AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[Cazalan]

Is the 20nm tech even ready for mass production yet /by end of year ? And by which all foundries ?

Nvidia has 20nm in their roadmap for Maxwell in 2014.
AMD shows 28nm through 2014.

"Ready" depends on the buyers expectation of the yields. Both are being more cautious about that after the 28nm struggles.

 

[sarinaide]

^ What i wonder is if the HD8000 will be 20nm or not. At 28nm, is there much more room for improvement ? On the same node, I would say that the max perf they can get is ~15% without raising the TDP.

I have my doubts over 20nm. I heard both AMD and Nvidia projected 20-25% from top end to top end. but i saw the 8850 is 40% faster than the 7850, but we know the 7850 was sandbagged. I would love to be wrong particularly for kaveri a 20nm Radeon SIMD would be just peachy.

I am really starting to love the APU's, just threw in some old faithful 6850's and 6970's and they coped well when I was told competent low cost gamer, I never really thought they would be capable of this.

How was the 7850 sandbagged?

Its not really sandbagged but a 7790 isn't too far off, hey its 10% faster than the 6950 while using almost half the power .

The common tendency was to jump on the 650ti Boost bandwagon, when Nvidia binned its 660 GK104 silicon in a lower price bracket, this while AMD instead of mass producing more stocks on existing SKU's and having them be unsold really just redesigned Southern Islands into a part that is fast and light on power but more importantly very cool in a lower price bracket and eliminated old SKU's in the process. This was a bit of a master stroke and as usual the new peeps at nvidia have a hard time admitting their mistakes.

As above maybe AMD can come up with a 7975XT which is maybe 5-10% slower than the titan and sell it for $600, that will just erode the titan and stick another pin into Nvidia's side. I had not used a Radeon prior to around 2011, having seen the direction Nvidia is going I am not really happy with the all talk no action approach, GeForce used to mean a lot more than a corporate show pony that it is becoming. Some keep telling me Nvidia is the industry leader but I don't see it anything like that, all they do is wait and react to the competitor then call it innovation, I for one am getting tired of the tiddly winking going on there.

 

[jdwii]

From a performance perspective why is the titan so popular its 5% slower than a 690 and 4% faster than a 7970 x2?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_Titan_SLI/22.html

 

[sarinaide]

From a performance perspective why is the titan so popular its 5% slower than a 690 and 4% faster than a 7970 x2?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_Titan_SLI/22.html

It ranges in its performance advantage, true its the fastest single GPU out but Nvidia did take a Tesla K20X toss in the GK110 mantra and say "See we told you we was holding back". The titan is a great niche card and performance for a professional workstation, but it also represents a massive Nvidia fail, they need to bin GPU's to produce results because the all conquering 680 of April/May 2012 quickly became the surplus to requirments.

If you can afford a Titan, go for it, it is a good product but its rather pointless for what you need. If AMD re constructs a 7975XT or something like that and sits it up right behind the Titan with a lower price tag, then Nvidia will rapidly drop the titans price or they will sit with unsold silicon yet again.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

^

If you can afford a Titan, go for it, it is a good product but its rather pointless for what you need. If AMD re constructs a 7975XT or something like that and sits it up right behind the Titan with a lower price tag, then Nvidia will rapidly drop the titans price or they will sit with unsold silicon yet again.

Highly unlikely. Titans are being sold faster than Nvidia can produce them. It is a definite HALO product.

 

[sarinaide]

^

If you can afford a Titan, go for it, it is a good product but its rather pointless for what you need. If AMD re constructs a 7975XT or something like that and sits it up right behind the Titan with a lower price tag, then Nvidia will rapidly drop the titans price or they will sit with unsold silicon yet again.

Highly unlikely. Titans are being sold faster than Nvidia can produce them. It is a definite HALO product.

Yeah the process is so complex and silicon sparse that they cannot produce enough for people wanting to drop 1k bombs. The point was that if AMD came along with a mass produced on tap 7975XT (scaled up TahitiXT Pro) and bombarded stockists with a card that was only marginally slower at a lower cost, then everyone will jump ship because the titan is really only a niche product.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

nVidia knows how to market halo, and its something AMD is learning to do.
The problem we see now with nodes coming further apart, especially since skipping a node here or there to keep up with Intel, the midterm family upgrades have been stretched in delivery, but a 1950XT type 7970 wouldnt be a bad idea, tho if the market and previous decisions have set into motion a longer waiting period, like with the game packages and good sales for the 7970 today, they may postpone such a midterm family upgrade or eliminate it altogether , again determined by the maturity of the new node coming.
They arent going to jump on 20nm, its just not going to happen.
Ramping smaller chips on a newer node helps bring its maturity forwards somewhat, and costs decline as well.
All these and more factors play into when the new cards will be seen.

