A horrible CPU Choice.

[Vid Dovgan]

Hello guys, so, I recently built my first ever gaming PC, yay, woohooo, well... not so much. Because this was my first ever build, I was obviously a massive noob. I picked an AMD FX 8370 to pair up with my GTX 760. The problem here is, that CPU intensive games run really bad, because of AMD's low single core performance, I really wish I would've picked the i5-4790k (Or something like that), because, most of the games that I play, are CPU intensive games. If I were to replace the CPU, I obviously need to replace the motherboard too, which would be about 350 euros (for both components combined). I'm only 14, so I obviously don't have enough money right now (I barely saved up for this PC). What should I do? I'm truly devastated, this was a horrific first PC build experience.

 

[mdocod]

Vid Dovgan,

Run HWiNFO and AMD OverDrive and/or AMD System Monitor.

Run Prime95 stability test mode.

Configure HWinFo to chart your CPU clock speeds, load, voltage, and socket temps.

Watch your thermal margin in AMD overdrive make sure the chip always stays within thermal margins, if it doesn't, then it will self-throttle to a point.

If the CPU maintains a steady state operation at near 4ghz, and can maintain that for 10+ minutes with P95 running on all 8 threads, then the FX-8370 just isn't the right CPU for your performance goals. If on the other hand, you observe the CPU make frequent dips to low clock speeds, low voltage etc, (possibly as the socket temps crest a particular threshold), then your performance problems in games may not be so much the fault of CPU architecture, but rather, a bad hardware implementation of that weak architecture. I mean, if you think your FX-8370 has bad performance at 4.3ghz, imagine if it were dropping to 1.4ghz every few seconds while gaming....

Seems like we're seeing a cheap MSI or cheap ASRock board on here incapable of running these 8 core chips at their rated speeds under continuous workloads every couple days.

----------

So.. one last question...

What CPU cooler is on your CPU? (I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's NOT the AMD factory cooler.... hmmm... AIOCLC?

 

[Vid Dovgan]

Vid Dovgan,

Run HWiNFO and AMD OverDrive and/or AMD System Monitor.

Run Prime95 stability test mode.

Configure HWinFo to chart your CPU clock speeds, load, voltage, and socket temps.

Watch your thermal margin in AMD overdrive make sure the chip always stays within thermal margins, if it doesn't, then it will self-throttle to a point.

If the CPU maintains a steady state operation at near 4ghz, and can maintain that for 10+ minutes with P95 running on all 8 threads, then the FX-8370 just isn't the right CPU for your performance goals. If on the other hand, you observe the CPU make frequent dips to low clock speeds, low voltage etc, (possibly as the socket temps crest a particular threshold), then your performance problems in games may not be so much the fault of CPU architecture, but rather, a bad hardware implementation of that weak architecture. I mean, if you think your FX-8370 has bad performance at 4.3ghz, imagine if it were dropping to 1.4ghz every few seconds while gaming....

Seems like we're seeing a cheap MSI or cheap ASRock board on here incapable of running these 8 core chips at their rated speeds under continuous workloads every couple days.

----------

So.. one last question...

What CPU cooler is on your CPU? (I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's NOT the AMD factory cooler.... hmmm... AIOCLC?

I understood about 80 % of this. My CPU cooler is an Arctic Cooling Freezer 13. My motherboard is an Asrock 970 Extreme4 which says "8 core CPU ready" on the box. I was thinking of replacing it with the Gigabyte one (It's full name is listed above this convo).

 

[Vid Dovgan]

For the minecraft bit maybe I can help a little.

What modpack are you playing + version number, if you'd like I can download it and see what performance I get. (of course you're gonna have to give me a seed and run around the starting area so our performance is as similar as possible.) Plus the view distance.

Also try installing Fastcraft, its over on the IC2 forums, 1.7.10 has absolutely trashed performance when generating new terrain, minecraft is basically unplayable without that mod. 8 chunks loaded = stuttering to 2fps every 3 blocks or so.

The thing is, that I don't play/test Minecraft on SinglePlayer. I'm a Survival Games Player on the Hive server. I tested it over there and on the MCGamer server. I am using Optifine for my minecraft, which is a performance boosting mod. I did test it out without the mod and it is the same.

