

A hybrid cooler:
4x screws for the pump head
After that, it varies depending on the size of the rad and the side the fans will be placed. Take a 240/280mm hybrid, for example...
8x screws if the user sandwiches the fans between the installation bracket and radiator
16x screws if the user sandwiches the radiator between the installation bracket and fans[Why do this one? Well, it's slightly more efficient, more so in airflow restrictive chassis.]
=12 to 20 screws
When it's time to clean that, hoo-boy...

 

[Darkbreeze]

The 10900k is NOT 125w.

125w is the maximum TDP while AT BASE CLOCK FREQUENCY, not at maximum all core boost frequency, and there is a huge difference.

Maximum full stress power consumption thermal design power for the 10900k seems to be around anywhere from 250w to 330w, depending on the test method in use, and who you ask, but Intel has set 330w as the maximum that motherboard manufacturers have to play within if their board can handle it.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-10900k-cpu-review/2

So no, there are exactly ZERO air coolers that I know of that are overkill for the 10900k just like there were none that were overkill for the FX-9590 years ago. Both like to bring the heat. Not that they are anything alike, because the 9590 was a terrible "leaker" while the 10900k just suffers from a highly extended process that Intel should have been past long ago and a lot of cores and hyperthreads.

 

[Vocuda]

The 125w TDP is for Power Limit 1(PL1). That cpu has a PL2 of 250w.

Spoiler

https://imgur.com/YwqWtBb

View: https://imgur.com/YwqWtBb

10th gen power table.
Tau is the duration the cpu is allowed to run at PL2 before it's forced back down to PL1. How long it stays there depends on the work being done.

The whole TDP thing is a rather complicated subject. Heck, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and even the cooler manufacturers don't even use the same measurements!
Unfortunately, there's not much else to go on... so I don't know how these companies expected us to figure it out otherwise...


Nuh-uh! No way!
Silver Arrow is like, 10 screws:
4x standoff
4x M3(for the square bracket)
2x for the cooler crossbar
When it's time to clean it, all you really need to remove is the 2 screws for the crossbar.

A hybrid cooler:
4x screws for the pump head
After that, it varies depending on the size of the rad and the side the fans will be placed. Take a 240/280mm hybrid, for example...
8x screws if the user sandwiches the fans between the installation bracket and radiator
16x screws if the user sandwiches the radiator between the installation bracket and fans[Why do this one? Well, it's slightly more efficient, more so in airflow restrictive chassis.]
=12 to 20 screws
When it's time to clean that, hoo-boy...

The 10900k is NOT 125w.

125w is the maximum TDP while AT BASE CLOCK FREQUENCY, not at maximum all core boost frequency, and there is a huge difference.

Maximum full stress power consumption thermal design power for the 10900k seems to be around anywhere from 250w to 330w, depending on the test method in use, and who you ask, but Intel has set 330w as the maximum that motherboard manufacturers have to play within if their board can handle it.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-10900k-cpu-review/2

So no, there are exactly ZERO air coolers that I know of that are overkill for the 10900k just like there were none that were overkill for the FX-9590 years ago. Both like to bring the heat. Not that they are anything alike, because the 9590 was a terrible "leaker" while the 10900k just suffers from a highly extended process that Intel should have been past long ago and a lot of cores and hyperthreads.

Yeaaah but, the 250w PL2 is just for 1 minute ain't it? Say someone gaming for 3 hours, it'll be 1 minute on 250w and 2 hours 59 minute on 125w, no?

 

[Phaaze88]

Yeaaah but, the 250w PL2 is just for 1 minute ain't it?

Negative. It depends on the workload.
There's perhaps, 2 scenarios that can play out.
1)After 56s, it drops to PL1 and stays there until the task is completed. Think heavy and steady tasks.
2)The load changes constantly, resetting Tau before expiration, leading PL2 to never really dropping. Think games.
Now, just because 250w is allowed, doesn't mean it's going to run that the entire time. Keyword: UP TO.

 

[Darkbreeze]

And it's different from board maker to board maker and even model to model within the same chipset by the same manufacturer. Board manufacturers have a lot of leeway when it comes to what rules they have to adhere to when setting up limits, etc.

What can be done on one board, even at the default settings, might be totally different than on another board using the same CPU and that board's default settings. It's one way that board manufacturers can market themselves, as faster in various benchmarks etc.

 

[Phaaze88]

^The above also applies. I was only taking into account Intel defaults.
I didn't want to go into the mess with the brands - it's a pain due to each doing it differently.
Asus appears to have the best track record of following the Intel defaults.