 

[gamerk316]

From a performance perspective why is the titan so popular its 5% slower than a 690 and 4% faster than a 7970 x2?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_Titan_SLI/22.html

Single GPU? That alone would make it more attractive then any SLI-option, especially from a latency perspective.

Aside from that, NVIDIA knows their market. Its pure "look at me" economics.

 

[Cazalan]

Titan is an engineering feat. At 7.1 billion transistors it is the largest single die ASIC in the world.

Of course the yields will be terrible at almost twice the size of any previous chip. I wouldn't buy one but it's still impressive how far they've pushed the 28nm node.

 

[Cazalan]

Intel Crystalwell (GT3e 5200)

The eDRAM die is sizable.

 

[m32]

^ DAT DIE.

 

[hcl123]

umm... doesn't look like Haswell, the larger chip in that socket is just too "square" compared with what has been circulated

 

[Mitrovah]

I have been hearing about the new AMd APU Kaveri, Im thinking about building a gaming pc with amd apu should I even wait for the Kaveri, From what I have read, it is designed for mobile pcs not desktop is that right?

 

[-Fran-]

Intel Crystalwell (GT3e 5200)

The eDRAM die is sizable.

Don't tell me the big square is the included RAM?

Looks nice, as every porn-CPU shot. Thanks for sharing 8)

Cheers!

 

[jdwii]

From a performance perspective why is the titan so popular its 5% slower than a 690 and 4% faster than a 7970 x2?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_Titan_SLI/22.html

Single GPU? That alone would make it more attractive then any SLI-option, especially from a latency perspective.

Aside from that, NVIDIA knows their market. Its pure "look at me" economics.

Actually i just noticed that it was a single GPU wow i'm a beginner its actually nothing special since its such a HUGE die i'm actually sure Amd could do this with less but honestly probably isn't worth it. I think you can honestly see that Amd got rid of GPU engineers since their just now coming out with a 7990 usually Amd brought that product out faster.

 

[8350rocks]

From a performance perspective why is the titan so popular its 5% slower than a 690 and 4% faster than a 7970 x2?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_Titan_SLI/22.html

Single GPU? That alone would make it more attractive then any SLI-option, especially from a latency perspective.

Aside from that, NVIDIA knows their market. Its pure "look at me" economics.

Actually i just noticed that it was a single GPU wow i'm a beginner its actually nothing special since its such a HUGE die i'm actually sure Amd could do this with less but honestly probably isn't worth it. I think you can honestly see that Amd got rid of GPU engineers since their just now coming out with a 7990 usually Amd brought that product out faster.

GCN 2.0...once they get that going...it will be something to see...

 

[mayankleoboy1]

http://hwbot.org/news/9347_intel_haswell_overclocking_fully_disclosed_theory_for_core_i7_4770k/

Details (in proper english) about Haswell overclocking. You all can read it the usual stuff. But this caught my eye :

In this case, 22nm. Previous Tocks were Sandy Bridge and Nehalem. The next generation of Intel products will be a Tick and brings the Haswell micro-architecture to 18nm. The fifth generation of Intel Core products we know as Broadwell. The next Tock, after Broadwell in 2014, is Skylake and is scheduled for 2015 release.

Intel will move from 22nm --> 18nm --> 14nm ???

 

[Cazalan]

Intel will move from 22nm --> 18nm --> 14nm ???

Probably just a typo. Intel already taped out Broadwell 14nm and has samples running windows. Mass production starting end of this year.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

It should be 16nm
Every other node halved

 

[anxiousinfusion]

I have been hearing about the new AMd APU Kaveri, Im thinking about building a gaming pc with amd apu should I even wait for the Kaveri, From what I have read, it is designed for mobile pcs not desktop is that right?

The emphasis of development is on mobile but all APUs have been released in both mobile and desktop variants.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

It should be 16nm
Every other node halved

No 14nm ?

 

[Cazalan]

umm... doesn't look like Haswell, the larger chip in that socket is just too "square" compared with what has been circulated

I think the more rectangular one was the i3 version. Those early presentations were all about low power.

The image came from vr-zone who snagged it at IDF Beijing yesterday.

 

[sarinaide]

 

[Cazalan]

Intel Crystalwell (GT3e 5200)

The eDRAM die is sizable.

Don't tell me the big square is the included RAM?

Looks nice, as every porn-CPU shot. Thanks for sharing 8)

Cheers!

The rectangular die on the right is the eDRAM. Which is roughly 1/3 the size of the Haswell die. Rumor is 64MByte capacity. Not very big but it will be very high bandwidth.

 

[sarinaide]

Looks like Kaveri, which has two DDR5 units.