Actual deneb review/comparison to Intel

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Therell be more numvers soon on the Greek site, including about 4 more games. So far, Im happy to see P2's performance in gaming. What its showing is, its no different than alomost any Intel cpu. Is that wrong to be happy about that? Look at the 16x10 benches, and theyre close, and alot cheaper too. Heres a quote from their benchtest
" Now we move to something that many are interested and we know - the reason obviously for PC Games. Τα περισσότερα Review που έχουμε δει έκαναν λόγο για "κατα κράτος επικράτηση των Core i7", κάτι που θέλαμε να επιβεβαιώσουμε, όχι όμως φυσικά μόνο στη χαμηλή ανάλυση των 1280x1024 pixels, αλλά και σε Maximum γραφικά στην ανάλυση των 1680x1050 pixels, μια από τις δημοφιλέστερες αναλύσεις στον κόσμο των PC Gamers. Most who have seen Review spoke of "rule by the prevalence of Core i7", something we wanted to confirm, but not only in the low resolution of 1280x1024 pixels, but in Maximum graphics on the analysis of 1680x1050 pixels, one of the most popular analyzes the world of PC Gamers.

Τα αποτελέσματα? The results; Όπως θα είδατε, υπερβολικά θετικά στα 1280 για τους i7, αλλά ταυτόχρονα, αρνητικότατα στη συνέχεια, στα 1680. As you saw, too positive in 1280 for the i7, but at the same time, negativity then, in 1680. Οι Phenom II πραγματικά εκεί πέρα διέπρεψαν κατά την άποψή μας, σπάζοντας σε χίλια κομμάτια τον μύθο που είχε δημιουργηθεί γύρω από τα PC Games και το ρόλο που παίζει σε αυτά ο CPU. The Phenom II dieprepsan really there in our view, in thousand pieces breaking the myth that was created around the PC Games and the role they played in the CPU. Αυτό που είδαμε ήταν ότι ακόμα και ένας ταπεινός Q6600 στα 2.4GHz δεν είχε σημαντικές διαφορές από τον υπερβολικά (θεωρητικά) καλύτερο Core i7 940, κάτι που τονίζει ακόμα περισσότερο το ρόλο μιας καλής κάρτας γραφικών και όχι ενός κορυφαίου CPU, όταν μιλάμε για παιχνίδια. What we saw was that even a humble Q6600 at 2.4GHz was not significantly different from the excessive (in theory) better Core i7 940, which further emphasizes the role of a good graphics card and not a leading CPU, when we talk about games. "
http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?hl=en&sl=el&tl=en&u=http://www.hwbox.gr/showthread.php%3Ft%3D3189%26garpg%3D25&usg=ALkJrhjRuhQBxAbavempU_jR48r8lACimA

Read the last line, and this is the best we have so far, as to P2s performance. Sorry, couldnt edit out the Greek heheh

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Previously, we hadnt had equal performance hardly at all, and you remember my post about being surprised P1 could do it at all, especially in a few newer games. It seems P2 has caught up with Intel here, and having all that processing power for MT,encoding etc doesnt mean much in gaming, and so you look for bang for buck, which is why people are still staying with their Q6600s over buying new i7s, even die hard Intel fans. If the performance was seen in gaming compared to the costs, i7 would be ideal, as it is ideal for those other things Ive mentioned, but those things dont spin my blades, so Im not charged up about i7

 

[4745454b]

Ahhh, but thats the great thing about competition. PhII comes out, and Intel will drop the price of the 9xxx chips to match, and the i7 parts will start to come down as well. We need PhII to be good as much as AMD does. Thankfully this time, it seems like PhII is up to the task.

Upgrading has been mentioned in this thread, another good thing about these new chips is they will run on AM2 (or is it only the AM2+?) boards. AM2 users can FINALLY get the performance they should, right as AMD pulls the rug and switches back to S939 Pt 2. This is still good stuff for the most part, I just hope real world apps work as well on these as those synthetic ones.

 

[rangers]

you seem to be kicking up a bit of a storm jaydee, every one have a good new year, im off

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

You too, have a happy one.

Thats the thing, if for gaming as priority 1, if the perf is similar or close, then it has to come down to dollars

 

[spathotan]

It can be good in gaming, thats no argument. But the case remains that they aimed for a wrong crowd. Soooooo many people already have Q6600's....E8400s......or compatable motherboards. Alot more than people who have good/decent AM2+ boards. The odds of those people droping their LGA775 platforms to switch to P2 for a 5% performance boost isnt very high. So the majority of sales are going to come from

A. People looking to upgrade that are currently using legacy parts
B. People looking to ditch Phenom 1
C. People who already have compatable AM2 boards

And unfortunately Intel is winning in the numbers game, so the people who fall into any of those 3 categories arent in "great" numbers. Bad for AMD, good for those people. Ive said all this before.

