AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[Cazalan]

well i believe we have hundreds of thousands of moba players would like to disagree (and probably millions in china alone).. AMD missed the boat with LoL and Dota. their APUs have a monopoly for MOBA capable notebooks (which they are not aware for some reason) and you don't see 1 marketing push from them stating this. imagine if they actually partnered with Riot or Valve both in marketing and R&D. we could've seen HSA enabled source2 (source2 is out for dota2 by the way) or "source2 powered by Mantle ™" (patent pending). or at least offer "rares" & "legendaries" when you buy an AMD apu.

they gave up on the market where they can actually fight intel, shame that their marketing monkeys can't use their phd's to good use.

Can't do stuff like that. It makes too much sense.

There probably will be something like that when the Steamboxes launch next year.

 

[noob2222]

The pc market is in decline because there is nothing to buy. If something was to be put on the market thats 20% faster than what is available, I can guarantee that people would have a reason to buy it.

 

[logainofhades]

Trusting a youtube video to compare CPU's? :lol:

 

[jdwii]

I think its just spam(from a troll) i have to much faith in humanity to think otherwise.

 

[juanrga]

And finally I want to mention that some of us knew of the existence of Zen since MAY, concretely the day 8.

It's been floating around longer than that. March

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=36194114

That link is about the Basilisk APU, which is mentioned in some linkedin profiles.

I did mean that AMD announced codename Zen to some few so early as the past May month. Read has announced Zen to general public now.

 

[juanrga]

During the conference Rory Read mentioned servers, notebooks, tablets, phones... and even medical equipment and casino machines, but didn't mention HEDT. I am not surprised.

 

[-Fran-]

Leave politics out of the thread, please. Nothing good comes out of that.

Cheers!

 

[h2323]

During the conference Rory Read mentioned servers, notebooks, tablets, phones... and even medical equipment and casino machines, but didn't mention HEDT. I am not surprised.

Tablets, phones? he said AMD will not swim against the current and go for those low margin highly competitive areas (tablets, phones). The absence of him saying anything about zen really except it's name and node means nothing. He did talk about high margins in that space though (cutting edge processes), which depending on how you take it might be a nod to large, powerful, and expensive zen chips.

 

[h2323]

And finally I want to mention that some of us knew of the existence of Zen since MAY, concretely the day 8.

"AMD want to the a leader in ARM architecture, not in x86. Of course, Rory knows that Zen will not be faster than Skylake."


He never said that, he never implied that, there is no evidence for this, on the skylake or zen side. I understand that this is your stance but that is all it is, your opinion. It is clear that even if Zen was very fast AMD would not be the x86 leader, they have lost way to much market. I recognize your opinion but everything skylake and zen available does not support your theory, it's truly anyone's guess, sklylake and zen.

 

[jdwii]

^^^ If Amd can make Arm more powerful then Intel's X86 products that would really say a lot about how inefficient X86 is not knocking Amd but if they can do it think what others can do with a bigger budget. If Amd keeps scaling down their big X86 core it wouldn't surprise me if their Arm core beat their X86 core that doesn't prove Arm is good or anything just shows what Amd cares about more.

As long as Windows holds dominance on Desktops and Laptops i don't see Arm gaining much in that market and besides google's OS i doubt i seen much different in the last 3 years. Steam OS still is nothing worth talking about. Then we have consumers whole want to use their old software and games(SO MANY) businesses still use software that can only work on XP.
Amd already stated they don't care to compete in lower-end markets such as phones and tablets they say it over and over again yet others claim different sometimes i think people are delusional.

 

[juanrga]

During the conference Rory Read mentioned servers, notebooks, tablets, phones... and even medical equipment and casino machines, but didn't mention HEDT. I am not surprised.

Tablets, phones? he said AMD will not swim against the current and go for those low margin highly competitive areas (tablets, phones). The absence of him saying anything about zen really except it's name and node means nothing. He did talk about high margins in that space though (cutting edge processes), which depending on how you take it might be a nod to large, powerful, and expensive zen chips.

Which is your point?

AMD want to the a leader in ARM architecture, not in x86. Of course, Rory knows that Zen will not be faster than Skylake.

He never said that, he never implied that, there is no evidence for this, on the skylake or zen side. I understand that this is your stance but that is all it is, your opinion. It is clear that even if Zen was very fast AMD would not be the x86 leader, they have lost way to much market. I recognize your opinion but everything skylake and zen available does not support your theory, it's truly anyone's guess, sklylake and zen.

Never said what? Never implied what? there is no evidence for what?

 

[8350rocks]

Just FYI, Intel announced yesterday that they have been working with google to resolve all issues with running android on x86 hardware.

They also announced 4 new design wins in the ULP/portable market with Android OS and support for 2 years for Android software updates.

