AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[griptwister]

More Triple A titles to support mantle ?
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/more-trippe-a-titles-to-support-mantle.html

See a lot of Cryengine 3 on there; that still going to be around if Crytek goes under? Because they are essentially bankrupt at this point.

Rumor is Sony is looking to possibly buy Crytek.

I hope so! That'd be fantastic! Maybe we could see Mantle take off even better and possibly implemented with consoles. It would also mean a better graphics engine that is less expensive on hardware.

I also noticed a couple pages back, someone mentioned the Ken Ham/Bill Nuys debate... It made me laugh because that was childish. I've seen 4 year olds with better arguments. Ken Ham's model is quite a bit off, and this is coming from a creationist.

@8350rocks, I like your set up I'm so jelly right now. Haha! Are you still on 1080P? R9 290X seems overkill for that res.

I'm really waiting out other upgrades here. I'm hoping Mantle picks up support on green team. I really want to pick up an 880. Less power consumption and similar performance to a 780 at a cheaper price. I'm probably going to end up with another AMD GPU though, Simply because I'm a starwars fanboy, and SWBF3 sounds really fun @1440P 96Fps on Mantle. I'll probably pick up an i7 5820K next year too, depending on if AMD chooses to make a move. I'm really excited to see what DDR4 will do for Gaming.

Any one found word on the performance numbers for Witcher 3? I want to make sure I'm ready for it!

 

[de5_Roy]

tango super pc uses amd apu
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tiny/tango-super-pc-a-desktop-windows-pc-in-cell-phone
imo, looks like a variation of asus' padfone concept.

 

[gamerk316]

Any one found word on the performance numbers for Witcher 3? I want to make sure I'm ready for it!

The only thing I've heard on it is the devs claiming they basically maxed out this console generation. And given the content we've seen, I tend to believe them. Those guys know their stuff.

 

[jdwii]

Nice GTA5 is going to use Mantle that will show some nice gains its weird to see anything Amd on rockstar games since they are usually pro Intel+Nvidia

At this point Amd has more people using Mantle the first year then Microsoft's directx 11 during its first year. Kinda wish i did go for that 280x now even if it does use 30% more power(my 650 watt antec is getting a little old)

 

[etayorius]

Nice GTA5 is going to use Mantle that will show some nice gains its weird to see anything Amd on rockstar games since they are usually pro Intel+Nvidia

At this point Amd has more people using Mantle the first year then Microsoft's directx 11 during its first year. Kinda wish i did go for that 280x now even if it does use 30% more power(my 650 watt antec is getting a little old)

I heard this rumor too back in Feb and even told about it on this thread several pages back, but if they use MANTLE i can see why... huge open world with tons of AI and if you read the Steam page for GTAV it says "Improved AI and Enhanced Graphics".

Still a rumor though, if GTAV uses MANTLE it will basically be a huge win for AMD and may make other devs support it.

Edit:

http://videocardz.com/51018/exclusive-upcoming-games-support-mantle

Guess the rumors may be right... this is HUGE for MANTLE and AMD.

 

[jdwii]

Nice GTA5 is going to use Mantle that will show some nice gains its weird to see anything Amd on rockstar games since they are usually pro Intel+Nvidia

At this point Amd has more people using Mantle the first year then Microsoft's directx 11 during its first year. Kinda wish i did go for that 280x now even if it does use 30% more power(my 650 watt antec is getting a little old)

I heard this rumor too back in Feb and even told about it on this thread several pages back, but if they use MANTLE they i can see why... huge open world with tons of AI and if you read the Steam page for GTAV it says "Improved AI and Enhanced Graphics".

Still a rumor though, if GTAV uses MANTLE it will basically be a huge win for AMD and may make other devs support it.

Edit:

http://videocardz.com/51018/exclusive-upcoming-games-support-mantle

Guess the rumors may be right... this is HUGE for MANTLE and AMD.

To be honest even Sim4 is a great win since that game always use 1 of my cores at 70+%.

 

[etayorius]

Nice GTA5 is going to use Mantle that will show some nice gains its weird to see anything Amd on rockstar games since they are usually pro Intel+Nvidia

At this point Amd has more people using Mantle the first year then Microsoft's directx 11 during its first year. Kinda wish i did go for that 280x now even if it does use 30% more power(my 650 watt antec is getting a little old)

I heard this rumor too back in Feb and even told about it on this thread several pages back, but if they use MANTLE they i can see why... huge open world with tons of AI and if you read the Steam page for GTAV it says "Improved AI and Enhanced Graphics".