 

[mdocod]

Hi Vid Dovgan,

Many AM3+ socket boards with "8 core support" or "125W support" or "140W support" etc etc, are only able to rise to that claim, when the AMD boxed CPU cooler is used, as it provides high velocity air-cooling over the CPU VRMs when under a load. By switching over to the nice quiet upright Freezer 13 that leverages heatpipes, you've inadvertently reduced the air-velocity over the VRMs under a load to a fraction of what the system is "designed" to work with. Depending on other factors, it's possible that you have reduced the capacity of your VRMs to 100W or less. When they hit temp limits due to lack of air-flow, the board will force the CPU into a low power state (1.4ghz) as a self-preservation method. This wrecks havoc with performance.

This is why I believe you should set up a test to observe clock speeds while the CPU is under a load. If it isn't holding ~4ghz or better under a load, then you probably have a lot of untapped performance available here... It doesn't make sense to replace the motherboard until you have done this test to determine that it is indeed a motherboard induced throttling problem. If you want to throw parts at the problem without doing any diagnostics, that is of course your choice 😉

If you discover that the board is indeed throttling the CPU, reverting to the stock cooler may be an option to solve the problem, but it will be noisy by comparison.

I used to play MP minecraft, I don't recall any performance problems.... I played it on an Athlon II X4 @ 3.3ghz, which is about 30% slower in that sort of workload.

 

[bmacsys]

Hello guys, so, I recently built my first ever gaming PC, yay, woohooo, well... not so much. Because this was my first ever build, I was obviously a massive noob. I picked an AMD FX 8370 to pair up with my GTX 760. The problem here is, that CPU intensive games run really bad, because of AMD's low single core performance, I really wish I would've picked the i5-4790k (Or something like that), because, most of the games that I play, are CPU intensive games. If I were to replace the CPU, I obviously need to replace the motherboard too, which would be about 350 euros (for both components combined). I'm only 14, so I obviously don't have enough money right now (I barely saved up for this PC). What should I do? I'm truly devastated, this was a horrific first PC build experience.

You are a noob, because people play games, including very cpu intensive games with AMD FX processors with no problem at all. At high settings and resolutions at excellent fps. You are going to waste your money because the 8370 very, very capable. As MDOCOD said your board is the problem. Thermal throttling. You could try to put a fan on the vrm heatsink. I would buy a 8+2 phase board like a GA-990FXA-UD3 R4 or a Sabertooth 990FX R2. Both of which I own and are both immune to vrm issues.

 

[Vid Dovgan]

Hello guys, so, I recently built my first ever gaming PC, yay, woohooo, well... not so much. Because this was my first ever build, I was obviously a massive noob. I picked an AMD FX 8370 to pair up with my GTX 760. The problem here is, that CPU intensive games run really bad, because of AMD's low single core performance, I really wish I would've picked the i5-4790k (Or something like that), because, most of the games that I play, are CPU intensive games. If I were to replace the CPU, I obviously need to replace the motherboard too, which would be about 350 euros (for both components combined). I'm only 14, so I obviously don't have enough money right now (I barely saved up for this PC). What should I do? I'm truly devastated, this was a horrific first PC build experience.

You are a noob, because people play games, including very cpu intensive games with AMD FX processors with no problem at all. At high settings and resolutions at excellent fps. You are going to waste your money because the 8370 very, very capable. As MDOCOD said your board is the problem. Thermal throttling. You could try to put a fan on the vrm heatsink. I would buy a 8+2 phase board like a GA-990FXA-UD3 R4 or a Sabertooth 990FX R2. Both of which I own and are both immune to vrm issues.

Yes, I am indeed a noob, I didn't know this, I am 14 and you can atleast be lucky that I know what I know... But, never the less, You did help me with your post. Have a nice day.

 

[Vid Dovgan]

Hi Vid Dovgan,

Many AM3+ socket boards with "8 core support" or "125W support" or "140W support" etc etc, are only able to rise to that claim, when the AMD boxed CPU cooler is used, as it provides high velocity air-cooling over the CPU VRMs when under a load. By switching over to the nice quiet upright Freezer 13 that leverages heatpipes, you've inadvertently reduced the air-velocity over the VRMs under a load to a fraction of what the system is "designed" to work with. Depending on other factors, it's possible that you have reduced the capacity of your VRMs to 100W or less. When they hit temp limits due to lack of air-flow, the board will force the CPU into a low power state (1.4ghz) as a self-preservation method. This wrecks havoc with performance.