(i.e. the last major hurdle Intel had preventing it from competing directly with ARM has been jumped, mark my words, x86 will show up more and more in a segment where ARM has dominated. Cross platform features will be much easier to do/use/sync)

EDIT: Much like PPC back in the 90s, x86 is the little engine that could, and ARM will not kill it off...in fact, it seems the fight is coming to ARM's home court. The future of ARM just got a bit dimmer.

 

[cdrkf]

Just FYI, Intel announced yesterday that they have been working with google to resolve all issues with running android on x86 hardware.

They also announced 4 new design wins in the ULP/portable market with Android OS and support for 2 years for Android software updates.

(i.e. the last major hurdle Intel had preventing it from competing directly with ARM has been jumped, mark my words, x86 will show up more and more in a segment where ARM has dominated. Cross platform features will be much easier to do/use/sync)

EDIT: Much like PPC back in the 90s, x86 is the little engine that could, and ARM will not kill it off...in fact, it seems the fight is coming to ARM's home court. The future of ARM just got a bit dimmer.

I wouldn't count out ARM just yet If anything this just spices things up a bit...

 

[juanrga]

And some weeks before an emulator that allows ARM hardware to run x86 software was presented opening the opportunity to run legacy software on modern hardware.

A final comment: since a decade ago I hear at least once per year how Intel is going to kill ARM finally... it never happens.

 

[h2323]

During the conference Rory Read mentioned servers, notebooks, tablets, phones... and even medical equipment and casino machines, but didn't mention HEDT. I am not surprised.

Tablets, phones? he said AMD will not swim against the current and go for those low margin highly competitive areas (tablets, phones). The absence of him saying anything about zen really except it's name and node means nothing. He did talk about high margins in that space though (cutting edge processes), which depending on how you take it might be a nod to large, powerful, and expensive zen chips.

Which is your point?

AMD want to the a leader in ARM architecture, not in x86. Of course, Rory knows that Zen will not be faster than Skylake.

He never said that, he never implied that, there is no evidence for this, on the skylake or zen side. I understand that this is your stance but that is all it is, your opinion. It is clear that even if Zen was very fast AMD would not be the x86 leader, they have lost way to much market. I recognize your opinion but everything skylake and zen available does not support your theory, it's truly anyone's guess, sklylake and zen.

Never said what? Never implied what? there is no evidence for what?

You are clearly implying that Zen will not be a high-end desktop part (that is yet to be seen), by taking what Rory Read said out of context to support your point (you have a theory of what Zen will be, stated here and on semi many times based on little to zero information).
Yes he did bring up Tablets and Phones, implying that they will not enter that market any time soon.

Rory Read

"Of course, I think mobility you can get there through semi-custom. But for us to continue to win in that space that march on the low power curve is key. Mark Papermaster did a talk about how we're going to lower our power 25 times over the next x years and that is all going to position us better for that space. But in the mean time, don't go after bad business. If it makes sense, we want that business, but we're not in a position where we could wrap $10 bills around it or if someone is doing $20, God bless them, but I can't -- I'm not going there. It doesn’t make sense"

But nothing in his statements about cutting edge parts Zen/K12 implies that they will not do high end desktop. All he said regarding that is that the margins have to great to cover the yield costs.

Rory Read

"Now, will we move down to Fins? Yes, absolutely, and our next generation products go there and as we introduce them in 16. But we want to do that as you’re catching the cost curve and the yield curve at the right place so that it makes sense for us."

"If, from my perspective you’re running a balanced business on that space. So, I like how Mark Papermaster, Lisa, Keller, those guys are all looking at it, and there is a whole set of people that are really doing the work to say when does the cost curve come over, where do I want to match that into the roadmap,"

"We’ll do test chips and do early parts, but we’re not going to move volume until it’s ready to produce the right kind of return, because that whole Moore’s law is kind of flattening out. You saw it from 28 to 16, 14. That was a very different curve in terms of the benefit, the shrink, and the cost. And it was out of whack at least for the first 24 months and that’s unusual. And so, we are going to be very thoughtful about how we attack that. But make no mistake, we will continue to move down the curve, and we’ll continue to leverage it in the products where it makes sense."

"So, industrial, medical, casino gaming, thin clients, home, gaming, those are all interesting spaces, and big volume places I mentioned, mobility, that could be an area or server where we could partner with the player and really create a deep relationship."

"I could swim backwards on mobility and try and go into cell phones when the margins are going down and the competition is tough or we can try and look out and say where are the opportunities? And Lisa and her team are identifying. That's how we transformed AMD; better efficiency, better model, look to the future."


"ARM architectural leadership; x86 architecture; big leap forward, and we do it in a package where we've had very good conversation with the OEMs in the server space and with the customers, and we tested it because if we didn't see that acceptance, we would have ended the business a year ago."


