Somewhat OT, but helps explain the process and the application to achieve your goals when making a chip in your desired niche
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/05/10/intel-talks-about-their-22nm-p1271-soc-process-for-silvermont/
Now think real quick, how much more expensive was that laptop from an equivalent desktop? How much extra for the docking station (should be a port replicator, docking stations have their own internal PCIe bus amongst other things)? The keyboard + mouse + monitor are necessary for office work anyway. Essentially your paying significantly more for the exact same capabilities, unless there is a need to "work from home after work" aka providing free hours.
And now the issue becomes clear, only those people who need travel a lot or otherwise need to perform their work after hours / from home need to have the extra expensive incurred from a mobile solution. Mobile is NOT replacing desktop, it's complimenting it, which has been my assertion the entire time.
Well not exactly. Laptops have certainly displaced desktops (at my company at least) as the primary compute device. Each of our 100k+ employees have standard issue laptops /w docking station. Desktops and workstations are distributed as needed. So it's sort of the other way around where desktops are complimented laptops if one needs to get some heavy computing done for ones job..
Not to mention how utterly weak the hardware is, composing an email was excruciatingly painful.
That's your perception having grown up with desktop computers as the norm. My 4 year old nephew emails me from his iPhone and that's just how it's done in his world. He can work an iPad/iPhone better than I can. To him a full size keyboard is awkward. I can't stand touch or on-screen keyboards but the youth of today don't care. They know how to swipe. They take mobility over power any day.
I've composed emails on 90Mhz Pentium PCs. I don't know how it's possible for a 1Ghz+ smartphone to be worse than that. Email is one of the most basic and simple things you can do on a computer. I don't even get personal emails anymore, that's just for work. At home I just get text/IM messages.
I personally can't stand tablets, but that is my perspective. They're still selling like hot cakes. What I hear you saying is they're not up to your standards, but I have cousins that don't even own PCs anymore. Or they have them but they're never turned on anymore. For them the phone/tablet has taken over every aspect they needed.
Five years back at a family get together people would gravitate toward the family PC at some point to share things, or play some games, look at the latest Youtube craze.
Thinking back to Easter people just stayed in the living room or out on the deck. Cell phones, tablets, that is all people looked at. The kids didn't go on the computer anymore. No one even went in the computer room. The kids aren't asking their parents to buy them a PC anymore. They want the latest phone/tablet.
The notion that the traditional desktop/laptop PC is on decline just because of market saturation is a misnomer. There is simply less demand for it.
here is my take. I fkin hate mobile pages with a passion. they straight suck. you get constantly directed to a mobile page because your on a cell phone, and some don't even offer a redirect or the link is broken.
2. I have 3 browsers installed because not all web pages I need access to work in one way or another. I can't even use toms forums with the default browser because the login box is "transparent" and it takes the random ad behind the box. opera works ok, but you have to click reply twice to get to the edit area.
3. if the phone rings or alarm goes off, whatever you were doing is gone because the app closed due to limited resources. sorry, your resume just got erased. web pages are usually reloaded so that information is gone too and if you were logged in doing something, ie online banking paying a bill, start over.
the reason smart phones are taking off, they are replacing home phones, and have very LIMITED usability as a pc.
not to mention the gpu is slower than even an intel igp. there are certain programs (namingly high end games) that will never be available on a smart phone.
I agree with some others, dt sales are slow because that 4 yr old system works just fine today, unlike the pentium/athlon days where speed doubled quite readily.
Now the real question is, for DT, and those who want them if it is good enough, isnt it only marketing that wins at this point?
The power saved isnt in question, the perf isnt in question, only initial cost and availability.
In SFF's, we see the fabs rushing to newer nodes as never before, as they too follow this trend.
Possibly a future Opteron APU? Not likely, but not out of the question either.
That would be like an Opteron 6380 fused with a Radeon 7850.