This is why I believe you should set up a test to observe clock speeds while the CPU is under a load. If it isn't holding ~4ghz or better under a load, then you probably have a lot of untapped performance available here... It doesn't make sense to replace the motherboard until you have done this test to determine that it is indeed a motherboard induced throttling problem. If you want to throw parts at the problem without doing any diagnostics, that is of course your choice 😉

If you discover that the board is indeed throttling the CPU, reverting to the stock cooler may be an option to solve the problem, but it will be noisy by comparison.

I used to play MP minecraft, I don't recall any performance problems.... I played it on an Athlon II X4 @ 3.3ghz, which is about 30% slower in that sort of workload.

I ran some test using the CPU-Z application. I tested it on a CPU intensive game (SWTOR) Thsese are the results the core clock speed, reduces from around 4000 to 1300 every few seconds. What does this mean?

 

[RazerZ]

Throttling The CPU slows down to reduce heat/power consumption to prevent possible damage to the CPU.

(Problem identified)

 

[Vid Dovgan]

Throttling The CPU slows down to reduce heat/power consumption to prevent possible damage to the CPU.

(Problem identified)

Please list me some motherboards that are good for my CPU, go with an Expensive one, A mid range one, and A cheap one. Thank you If the motherboard is under 96 dollars, I'll get a replacement for free.

 

[RazerZ]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Motherboard: ASRock 970 Performance ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($83.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $83.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-18 14:12 EST-0500

970 chipset with decent Oc'ing capability. Sli capable. It's under $100 and it seems solid to me.

If you wanted a decent 990FX board this one is a good choice:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Motherboard: Asus M5A99X EVO R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($102.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $102.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-18 14:26 EST-0500

Both are great boards. Pick one with the features you need and best first your price range.

 

[mdocod]

RazerZ,

Why are you suggesting the Extreme3? It has the exact same problem that his Extreme4 already has, crap VRMs. Throttling, etc.

----------

Vid,

Yep, based on your testing, your motherboard is probably throttling the CPU because it's trash, obviously, it would be really dumb to replace it with the Extreme3 that RzerZ suggested...

Get the GA-970A-UD3P for <$95. It should have no problems with it (hopefully no BIOS update is required to post).

 

[RazerZ]

I'm not, I suggested the AsRock 970 Performance, a completely different board.

 

[mdocod]

My mistake RazerZ. Sorry.

I seriously read extreme3, not even sure how either. I probably better get my eyes off the LCD awhile... yikes that was a bonehead maneuver.

Vid.... Disregard my comments regarding RazerZ's motherboard recommendations. They are spot on.

 

[aiat_gamer]

Throttling The CPU slows down to reduce heat/power consumption to prevent possible damage to the CPU.

(Problem identified)

Please list me some motherboards that are good for my CPU, go with an Expensive one, A mid range one, and A cheap one. Thank you If the motherboard is under 96 dollars, I'll get a replacement for free.

I suggest MSI 990FXA-GD80. It is working pretty good with my 8350

 

[bmacsys]

Throttling The CPU slows down to reduce heat/power consumption to prevent possible damage to the CPU.

(Problem identified)

Please list me some motherboards that are good for my CPU, go with an Expensive one, A mid range one, and A cheap one. Thank you If the motherboard is under 96 dollars, I'll get a replacement for free.

I suggest MSI 990FXA-GD80. It is working pretty good with my 8350

Doesn't have an LLC option in the bios. I would pass on any MSI AM3+ board.

 

[bmacsys]

Throttling The CPU slows down to reduce heat/power consumption to prevent possible damage to the CPU.

(Problem identified)

Please list me some motherboards that are good for my CPU, go with an Expensive one, A mid range one, and A cheap one. Thank you If the motherboard is under 96 dollars, I'll get a replacement for free.

Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2, expensive, Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3P cheap, Asus M5A99X EVO R2.0, Gigabyte, GA-990FXA UD3 R4 it must be the R4 though. Mid range. Any of these boards and that cpu will work its magic.

 

[bmacsys]

Hello guys, so, I recently built my first ever gaming PC, yay, woohooo, well... not so much. Because this was my first ever build, I was obviously a massive noob. I picked an AMD FX 8370 to pair up with my GTX 760. The problem here is, that CPU intensive games run really bad, because of AMD's low single core performance, I really wish I would've picked the i5-4790k (Or something like that), because, most of the games that I play, are CPU intensive games. If I were to replace the CPU, I obviously need to replace the motherboard too, which would be about 350 euros (for both components combined). I'm only 14, so I obviously don't have enough money right now (I barely saved up for this PC). What should I do? I'm truly devastated, this was a horrific first PC build experience.

You are a noob, because people play games, including very cpu intensive games with AMD FX processors with no problem at all. At high settings and resolutions at excellent fps. You are going to waste your money because the 8370 very, very capable. As MDOCOD said your board is the problem. Thermal throttling. You could try to put a fan on the vrm heatsink. I would buy a 8+2 phase board like a GA-990FXA-UD3 R4 or a Sabertooth 990FX R2. Both of which I own and are both immune to vrm issues.

Yes, I am indeed a noob, I didn't know this, I am 14 and you can atleast be lucky that I know what I know... But, never the less, You did help me with your post. Have a nice day.

Don't panic. You will get this straightened out and have a great gaming machine. And learn lots in the process. I learned the hard way is get the best mobo and psu that you can afford. They never will be the cheapest options. But they can last thru a couple builds many times.

 

[Vid Dovgan]

I want to thank all of you guys for your support regarding this problem. I went to a local PC shop, but they said that it is a small chance that it is the motherboard, which I don't believe, anyway, I'm going to test the machine at the shop myself, and show them the problem. They said that it's most likely, that the games are just not supported by that CPU, which is impossible in my opinion, as my friend runs them without any problems on his 8350. Well, I'll see what happens.

 

[mdocod]

The shop is clueless. That's normal.

 

[Vid Dovgan]

The shop is clueless. That's normal.

Please tell me what I should say to them when I go test the PC there. Because I don't want to end this discussion by them saying: "Yeah, those games are just not supported" Because I know they are. They said that they will try and put their bast fan in the case and aim it at the mobo. Will that be good? Please, tell me what I should say when I'm there and these FPS drops occour.

 

[mdocod]

Say, verbatim:

"All PC games are compiled for broad compatibility. In fact, so much so, that they tend NOT to leverage the advanced instruction sets available on modern CPUs. There has not been a single PC game ever compiled that absolutely requires an instruction set that the FX-8350 does not have. The mediocre execution throughput available to any single thread on a Vishera CPU is a concern for real-time workloads, however, there is nothing about the Vishera CPU or the AM3+ platform that would inherently prevent a game from running at a reasonable, steady frame-rate in 99% of conditions unless the system were malfunctioning."


"The ASRock Extreme4 is one of MANY AM3+ socket motherboards that have weak voltage regulation for the CPU. These designs are typically only capable of operating the "supported" 125W TDP chips when used in conjunction with the loud AMD heat-sink/fan combo, which provides high velocity air-flow over the VRM region of the motherboard. When these high TDP chips are used with alternative CPU cooling solutions on these boards, the voltage regulation module overheats when the CPU is under a load. When a temperature threshold is reached, the board activates a self-preservation protocol, and forces the CPU into the lowest power state available, which for most vishera chips is 1.4ghz@0.9V. A compute intensive game that is running at a comfortable 50+FPS will drop to <20FPS when this occurs, and in many cases will stutter to far lower effective frame-rate (single digits or worse) because the CPU is no longer able to keep up with the real-time game-engine, let alone produce draw calls for frames to be drawn to screen. The solution is to only use motherboards with robust, efficient VRMs with large heat-sinks for Vishera CPUs."

 

[gokitty199]

The shop is clueless. That's normal.

Please tell me what I should say to them when I go test the PC there. Because I don't want to end this discussion by them saying: "Yeah, those games are just not supported" Because I know they are. They said that they will try and put their bast fan in the case and aim it at the mobo. Will that be good? Please, tell me what I should say when I'm there and these FPS drops occour.

show them this thread?