Still a rumor though, if GTAV uses MANTLE it will basically be a huge win for AMD and may make other devs support it.

Edit:

http://videocardz.com/51018/exclusive-upcoming-games-support-mantle

Guess the rumors may be right... this is HUGE for MANTLE and AMD.

To be honest even Sim4 is a great win since that game always use 1 of my cores at 70+%.

Dang... starting to feel the need to get a Radeon, i was planning on waiting for the 300 series to get a Radeon, possibly the R9 370X or what ever they call it but i think i may just grab a 280X, just for the sake of GTAV on PC, i preordered the game.

Can you imagine? 64 Bit exe and MANTLE = Superb Performance!

 

[jdwii]

Nice GTA5 is going to use Mantle that will show some nice gains its weird to see anything Amd on rockstar games since they are usually pro Intel+Nvidia

At this point Amd has more people using Mantle the first year then Microsoft's directx 11 during its first year. Kinda wish i did go for that 280x now even if it does use 30% more power(my 650 watt antec is getting a little old)

I heard this rumor too back in Feb and even told about it on this thread several pages back, but if they use MANTLE they i can see why... huge open world with tons of AI and if you read the Steam page for GTAV it says "Improved AI and Enhanced Graphics".

Still a rumor though, if GTAV uses MANTLE it will basically be a huge win for AMD and may make other devs support it.

Edit:

http://videocardz.com/51018/exclusive-upcoming-games-support-mantle

Guess the rumors may be right... this is HUGE for MANTLE and AMD.

To be honest even Sim4 is a great win since that game always use 1 of my cores at 70+%.

Dang... starting to feel the need to get a Radeon, i was planning on waiting for the 300 series to get a Radeon, possibly the R9 370X or what ever they call it but i think i may just grab a 280X, just for the sake of GTAV on PC, i preordered the game.

Can you imagine? 64 Bit exe and MANTLE = Superb Performance!

You still own a Phenom II x4+470Gtx. To be honest i would probably upgrade to a 8350fx you should see a decent improvement i saw a 10-20% improvement in older games something i never thought would happen and in newer games that improvement was much more such as Simcity. Then again your 470

Spoiler

is around half the power of a 7970ghz edition(280X). With Mantle and directx 12 your CPU will become less of a bottleneck

 

[Cazalan]

tango super pc uses amd apu
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tiny/tango-super-pc-a-desktop-windows-pc-in-cell-phone
imo, looks like a variation of asus' padfone concept.

There must be a lot of idiots on Kickstarter.

$349 for a PC without an OS/monitor/keyboard/mouse and you get a tiny 32GB SSD ($39).


This would actually game better and no need for a docking station. It's a little bigger but still.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164009

 

[gamerk316]

Nice GTA5 is going to use Mantle that will show some nice gains its weird to see anything Amd on rockstar games since they are usually pro Intel+Nvidia

At this point Amd has more people using Mantle the first year then Microsoft's directx 11 during its first year. Kinda wish i did go for that 280x now even if it does use 30% more power(my 650 watt antec is getting a little old)

I heard this rumor too back in Feb and even told about it on this thread several pages back, but if they use MANTLE they i can see why... huge open world with tons of AI and if you read the Steam page for GTAV it says "Improved AI and Enhanced Graphics".

Still a rumor though, if GTAV uses MANTLE it will basically be a huge win for AMD and may make other devs support it.

Edit:

http://videocardz.com/51018/exclusive-upcoming-games-support-mantle

Guess the rumors may be right... this is HUGE for MANTLE and AMD.

To be honest even Sim4 is a great win since that game always use 1 of my cores at 70+%.

Dang... starting to feel the need to get a Radeon, i was planning on waiting for the 300 series to get a Radeon, possibly the R9 370X or what ever they call it but i think i may just grab a 280X, just for the sake of GTAV on PC, i preordered the game.

Can you imagine? 64 Bit exe and MANTLE = Superb Performance!

64 bit by itself doesn't add a lot to performance; you gain the benefit of the extra 64-bit registers, but that's about it. The ability to use more RAM is good for doing more, but by itself won't affect performance. And as we've already observed, high end rigs don't benefit from Mantle much at all.