Transistor count. 2.4B + 2.8B - 1B (L3 cache) = 4.2B
That's a big boy. Maybe at 20nm.
its likely something to compete with xeon phi if its real. It would be closer to 3.5B transistors and probably does 500 mflop or 1gflop DP. They can put 2 of them on 1 card if they wanted to.
Its unlikely to be real tho.
that picture was shopped from this one. Someone went and blurred it and ctrl shift I on it.
Now think real quick, how much more expensive was that laptop from an equivalent desktop? How much extra for the docking station (should be a port replicator, docking stations have their own internal PCIe bus amongst other things)? The keyboard + mouse + monitor are necessary for office work anyway. Essentially your paying significantly more for the exact same capabilities, unless there is a need to "work from home after work" aka providing free hours.
And now the issue becomes clear, only those people who need travel a lot or otherwise need to perform their work after hours / from home need to have the extra expensive incurred from a mobile solution. Mobile is NOT replacing desktop, it's complimenting it, which has been my assertion the entire time.
Oh, yes. New era slavery indeed. The business excuse was "if you ever have the need to work extra hours, do it from home ". Yeah, really peachy...
Anyway, I do think they are different and one won't replace the other fully and I agree with you in that. A Desktop is and always will be faster in almost every way than a Lappy. Lappies have inherent constraints to them (thermals and space) that will limit them in favor of portability, but they have reached a point where the "good enough" is already behind and now is "very good replacement". Smartphones are entering the "almost good enough" territory IMO, but will be getting closer and closer, but never really reach Desktop performance and usefulness when in a stand still for work or servers, etc.
On the other hand, regarding price... Oh yeah... This must have been costly from a Company point of view. It must have been very expensive this shift. They haven't done a wide computers replacements since 2006 I think.
Also, heavy work and heavy testing is usually offloaded to servers, so a Lappy does indeed provide "very close" performance to a regular Desktop for office stuff and with a little patience, programming stuff.
Blandge :
Well not exactly. Laptops have certainly displaced desktops (at my company at least) as the primary compute device. Each of our 100k+ employees have standard issue laptops /w docking station. Desktops and workstations are distributed as needed. So it's sort of the other way around where desktops are complimented laptops if one needs to get some heavy computing done for ones job..
If you ask me, personally, I'd rather have a Desktop instead of a Lappy, but there's a mixed bag of reasons for this call that you could argue. Reality is that our Lappies, not being as fast as the desktops, are not bad in any way and feel just a tad behind the desktops they replaced for daily use, since the bottleneck is the encrypted HDD.
We all got Dell Latitude 6400/6500 series (i5/i7 + 1600x900 + 8GB DDR3 + 512GB encrypted + NVS4200M/5200M) in a comfy 14" size.
From the picture, things like, 72-bit DDR3 ECC memory....features like AMD-V and AMD-P,unified north bridge all doesn't point it to be a GPU alone,if it is.Looks more of an APU.
Unless something is confirmed officially or some more convincing evidences come up nothing much we can make out of that.
Possibly a future Opteron APU? Not likely, but not out of the question either.
That would be like an Opteron 6380 fused with a Radeon 7850.
Transistor count. 2.4B + 2.8B - 1B (L3 cache) = 4.2B
That's a big boy. Maybe at 20nm.
its likely something to compete with xeon phi if its real. It would be closer to 3.5B transistors and probably does 500 mflop or 1gflop DP. They can put 2 of them on 1 card if they wanted to.
Its unlikely to be real tho.
that picture was shopped from this one. Someone went and blurred it and ctrl shift I on it.
Not to mention how utterly weak the hardware is, composing an email was excruciatingly painful.
That's your perception having grown up with desktop computers as the norm. My 4 year old nephew emails me from his iPhone and that's just how it's done in his world. He can work an iPad/iPhone better than I can. To him a full size keyboard is awkward. I can't stand touch or on-screen keyboards but the youth of today don't care. They know how to swipe. They take mobility over power any day.
