Actual deneb review/comparison to Intel

[Just_An_Engineer]

4.95 GHz for the Phenom


(Ed.: In preparation for benchmarking Phenom II, I asked AMD about the overclocking results garnered for our Phenom II sample under the influence of LN2. The answer was that the HyperTransport link was limiting scalability. If you're going to take the chip to extreme frequencies, you'll want to drop down to 1 GHz or so on the HT interconnect rather than its default HT3 speeds. On air, however, HyperTransport shouldn't be a limiting factor.)

Nearly 5 GHz is still a damn impressive score especially since it sounds like they could have gotten more if they had dropped the HT speed as suggested by AMD.

 

[jed]

Nearly 5 GHz is still a damn impressive score especially since it sounds like they could have gotten more if they had dropped the HT speed as suggested by AMD.

The reason the didn't bother changing the HT speed is because they
thought it wouldn't matter.

 

[Just_An_Engineer]

Nearly 5 GHz is still a damn impressive score especially since it sounds like they could have gotten more if they had dropped the HT speed as suggested by AMD.

The reason the didn't bother changing the HT speed is because they
thought it wouldn't matter.

That's what I gathered from the article. As with any new processor generation overclockers are going to need some time to play with them before they figure out all of the tricks needed to get the highest clocks.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Changing the HT to 1000 makes all the difference in the world when ocing these chips with LN2, as has been seen time and time again by others who also have this chip. 4.9 has been achieved on phase change, so Toms failed here, and ignored what alot of others already know. Smacks of a Cavalier attitude, as if they know more than AMD about these chips?
Ive already said, I expect the P2 to be 2-3% better than Kentsfield, clock for clock, thus a 3Ghz chip will dominate a 2.4 chip, with extra oc headroom to boot. Even looking at old benches, the P1 wasnt that far behind Kentsfield in many real world apps clock for clock, while others will benefit alot from having more cache. Also, having a AM3, we will see the HT go even higher, meaning for some apps a lil more performance.

Time will tell on these cpus. Not long to wait. Its too close to actually know how good these are in any comparisons, as everything isnt quite set yet. I would think only 1 thing about this chip, that the wiser of us hope it does well for obvious reasons, reasons which are many

 

[Dekasav]

5Ghz? Lot higher than I've seen a Q9550!

 

[Dekasav]

And isn't the i7 965 stock clocked at 3.33Ghz? If so, the % overclock is ~equal. (3->4.95 [165%] ; 3.33-> 5.23 [157%])

 

[rangers]

trust toms, to make a half hearted attempt at a review/preview

 

[Just_An_Engineer]

trust toms, to make a half hearted attempt at a review/preview

I miss the days when the reviews at Tom's were actually good.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

That is utter crap jaydee.

True - he's trying to compare AMD's finest and latest with Intel's 2-yr-old EOLed CPU. However I agree with him that we need to wait and see lots of legitimate reviews, which does not include AMD dog & pony demoes by the way.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

we'll have to wait till next week maybe the following to see tom's and all the other sites to do a review of Phenom II.

According to the fanboyz over at UAEZone, Tom's, Anand's and just about all other sites are paid Intel shill sites, so I doubt any reviews from them will dispel their preformed opinions. Some of them are still arguing that the Phenom 1 is superior to anything Intel has or ever willl have .

 

[roofus]

well calling Tom's or Anand's shills just because you dont like the results is ignorant. even if they can be benched better than they accomplished, that was their first stab at it. AMD has had a couple months to perfect their overclocking demonstrations and i am sure they had trouble even doing as well as others their first time at it. once Tom's and Anand have more time to pick the optimal platform and components to try it again i am sure it will be alot different.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

well calling Tom's or Anand's shills just because you dont like the results is ignorant. even if they can be benched better than they accomplished, that was their first stab at it. AMD has had a couple months to perfect their overclocking demonstrations and i am sure they had trouble even doing as well as others their first time at it. once Tom's and Anand have more time to pick the optimal platform and components to try it again i am sure it will be alot different.

I agree. If AMDZone was of any significance you'd think AMD would send them some ES or retail chips to test .

We have a rather wide spectrum of pro-Intel and pro-AMD posters here at Tom's, which is good in that it tends to keep people honest unless they want to get branded as extremists and fanboyz like Sharikook and the now-banned Mrs. Bytch. Also people tend to go out and gather info from other sites to post here.

The AMDZoners are usually quick to flame anybody who is not 110% in AMD's hip pocket, and they tend to get banned whenever the mods get tired of them or they make too much sense .

 

[BadTrip]

Here's a pro-Intel thread JDJ started last month: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/254861-28-28ghz-super-super

Not everyone agrees with Jaydee's opinions but I personally respect the way he conducts himself by being generally respectful in his posts even when he is being viciously flamed by people with dissenting opinions. You on the other hand are quick to stoop to childish name calling and frequently seek to start flame wars which is why I don't and likely never will have any semblance of respect for you or your opinions.

I will really be losing sleep about it. 😴

 

[jed]

Dekasav

5Ghz? Lot higher than I've seen a Q9550!

You know what i find pretty funny the native core cpu's suppose
to be the best that anyone can buy, Now AMD is on their secound
gen. phenom chip that can,t go head to head with intels first gen.
i7.