 

[Vid Dovgan]

Say, verbatim:

"All PC games are compiled for broad compatibility. In fact, so much so, that they tend NOT to leverage the advanced instruction sets available on modern CPUs. There has not been a single PC game ever compiled that absolutely requires an instruction set that the FX-8350 does not have. The mediocre execution throughput available to any single thread on a Vishera CPU is a concern for real-time workloads, however, there is nothing about the Vishera CPU or the AM3+ platform that would inherently prevent a game from running at a reasonable, steady frame-rate in 99% of conditions unless the system were malfunctioning."


"The ASRock Extreme4 is one of MANY AM3+ socket motherboards that have weak voltage regulation for the CPU. These designs are typically only capable of operating the "supported" 125W TDP chips when used in conjunction with the loud AMD heat-sink/fan combo, which provides high velocity air-flow over the VRM region of the motherboard. When these high TDP chips are used with alternative CPU cooling solutions on these boards, the voltage regulation module overheats when the CPU is under a load. When a temperature threshold is reached, the board activates a self-preservation protocol, and forces the CPU into the lowest power state available, which for most vishera chips is 1.4ghz@0.9V. A compute intensive game that is running at a comfortable 50+FPS will drop to <20FPS when this occurs, and in many cases will stutter to far lower effective frame-rate (single digits or worse) because the CPU is no longer able to keep up with the real-time game-engine, let alone produce draw calls for frames to be drawn to screen. The solution is to only use motherboards with robust, efficient VRMs with large heat-sinks for Vishera CPUs."

You my friend, really don't know how much this means to me, I mean, youre helping me sooo much, and you've taught me a lot too. I cannot believe, that somebody would take, momments of their day, to tell me what I have to do to get my PC working, on the internet. I really have respect for you, I'll let you know what is going to come out of this mess. Just one more questions, are the mobos, that people listed on this thread good picks? Thank you again, have a nice day my sir.

 

[Vid Dovgan]

Say, verbatim:

"All PC games are compiled for broad compatibility. In fact, so much so, that they tend NOT to leverage the advanced instruction sets available on modern CPUs. There has not been a single PC game ever compiled that absolutely requires an instruction set that the FX-8350 does not have. The mediocre execution throughput available to any single thread on a Vishera CPU is a concern for real-time workloads, however, there is nothing about the Vishera CPU or the AM3+ platform that would inherently prevent a game from running at a reasonable, steady frame-rate in 99% of conditions unless the system were malfunctioning."


"The ASRock Extreme4 is one of MANY AM3+ socket motherboards that have weak voltage regulation for the CPU. These designs are typically only capable of operating the "supported" 125W TDP chips when used in conjunction with the loud AMD heat-sink/fan combo, which provides high velocity air-flow over the VRM region of the motherboard. When these high TDP chips are used with alternative CPU cooling solutions on these boards, the voltage regulation module overheats when the CPU is under a load. When a temperature threshold is reached, the board activates a self-preservation protocol, and forces the CPU into the lowest power state available, which for most vishera chips is 1.4ghz@0.9V. A compute intensive game that is running at a comfortable 50+FPS will drop to <20FPS when this occurs, and in many cases will stutter to far lower effective frame-rate (single digits or worse) because the CPU is no longer able to keep up with the real-time game-engine, let alone produce draw calls for frames to be drawn to screen. The solution is to only use motherboards with robust, efficient VRMs with large heat-sinks for Vishera CPUs."

Also, I know you are a big expert, so tell me, what motherboard would you pick for this CPU, so it will run to it's full potential, pick one expensive one, one medium priced, and one cheap motherboard. Thank you

 

[mdocod]

You're very welcome Vid, glad to help.

Yes I'm seeing lots of good motherboard recommendations....

I think in Summery this is probably the "short list:"

ASRock 970 Performance
ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer
ASRock 990FX Extreme9
Asus M5A97 EVO R.2.0
Asus 990X EVO R.2.0
ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0
Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2.0
ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z
Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3P
GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0
GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD5
MSI 970 Gaming

Any of the above.