Ill be honest and I hate to admit it, im a motherboard whore. I love a badass looking motherboard with good color blending and effective and great looking cooling. If somebody makes an AMD chipset with all of that (none of the current picking) then ill drop this Q6600/P45 for a P2, 5% performance increase or not. Ill waste the money.

 

[NMDante]

Look at it this way, spathotan.

People who will be upgrading (and does research) will look at Intel's Core series (i7 and i5) and AMD's Phenom II (AM2+ and AM3).
Now, for argument sake, let's say they are upgrading from a socket 775 system. That would mean, new motherboard (and probably memory).

This person looks at both offerings from Intel and AMD. Sees that Intel's Core i7 performs well, but is a bit pricey. The Core i5 is nice, but nothing solid on performance yet. Now, this person sees the AMD Phenom II and it looks good. Motherboards not too bad, and might be able to use memory again, but Phenom II AM2+ CPUs show no offerings after 920/940 (from roadmaps). So, the AMD system based on AM2+ ends, which will mean, new motherboard and DDR3 (AM3 system).

So, which would this person get? A DDR3 based Core i7 or i5 system now, or an AM2+ Phenom II then go to AM3 later, which would mean more $$$?

 

[jimmysmitty]

5Ghz? Lot higher than I've seen a Q9550!

But are you talking air or LN2? I haven't seen very many low-mid end quad cores being used for LN2 OCing. Normally they use whatever the best of the best is. So yea.

And isn't the i7 965 stock clocked at 3.33Ghz? If so, the % overclock is ~equal. (3->4.95 [165%] ; 3.33-> 5.23 [157%])

But still. 5.23GHz is pretty impressive. So would 6GHz if it could be done without having to lower the HT clock...

According to the fanboyz over at UAEZone, Tom's, Anand's and just about all other sites are paid Intel shill sites, so I doubt any reviews from them will dispel their preformed opinions. Some of them are still arguing that the Phenom 1 is superior to anything Intel has or ever willl have .

Of course. Because we don't conform to their "Only what we think is right and if you disagree you are a fanboy or paid schill" motto.

But hey. We can't all be super cool non paid Intel people can we?

BTW, I haven't started to recieve any checks from Intel.... starting to worry they might not be coming.....

 

[randomizer]

So, which would this person get? A DDR3 based Core i7 or i5 system now, or an AM2+ Phenom II then go to AM3 later, which would mean more $$$?

That person is stupid. Stick to the LGA775 system.

 

[NMDante]

That person is stupid. Stick to the LGA775 system.

I'm with you, random. Still running skt 775 systems, myself.

 

[spathotan]

I will more than likely, 90% chance, getting a Q9550 after the alleged price drops in January.

 

[randomizer]

I'm with you, random. Still running skt 775 systems, myself.

There is alot of power in Core i7, but as usual, most software lags generations behind.

 

[Reynod]

Nothing wrong with LGA775 at least for a while it reigns King for Gaming ... on a better budget.

I do hope AM2+ with a P2 will produce a likewise result for all of the AMD punters out there who have had a bad trot over the last couple of years ... a plug and play (decent gaming FPS) result for them would be a great win.

I don't place much faith in synthetic benchmarks myself.

FPS on games at decent resolution is the proof in the pudding for me ...

Good power envlope (and you can thank THG for doing all of those efficiency tests in that regard) with low power at idle and decent IPC under load with plenty of headroom ... all the ticks in the right boxes for me.

That's where Intel have had the advantage over the last couple of years.

AMD catching up to Intel's last gen CPU is also a good thing.

Honestly I didn't think they would so the liquid immersion tech being applied to SIO seems to be producing just a as good a result as the Hafnium based high-k process.

What we don't know is the yeild.

I hope ol AMD stays in business ....

All Intel fans should make sure they buy ATI 4xxx cards ... to help keep AMD afloat.

This forces Intel to keep producing better CPU's.

I am waiting for the huge rabbit NVidia will pull out of it's hat ... I have no doubt about the surprise they are bound to deliver shortly.

They have gone awefully quiet ...

 

[spathotan]

All thats comming from nvidia is re-hashes, revisions, re-releases, re-namings, and other random re's. Theyve been stuck on this path for the past 2 years.

 

[randomizer]

All thats comming from nvidia is re-hashes, revisions, re-releases, re-namings, and other random re's. Theyve been stuck on this path for the past 2 years.

Well, if it makes them more money than designing a new architecture then why not?

 

[spathotan]

Nvidia posted its first loss in 5 years in the second quarter of this year. FYI.