I've composed emails on 90Mhz Pentium PCs. I don't know how it's possible for a 1Ghz+ smartphone to be worse than that. Email is one of the most basic and simple things you can do on a computer. I don't even get personal emails anymore, that's just for work. At home I just get text/IM messages.
I personally can't stand tablets, but that is my perspective. They're still selling like hot cakes. What I hear you saying is they're not up to your standards, but I have cousins that don't even own PCs anymore. Or they have them but they're never turned on anymore. For them the phone/tablet has taken over every aspect they needed.
Five years back at a family get together people would gravitate toward the family PC at some point to share things, or play some games, look at the latest Youtube craze.
Thinking back to Easter people just stayed in the living room or out on the deck. Cell phones, tablets, that is all people looked at. The kids didn't go on the computer anymore. No one even went in the computer room. The kids aren't asking their parents to buy them a PC anymore. They want the latest phone/tablet.
The notion that the traditional desktop/laptop PC is on decline just because of market saturation is a misnomer. There is simply less demand for it.
here is my take. I fkin hate mobile pages with a passion. they straight suck. you get constantly directed to a mobile page because your on a cell phone, and some don't even offer a redirect or the link is broken.
2. I have 3 browsers installed because not all web pages I need access to work in one way or another. I can't even use toms forums with the default browser because the login box is "transparent" and it takes the random ad behind the box. opera works ok, but you have to click reply twice to get to the edit area.
3. if the phone rings or alarm goes off, whatever you were doing is gone because the app closed due to limited resources. sorry, your resume just got erased. web pages are usually reloaded so that information is gone too and if you were logged in doing something, ie online banking paying a bill, start over.
the reason smart phones are taking off, they are replacing home phones, and have very LIMITED usability as a pc.
not to mention the gpu is slower than even an intel igp. there are certain programs (namingly high end games) that will never be available on a smart phone.
I agree with some others, dt sales are slow because that 4 yr old system works just fine today, unlike the pentium/athlon days where speed doubled quite readily.
^+1 Agree with everything you said, furthermore as that 4 year old grows he's going to want more than just a smartphone. Smartphones are great, and I would wager that everyone on this page has one and enjoys it, but there are some things that they just aren't good for or flat out can't do. I personally have large hands and find it frustrating to just send texts as I have to try up to 10 times to enter one word correctly sometimes. As that child grows they won't be able to input words as easily on the small touchscreens. As he enters upper education he's not going to want to do a report, thesis, spreadsheets, ect on a smartphone. As he gets older and hangs out with friends who are all playing the latest video games he will want to play too, so he will either need a console system or a gaming DESKTOP PC. Most people on this page will agree a good gaming PC will always outlast a console system as they can be upgraded when needed, and have adequate cooling so they won't RROD.
No smartphone, tablet, or laptop can do the heavy duty computing, programming, and gaming that most people delve into. Even if you never need to do heavy duty computing for your job you may like to compile and transcode movies, or more than likely you may enjoy to play new video games. Laptops will take much longer to do certain tasks than a desktop, and no smartphone or laptop can video game like a desktop. You can't upgrade them, and if you overclock them or push too hard they will burn up as there is inadequate cooling. There are a lot of light duty things that smartphones and laptops are great at, and having the mobility to do those things is great. However there are a lot of highly important things that smartphones and laptops simply don't do well or flat out can't do and that is why there will always be a need and market for desktop PCs.
According to this, Intel's Haswell looks like a really bad upgrade, other then the iGPU, which give AMD more time to improve their CPUs, and hopefully get closer in those single threaded apps.
According to this, Intel's Haswell looks like a really bad upgrade, other then the iGPU, which give AMD more time to improve their CPUs, and hopefully get closer in those single threaded apps.
If you're looking for ultrabooks this summer, it's a pretty nice upgrade.
As for PC enthusiasts, yup, no one is going to replace their OC Sandy Bridge anytime soon.
According to this, Intel's Haswell looks like a really bad upgrade, other then the iGPU, which give AMD more time to improve their CPUs, and hopefully get closer in those single threaded apps.