Now you can say what you want, and dress it up any way you
want , but when you compare the phenom to anything but a i7
it's a failure on AMD's part.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

This isnt second gen, its only a shrink, with tweaks. Or , not a toc, if you will. When this cpu was comceived, it was waaaay before Nehalem, so Intel has a head start in their first native quad, simply because when the designs were started. If this was based on P4 archetecture, we wouldnt be seeing the finer points of i7 that we have now, and Intel has said as much, having the need of core2 to be able to do this. Westmere is the cpu everyone really is waiting for, just like P2. You hear alot of references to Sandy Bridge and especially Bulldozer, and especially for AMD, this is truly going to be different, and needed, and hopefully will come before Sandybridge, as these two uarch' will truly be something. So, in essence, second gen is really Bulldozer, while SandyBridge will be for Intel

 

[randomizer]

I'm not entirely unimpressed with these CPUs. But the make or break point will be the price point. I will probably skip Phenom II and Westmere if the majority of game devs don't step up there game and relise that 2 threads is so 2004, or essentially if my E6600 becomes obsolete. However, in the case of a dead mobo/CPU in the next year or so, Phenom II will likely be my choice of platform. LGA775 is a dead-end, and i7 (and its platform) has such a bloated price that it will never fit through the door of my cheapskate house.

 

[jed]

jaydeejohn

This isnt second gen, its only a shrink, with tweaks. Or , not a toc, if you will. When this cpu was comceived, it was waaaay before Nehalem, so Intel has a head start in their first native quad, simply because when the designs were started. If this was based on P4 archetecture, we wouldnt be seeing the finer points of i7 that we have now, and Intel has said as much, having the need of core2 to be able to do this. Westmere is the cpu everyone really is waiting for, just like P2. You hear alot of references to Sandy Bridge and especially Bulldozer, and especially for AMD, this is truly going to be different, and needed, and hopefully will come before Sandybridge, as these two uarch' will truly be something. So, in essence, second gen is really Bulldozer, while SandyBridge will be for Intel

So are sayin AMD shouldn't be ahead of intel with the native core cpu's,
and all of the phenom chips shouldn't be compared to the i7 only.
which to me is native core against native core, seems pretty fair to me.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

No, what Im saying is, AMD should have already had this performance when P1 came out, or close to it. They hadnt tuned their system til recently, the clocks werent achievable on P1 etc. If theyd had it tuned, where now you see P1's getting over 3Ghz at first, and if they had a 3Ghz to start with, plus the tuning. Theyve essentually lost the first rev with P1, and thats why we see such a huge disparity between P1 and P2. Instead of just a 7% i9ncrease, we have the clocks as well, and of course power etc, just like I expect Westmere to be much cooler and a tad faster in everything, especially in gaming

 

[jed]

jaydeejohn

No, what Im saying is, AMD should have already had this performance when P1 came out, or close to it. They hadnt tuned their system til recently, the clocks werent achievable on P1 etc. If theyd had it tuned, where now you see P1's getting over 3Ghz at first, and if they had a 3Ghz to start with, plus the tuning. Theyve essentually lost the first rev with P1, and thats why we see such a huge disparity between P1 and P2. Instead of just a 7% i9ncrease, we have the clocks as well, and of course power etc, just like I expect Westmere to be much cooler and a tad faster in everything, especially in gaming

Now with all that said how can you praise a so-so phenom II chip, and
condemn the best cpu which is i7.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Why would I condemn i7? And, as for praise, other than the LN2 ocing, Ive seen nothing about p2 that surprises me to the point of high praise. Happy so far as from what Ive seen would be a better word for it. But, no, if disappointment in i7s gaming performance is considered condemnation to you? Well, Im disappointed

 

[turpit]

I don't put much stock in this review at all as it is mainly synthetic benchmarks, many of which don't mean diddly in terms of real-world performance. I was impressed that the Phenom II processors beat the Yorkfield chips in both x264 and winrar, two programs that the average person may actually use. The gaming benchmarks look a little fishy to me. In the FC2 benchmark the Phenom II has a significant diasadvantage compared to Yorkfield at low resolution but the handicap completely disappears at high resolution, which is strange considering that the same video card is being used. The same could be said about the WIC benchmark. In the CW benchmark the Phenom II takes a disadvantage at low resolution and actually somehow becomes faster than Yorkfield at high res. Again, very strange considering that the same graphics card is being used for all processors.

Does anybody actually believe that the Q6600 should be faster than the Q9450 in FC2 as is suggested by this review?

You know, normally I would agree with you, as no one I know use synthetic3Dsmax for object creation. Ive said as much many times before, but this time, there is something new to consider regarding the validity of synthetic benchmarks: This is the most similar AMD and Intel Uarchs have been in awhile. As such, any benchmark, synthetic or real should portray a much more acurate comparison than with previous generations of CPUs.

That said...........no one I know uses synth3DSmax or plays SynthFarcry

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

LOL could be

 

[turpit]

MODERATOR HAT ON

1: Enough with the name calling. In another thread I called Jay Jaydeepoopookitty. It was not meant derogatorilly, but as a way of making a point regarding definitions....personal definitions vs accepted definitions as provided by accredited sources i.e the Random House dictionary. When I was trying to make my point,, it was not licence to everyone to start calling Jay or anyone else names.....except Sharikook. You can call him anything you want....he is the king of trolls and deserves no courtesy

2: The voting game........stop. You know full well what I will do


MODERATOR HAT OFF

 

[jed]

For gaming you don't have to look past the 9xxx series intel
setup, it's just as cheap if not cheaper then the phenom II setup.
now if you want better for anything other then games theirs only
one setup left and thats i7.


Now i understand as a gamer you wanted more out of i7 in the
way of games, but you should also take note that phenom II
didn't give you the game performance you were looking for either,
so if i7 is a disappointment for games the other has no choice but
to disappoint because the number are no better.

 

[randomizer]

Intel's 9xxx series won't work on my board, and I certainly don't want to upgrade to a dead-end platform, so Phenom II is the only somewhat viable option.