"Now, will we move down to Fins? Yes, absolutely, and our next generation products go there and as we introduce them in 16. But we want to do that as you’re catching the cost curve and the yield curve at the right place so that it makes sense for us."


There is virtually 0 information on Zen, just peoples opinions on what Keller implied at the core conference. This discussion with Rory Read does not limit the application of Zen in any way shape or form. As he said, Lisa, Papermaster and Keller are looking at what spaces Zen will be applied and that could very well be HEDT. We have no clue.

There is really no reason Zen could not be a huge leap forward. It is all new, it will not be restricted by bulldozer or K10/10h in anyway. Limiting it to Haswell performance also makes little sense, because there is no real information, it could be faster, it could be slower. There is no reason why a new architecture from a different team then previous arc at 14/16nm could not greatly overtake AMD's previous architecture, we'll see.

(I personally think AMD is done with dedicated CPU's, but there is no credible information at all regarding Zen.)

 

[juanrga]

I mentioned time ago that AMD was transforming itself into a SoC company. Post-Excavator product that appears in current AMD roadmaps is no longer a x86 CPU: it is a SoC.

 

[jdwii]

http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/09/12/there-are-711-million-pc-gamers-in-the-world-today-says-intel/

“We're really focused around PC gaming and enthusiasts. This is the one area of PCs that has kept growing,” Intel's Lisa Graff told me at the show. “These are out most loyal customers: PC gamers. They want as much performance as we can throw at them. We're going to bring Intel's best technologies to bear for PC gaming.”
Intel does what Amd doesn't. Amd can continue to claim otherwise but they are doing it outside of reality

 

[de5_Roy]

Grand Theft Auto 5 Gets A Release Date
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/gaming-grand-theft-auto-2015-online-january,27664.html

 

[juanrga]

Spoiler

During the conference Rory Read mentioned servers, notebooks, tablets, phones... and even medical equipment and casino machines, but didn't mention HEDT. I am not surprised.

Tablets, phones? he said AMD will not swim against the current and go for those low margin highly competitive areas (tablets, phones). The absence of him saying anything about zen really except it's name and node means nothing. He did talk about high margins in that space though (cutting edge processes), which depending on how you take it might be a nod to large, powerful, and expensive zen chips.

Which is your point?

AMD want to the a leader in ARM architecture, not in x86. Of course, Rory knows that Zen will not be faster than Skylake.

He never said that, he never implied that, there is no evidence for this, on the skylake or zen side. I understand that this is your stance but that is all it is, your opinion. It is clear that even if Zen was very fast AMD would not be the x86 leader, they have lost way to much market. I recognize your opinion but everything skylake and zen available does not support your theory, it's truly anyone's guess, sklylake and zen.

Never said what? Never implied what? there is no evidence for what?

You are clearly implying that Zen will not be a high-end desktop part (that is yet to be seen), by taking what Rory Read said out of context to support your point (you have a theory of what Zen will be, stated here and on semi many times based on little to zero information).

Sorry, but you have completely misunderstood what I said.

Zen SoC belongs to the "high-performance x86" slot in the roadmap I posted some pages ago and, evidently, high-performance SoCs can be used in high-end desktops. What we said (both Rory and me) is something completely different. It was about leadership and goals.

 

[etayorius]

Grand Theft Auto 5 Gets A Release Date
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/gaming-grand-theft-auto-2015-online-january,27664.html

Just cancelled my preorder, i kinda don`t care anymore... i don`t want a game who is more than a year old sold as a New AAA Title for 60 USD, i am instead supporting Witcher 3.

The way Rockstar announced the release i feelt it basically spit on PC community, i received Rockstar propaganda on my Email, i saw the "new" trailer who promises new Features on Xbone and PS4, then goes off to show to show few stuff in game and then it gives a Nov 14 Release date for Consoles, and finally as last drop of mockery they give out this message...

"Coming too for PC" -SERIOUSLY?!

As if they were making fun of PC Gamers all together, then in PCGamer i saw a January 27 date for PC, and most of them PC Gamers starts applauding them like seals... well not this time Rockstar, you just gave out the last slap to me... i am buying for sure, but when ever it hits 5 bucks, no sooner than that.

I seriously lost interest, maybe if they would had announced the game back in June for a PC Release of January 27 i would not had an issue, first Rockstar receives a ton of cash from Sony and MS to delay it, then they announce new Release for all platforms just as "Fall 2014", then they probably received another WAD of money again from MS (I BET) to further delay it on PC, and finally they just mock US ALL.

I see no reason to delay PC, i thought porting from Xbone and PS4 to PC was quite Fast and EASY due to the x86 arch... did we not saw MS show off many Xbone Games on PC with Intel CPUs and a Titan a while back?