 

[randomizer]

Which means nothing in this case. They could have lost more by investing more in R&D. Enthusiasts care about refreshes. Joe Blow-my-money-on-anything cares about which card has a higher model number and more RAM. There are alot of Joes on the planet and not alot of enthusiasts.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

...I do hope AM2+ with a P2 will produce a likewise result for all of the AMD punters out there who have had a bad trot over the last couple of years ... a plug and play (decent gaming FPS) result for them would be a great win...

That's my take on PII - a great upgrade if you're already AM2, or just buy AMD for other reasons, but not a lot of reason for anyone with a newer Intel system to switch.

I also think that AMD is going to be cutting further back on R&D, what with the now-600 job cuts and the ATI purchase writeoff to make their Q4 numbers not look as disastrous as they would otherwise on Jan. 22nd. They've pushed Bulldozer and 32nm back, cut Bobcat before the netbook market became the highest growth segment, and have made some other moves indicating that they are reducing their competitive efforts by a large margin.

If Westmere is a drop-in replacement for an i7 920, I think that would be the path with an assured upgrade, for anyone wanting a new system.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Regarding net books http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212523
And
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212665

 

[spoonboy]

It can be good in gaming, thats no argument. But the case remains that they aimed for a wrong crowd. Soooooo many people already have Q6600's....E8400s......or compatable motherboards. Alot more than people who have good/decent AM2+ boards. The odds of those people droping their LGA775 platforms to switch to P2 for a 5% performance boost isnt very high. So the majority of sales are going to come from

A. People looking to upgrade that are currently using legacy parts
B. People looking to ditch Phenom 1
C. People who already have compatable AM2 boards

And unfortunately Intel is winning in the numbers game, so the people who fall into any of those 3 categories arent in "great" numbers. Bad for AMD, good for those people. Ive said all this before.

Ill be honest and I hate to admit it, im a motherboard whore. I love a badass looking motherboard with good color blending and effective and great looking cooling. If somebody makes an AMD chipset with all of that (none of the current picking) then ill drop this Q6600/P45 for a P2, 5% performance increase or not. Ill waste the money.

Im considering AM3 and im not a nut job, neither is running on old 775 hardware a marginal thing. My p5B deluxe is borderline compatible with 9 series quads and 8 series duals with E0 stepping using a beta bios you have to specifically request from asus support or go digging around for on the 'net (version 1237) and oh yes, doesnt like X.5 multipliers either. The only ones worth it over the long run are the e8600 or q9650 for their high multipliers but both are way WAY overpriced (150 quid and 300 quid respectively). So yes unless there's a HUGE price drop on them I might as well sit tight till AM3 chips and boards show up with the sb800 south bridges.

A word of warning to early i7 adopters coming from an early conroe adopter ------------>> time may not be kind to your mobo. Dont feel guaranteed that 32nm models will just slot right in and work nicely 18 months down the line.

 

[spoonboy]

Well, if it makes them more money than designing a new architecture then why not?

for our sake the consumer lol. Lets see them plug the same old hat g92 stuff until q2 2009. Spathotan has a point though, Nvidias got nothing but a g80 derivative for the midrange since the end of october 07 till the end of spring next year. 18/20 months of old tech made from older tech given lots of different names. Puts a bad taste in the mouth.

 

[spoonboy]

That's my take on PII - a great upgrade if you're already AM2, or just buy AMD for other reasons, but not a lot of reason for anyone with a newer Intel system to switch.

I also think that AMD is going to be cutting further back on R&D, what with the now-600 job cuts and the ATI purchase writeoff to make their Q4 numbers not look as disastrous as they would otherwise on Jan. 22nd. They've pushed Bulldozer and 32nm back, cut Bobcat before the netbook market became the highest growth segment, and have made some other moves indicating that they are reducing their competitive efforts by a large margin.

If Westmere is a drop-in replacement for an i7 920, I think that would be the path with an assured upgrade, for anyone wanting a new system.

hang on a sec nvidia was saying something similar about ati earlier this year on bit-tech.net saying theyve cut spending and they wont keep competitive. Not making any great predictions either way about what phenom 2 is gonna do but just sayin looking at the money-being-spent numbers dont always mean much.

Heres the article (funny to read it now!):

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/04/30/david-kirk-interview/6

 

[randomizer]

for our sake the consumer lol.

When was the last time any corporation really cared about the consumer, not just their credit card?

 

[amdfangirl]

When was the last time any corporation really cared about the consumer, not just their credit card?

Corporations only care about money, you should know that by now.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Regarding net books http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212523
And
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212665

Wunnerful, wunnerful. So where can somebody buy actual AMD netbooks??

As somebody else mentioned in another thread, CPU power is not the main criterion for netbooks - it's really all about being super mobile and connectivity, sorta like the iPhone or Crackberry on a bit larger screen and a bit faster loading.

Although I will admit more power is good as long as battery life remains decent . As James T. Kirk used to say, Warp power NOW would be good, Scotty!