Therefore softpedia's early claim that Steamroller will beat Haswell looks still more realistic now.
According to this, Intel's Haswell looks like a really bad upgrade, other then the iGPU, which give AMD more time to improve their CPUs, and hopefully get closer in those single threaded apps.
Now I really hope Steamroller is a huge improvement over Piledriver. If they can really pull off 30-40% improvement over Piledriver that would place Steamroller ahead of Haswell. In my opinion Intel dropped the ball by only doing minor tweaks while concentrating on integrated graphics. They felt that they are so far ahead of AMD that they didn't have to put a lot of thought or work into Haswell, I would love to see Intel get nipped in their lazy overconfident arses.
If that review is spot on than the door has been opened for AMD. There may never be another more perfect opportunity for AMD to make a full comeback. It would be great to see AMD Steamroller beat Intel Haswell on benchmark tests created for Intel processors
Haswell is turning out to be a bigger fail than even what Toms early preview suggested.
Did anyone see "memory reads" are slower than IB ?
Winrar, which is heavily memory limited, gets regressed in Haswell .
The only way i see Haswell winning is for code specifically written to use AVX2 , or written with enough hints to allow compilers to optimise the code.
I think Haswell will work much better in Linux, with -march=native switch.
The thing with Intel is even if they get beat they will act as if they are still the best and use cherry picked benchmarks to back them up. Even if Steamroller is as great as I'm hoping it will be AMD will more than likely still be behind Intel in single core execution. Weather or not single core execution is even that important at this point in time or moving into the future is a debate unto itself, however Intel will still be able to bloat the internet with single core execution benchmarks that put Haswell superior to Steamroller. With Intel dropping the ball I'm hoping Steamroller will trounce Haswell in all other benchmarks, especially multi-threaded gaming benchmarks. Really Intel fans should be hoping the same as Intel is sputtering and producing "non-upgrades". If Steamroller comes out strong and outperforms Haswell in real world computing than Intel is going to have to actually get to work, scurry about and release a real upgrade. Lets face it Intel only tries to produce a good product when the competition has them on the ropes.
It would be great to see AMD Steamroller beat Intel Haswell on benchmark tests created for Intel processors
This ^__^
mayankleoboy1 :
Haswell is turning out to be a bigger fail than even what Toms early preview suggested.
Did anyone see "memory reads" are slower than IB ?
Winrar, which is heavily memory limited, gets regressed in Haswell .
The only way i see Haswell winning is for code specifically written to use AVX2 , or written with enough hints to allow compilers to optimise the code.
I think Haswell will work much better in Linux, with -march=native switch.
Haswell --> FailWell
Possible regressions, usb issues, PSU incompatibility, new mobo required, expensive...
Has someone noted how they use 2600 MHz RAM? Try to repeat the tests using the 'standard' 1600 MHz in ivy Bridge builts and let us see how the performance gain reduces to almost nothing.
Never heard that Haswell will work better on Linux, but Steamroller compiler optimizations were already released: march=bdver3
atleast we can have overclockable intel cpus at cheap price
any news of haswell i3 ?
in q4 2013. almost at the same time ivb i3's came out.
btw, there's a 'intel's future chips' thread for haswell stuff, on sr thread, it looks off-topic.
....
darn.
haswell isn't that interesting anyway. jaguar is more interesting.
edit: besides, no one knows how bclk overclocking will affect lower end haswell cpus. at best, it might add 300 or 500+ mhz, at worst, it might be same as ivb cpus.
The thing with Intel is even if they get beat they will act as if they are still the best and use cherry picked benchmarks to back them up.
Everybody does it. Its bad, but you cant single out one company for doing this.
juanrga :
Haswell --> FailWell
/me likes.
Has someone noted how they use 2600 MHz RAM? Try to repeat the tests using the 'standard' 1600 MHz in ivy Bridge builts and let us see how the performance gain reduces to almost nothing.
". Yeah, really peachy...
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