 

[etayorius]

Nice GTA5 is going to use Mantle that will show some nice gains its weird to see anything Amd on rockstar games since they are usually pro Intel+Nvidia

At this point Amd has more people using Mantle the first year then Microsoft's directx 11 during its first year. Kinda wish i did go for that 280x now even if it does use 30% more power(my 650 watt antec is getting a little old)

I heard this rumor too back in Feb and even told about it on this thread several pages back, but if they use MANTLE they i can see why... huge open world with tons of AI and if you read the Steam page for GTAV it says "Improved AI and Enhanced Graphics".

Still a rumor though, if GTAV uses MANTLE it will basically be a huge win for AMD and may make other devs support it.

Edit:

http://videocardz.com/51018/exclusive-upcoming-games-support-mantle

Guess the rumors may be right... this is HUGE for MANTLE and AMD.

To be honest even Sim4 is a great win since that game always use 1 of my cores at 70+%.

Dang... starting to feel the need to get a Radeon, i was planning on waiting for the 300 series to get a Radeon, possibly the R9 370X or what ever they call it but i think i may just grab a 280X, just for the sake of GTAV on PC, i preordered the game.

Can you imagine? 64 Bit exe and MANTLE = Superb Performance!

64 bit by itself doesn't add a lot to performance; you gain the benefit of the extra 64-bit registers, but that's about it. The ability to use more RAM is good for doing more, but by itself won't affect performance. And as we've already observed, high end rigs don't benefit from Mantle much at all.

With more Ram into de 64bit exe it means much more HD Textures mods, taking into account the GPU has a ton of it[s own Ram, but 64 bit is a sweet thing in future games.

 

[griptwister]

tango super pc uses amd apu
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tiny/tango-super-pc-a-desktop-windows-pc-in-cell-phone
imo, looks like a variation of asus' padfone concept.

There must be a lot of idiots on Kickstarter.

$349 for a PC without an OS/monitor/keyboard/mouse and you get a tiny 32GB SSD ($39).


This would actually game better and no need for a docking station. It's a little bigger but still.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164009

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad

 

[jdwii]

tango super pc uses amd apu
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tiny/tango-super-pc-a-desktop-windows-pc-in-cell-phone
imo, looks like a variation of asus' padfone concept.

There must be a lot of idiots on Kickstarter.

$349 for a PC without an OS/monitor/keyboard/mouse and you get a tiny 32GB SSD ($39).


This would actually game better and no need for a docking station. It's a little bigger but still.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164009

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad

 

[colinp]

I can basically guarantee Mantel is almost never going to get used.

 

[Fidgetmaster]

With HT on cause's all kind of damn Hitching/stutter/Micro-freeze man, It doesn't do it all the time...its just very intermittent in BF4....with fps really not too much difference with it on or off a little, maybe slightly smoother/stable....I can OC a lot higher with it off though Obviously and runs a hell of a lot cooler as well....

 

[Fidgetmaster]

They need to actually fix Mantle so it actually works right for the 270 cards....mantle is joke trying to run on them...

 

[jdwii]

With HT on cause's all kind of damn Hitching/stutter/Micro-freeze man, It doesn't do it all the time...its just very intermittent in BF4....with fps really not too much difference with it on or off a little, maybe slightly smoother/stable....I can OC a lot higher with it off though Obviously and runs a hell of a lot cooler as well....

I looked very well into your I7 920(god of CPU's back then its like the Reagan for republications) If you OC that thing to 3.8Ghz that will really be a nice gaming CPU even for today.

Spoiler

Wish i had the money back then for that CPU when it came out its almost 6 years old now and still kicking it. Hoping my 8350fx will do the same

Edit i benchmarked my system right and left with AIDI64 seems like in every test its around the I7 965 level including the FPU ones the hashing one is crazy high and some are around the I7 3770K level. Kinda impressed.

 

[Fidgetmaster]

definitely still decent, it does turn into a monster OCed....My DO Chip must of just been an average one though or something...so many others saying they were getting way higher Overclocks at lower voltage....mine just doesn't under-volt and be stable as well as others...

 

[jdwii]

Yeah i know people with 4.0Ghz with water should probably try that could always use that water cooling kit for a future build

 

[Fidgetmaster]

Yeah I need a water unit would be nice to be stable at 4.0ghz or a little more...

 

[gamerk316]

At this point Amd has more people using Mantle the first year then Microsoft's directx 11 during its first year. Kinda wish i did go for that 280x now even if it does use 30% more power(my 650 watt antec is getting a little old)

To be fair, the OS market share likely has a lot to do with that. DX adoption always starts off slow.

 

[juanrga]

@juan:

PPW at similar TDP is the goal (meaning, yes, outright performance).

Also, I would like to point out, you could not possibly know anything about next gen x86, because it is unannounced as of yet, and I am not permitted to speak about it. Sure K12 is announced, however project name for next gen x86 is not skybridge and no details have yet been announced. They are playing that much closer to the chest...for a reason.

The new AMD core will not outperform Skylake core in performance. The goal is to outperform Skylake core in efficiency, which is the important metric.

We know that K12 is the ARM core. I said this dozen of times. We know that the name of the sister x86 core is not still decided. I also said this dozen of times. Stop repeating to me stuff I said before.

Some details of the new AMD arch:

# the new cores abandon CMT and will use SMT.
# the new cores will be small (Puma-like style), emphasizing efficiency rather than raw performance [1]
# 14nm FinFET process, (16FF+ as backup option)
# Frequency up to 4GHz (on 14FF)
# lots of improvements in cache subsystem, including a novel stack cache element developed by Keller [2]
# up to 16 cores on die
# modular L2/L3 caches. L3 optional
# modular SIMD unit
# DDR4 support as standard
# HBM on-package as option
# LGA package


NOTES:

[1] Someone said that next gen FX CPUs will have 8/12/16 cores. This seems to show that AMD will be competing against 4/6/8 core Skylake using "moar cores".

[2] I asked to someone if the advantages over a traditional cache are (i) reduction of cache misses because the data is preloaded in advance to its use and (ii) latency reduction because the data needed at a given instant of the flow is already placed at stack N instead having to be loaded from different cache localizations. And if the disadvantages would be higher complexity to implement it and maybe latency penalty if data is preloaded in incorrect order. THe answer I received was "Yes, you are right".

I can basically guarantee Mantel is almost never going to get used.

To be fair he was right. We don't know any game using "mantel", only lots of games using MANTLE

 

[blackkstar]

Interestingly enough, there are games coming out with native 64bits executables (haven't seen if the libs are full 64bit though).

In the coming year (2014 -> 2015) I'm sure we'll see more games chugging more resources (I hope), since we already have some that actually do.

I gave a link to one that got my attention a while ago called "Planetary Annihilation". Also, we have "Star Citizen" and some other big games announced to be native 64bits (can't remember more though).

And iron8orn, read carefully every post in here instead of dismissing them easily (specially palladins', gamerks', 8350rocks' and juans'), since they usually contain a lot of good information to think about. That attitude only destroys good conversation and doesn't add anything meaningful to it; in other words: "if you don't have anything nice to say, then stay quiet".

Cheers!

I don't know about Windows, but Unreal is targeting exclusively 64bit for linux

https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Linux_Demos

Windows is always behind Linux in this sort of stuff, usually by a huge margin. You really, really have to go out of your way to use 32-bit applications in Linux and to have a fully 32-bit system.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Linux versions ship with 64-bit, SSE4 enabled executables while Windows gets 32-bit SSE1 executables.

Everyone loves to bash on GCC and then they act dumbfounded when GCC + GNU + Linux blows Windows away on the same hardware.

I used to think it was just compilers picking on AMD hardware. So I ran Blender on Gentoo and windows on my i7 920 and saw ridiculous gains as well. Blender Windows is compiled with MSVC too. There's something really wrong with the tools Blender Foundation is using to compile Blender for Windows and I wonder how many other developers are using the same tool chain and producing horrendous machine code.

When Linux gaming takes off, there's going to be a lot of people who are resilient to change spreading FUD out of fear of change.

It's going to be better for everyone. AMD wants to make changes to the Linux compiler, they just submit their changes. Nvidia, AMD, and Intel want updates to DirectX 11 and they don't show up until AMD releases Mantle. It's not difficult to see why Windows is harming consumers wallets and forcing them to upgrade hardware for artificially crippled software.

When people wake up and realize that installing Linux is a bigger upgrade to their rigs than making the jump from Nehalem to Haswell, they're gonna either switch or get really, really angry and defend the fact that they're afraid of switching OSes.

Compilers emits similar code on different OSes, just in different packages.
Usually differences in performance lies in OSes itself (how they manage resources etc.). Also porting libraries on different platforms can affect peformance (for example if programmer did crappy version of code for Windows and proper for Unix). What Blender uses for GUI? GTK?

Everyone loves to bash on GCC and then they act dumbfounded when GCC + GNU + Linux blows Windows away on the same hardware.

The last time I saw an in-depth performance comparison between GCC and MSVC, MSVC was found to be 12% faster on average. I'll see if I can gravedig the link.

Also note, that same comparison showed the Intel compiler was 30% faster then MSVC.

GCC, frankly, sucks. I'm glad LLVM/Clang is going to finally kill it off. Linux has needed a decent development platform in the worst possible way; how people live with GCC is beyond me.

With HT on cause's all kind of damn Hitching/stutter/Micro-freeze man, It doesn't do it all the time...its just very intermittent in BF4....with fps really not too much difference with it on or off a little, maybe slightly smoother/stable....I can OC a lot higher with it off though Obviously and runs a hell of a lot cooler as well....

I have a C0 i7 920 and I agree. HT did improve with SB but on Nehalem it is bad. It is only worthwhile if you're doing something where you need to use all those cores.

It holds up well. Right now I have it set up with a 6950 and it's running Gentoo and functioning as my HTPC since it's hooked up to my 50in plasma.

It holds up well compared to my FX 8350. It wasn't a staggering upgrade like the last few ones I did but it's still plenty viable today.

It's too bad we stopped moving like we did in the 00s. Vista came out and we finally got a decent looking interface and all these nice features like background caching in RAM and everyone blew up and went "wow Vista is bloated trash!" as they tried to run Vista on their old hardware. Normally, people would go "it's time to upgrade, my PC isn't so hot at running the new Windows"

And then after that it all went downhill. Microsoft stopped giving us reasons to upgrade our PC. And it all came to a peak in Windows 8 when Micrtosoft basically ignored HEDT entirely. And then people stopped buying buying new PCs because they had no reason to. And then OEMs stopped making PCs and making planned obsolescence devices like tablets.

I've been using Windows since Windows 95 and it seemed like every (major) release gave you a reason to upgrade your computer. And now it seems like that's gone. And it's put HEDT market in a very bad spot.

And the new consoles don't seem to be doing HEDT any favors either. They are holding things back.

 

[Cazalan]

It's too bad we stopped moving like we did in the 00s. Vista came out and we finally got a decent looking interface and all these nice features like background caching in RAM and everyone blew up and went "wow Vista is bloated trash!" as they tried to run Vista on their old hardware. Normally, people would go "it's time to upgrade, my PC isn't so hot at running the new Windows"

I was bored one day an installed Win 8.1 32bit on a really old P4 machine. It actually runs quite well and all the hardware was detected correctly. I'm sure Vista would have killed it.

 

[palladin9479]

It's too bad we stopped moving like we did in the 00s. Vista came out and we finally got a decent looking interface and all these nice features like background caching in RAM and everyone blew up and went "wow Vista is bloated trash!" as they tried to run Vista on their old hardware. Normally, people would go "it's time to upgrade, my PC isn't so hot at running the new Windows"

Vista was trash and it had nothing to do with hardware. Superfetch didn't work well with the NT VMM and OS level disk cacheing and you ended up in bizarre memory scenarios. Superfetch would attempt to utilize all memory not immediately in use, meaning it would run your free page pool to zero and keep it there. Programs are constantly being dynamically grown / shrunk depending on their memory requests, with zero free pages the NT VMM would start paging to swap to meet the immediate needs of programs with memory requests. Eventually superfetch would notice this behavior and try to relinquish pages but it was too late as the paging had already commenced.

I've seen this with my own two eyeballs on a box running with 8GB of memory. "Moar memory!!" didn't fix the problem, it only made it take longer for superfetch to eat your entire free page pool. MS fixed this problem with Windows 7 by tightening up the timing on who quick superfetch responds to memory allocation (it's reactive by nature so there is always going to be a delay) and also making it not attempt to run your free page pool to zero. You can see this yourself by checking your free page pool, in Vista it be run to zero and then kept there where as on Seven there will always be a small amount left available to handle any immediate memory requests which in turn gives superfetch time to respond and release more pages into the free memory pool.

The singular feature in vista was one of those "great concept, poor execution". You can contrast it to the L2ARC on ZFS which does the same thing, attempt to utilize all available memory for disk caching. The L2ARC is proactive and is constantly asking the OS if it needs more free pages, if it sees the free page pool get too small the L2ARC will start to release more pages to prevent that same above scenario. At least this is how it acts on Solaris, not sure about the BSD and Linux implementation.