I hope more people would just not preorder and not give Rockstar more reasons to keep slapping PC, this started out with GTA4 and Red Dead Redemption, it follows with GTA5 and has been a very successful move for them, people are just too dumb to follow their ways, just wait till the game is sold for less than $20 and if they decide to drop PC from ever then so be it.

 

[8350rocks]

Spoiler

During the conference Rory Read mentioned servers, notebooks, tablets, phones... and even medical equipment and casino machines, but didn't mention HEDT. I am not surprised.

Tablets, phones? he said AMD will not swim against the current and go for those low margin highly competitive areas (tablets, phones). The absence of him saying anything about zen really except it's name and node means nothing. He did talk about high margins in that space though (cutting edge processes), which depending on how you take it might be a nod to large, powerful, and expensive zen chips.

Which is your point?

AMD want to the a leader in ARM architecture, not in x86. Of course, Rory knows that Zen will not be faster than Skylake.

He never said that, he never implied that, there is no evidence for this, on the skylake or zen side. I understand that this is your stance but that is all it is, your opinion. It is clear that even if Zen was very fast AMD would not be the x86 leader, they have lost way to much market. I recognize your opinion but everything skylake and zen available does not support your theory, it's truly anyone's guess, sklylake and zen.

Never said what? Never implied what? there is no evidence for what?

You are clearly implying that Zen will not be a high-end desktop part (that is yet to be seen), by taking what Rory Read said out of context to support your point (you have a theory of what Zen will be, stated here and on semi many times based on little to zero information).

Sorry, but you have completely misunderstood what I said.

Zen SoC belongs to the "high-performance x86" slot in the roadmap I posted some pages ago and, evidently, high-performance SoCs can be used in high-end desktops. What we said (both Rory and me) is something completely different. It was about leadership and goals.

I have word about Zen being some APUs and some dCPUs on a unified platform. I have known that for quite some time...let us just say...you are missing the mark with speculation beyond the target market for Zen occupying HEDT.

 

[de5_Roy]

I have word about Zen being some APUs and some dCPUs on a unified platform. I have known that for quite some time...let us just say...you are missing the mark with speculation beyond the target market for Zen occupying HEDT.

i hope that little tidbit wasn't under nda.
what's next, exc-apus having two mobile dies, one for ulv and one for mainstream laptops and desktops?

 

[jdwii]

I agree about GTA5 for the PC i played it this week for the first time on the 360 and i never hurt my eyes this much before it was so choppy and the pop in was so bad i can't even understand how it was made as a stable copy, i remember driving fast in the city and it felt like it was playing at 18FPS i did beat 20% of it and i loved the game gameplay wise and story-wise.

Its been 1 year and soon will be 1 year and 5 months when it does release and others expect people to not torrent it over anger or wait until its 5$. Knowing me i'll probably wait until its on sale for 30$.

For now i'm playing Watch dogs for the 4th try(got a free copy when i bought my 770), i have to say the game is still skipping when driving but its better(only playing at high textures to). The graphics in the game are still horrible and reminds me of godfather 2 the game at times, It needs Mantle+Directx 12 badly even on the I7 i can only hope GTA5 play's good on my 8350.

 

[h2323]

Spoiler

During the conference Rory Read mentioned servers, notebooks, tablets, phones... and even medical equipment and casino machines, but didn't mention HEDT. I am not surprised.

Tablets, phones? he said AMD will not swim against the current and go for those low margin highly competitive areas (tablets, phones). The absence of him saying anything about zen really except it's name and node means nothing. He did talk about high margins in that space though (cutting edge processes), which depending on how you take it might be a nod to large, powerful, and expensive zen chips.

Which is your point?

AMD want to the a leader in ARM architecture, not in x86. Of course, Rory knows that Zen will not be faster than Skylake.

He never said that, he never implied that, there is no evidence for this, on the skylake or zen side. I understand that this is your stance but that is all it is, your opinion. It is clear that even if Zen was very fast AMD would not be the x86 leader, they have lost way to much market. I recognize your opinion but everything skylake and zen available does not support your theory, it's truly anyone's guess, sklylake and zen.

Never said what? Never implied what? there is no evidence for what?

You are clearly implying that Zen will not be a high-end desktop part (that is yet to be seen), by taking what Rory Read said out of context to support your point (you have a theory of what Zen will be, stated here and on semi many times based on little to zero information).

Sorry, but you have completely misunderstood what I said.

Zen SoC belongs to the "high-performance x86" slot in the roadmap I posted some pages ago and, evidently, high-performance SoCs can be used in high-end desktops. What we said (both Rory and me) is something completely different. It was about leadership and goals.

You and Rory....there is no AMD roadmap for Zen, what Rory says is based on internal knowledge of the program, what you say is based on the extremely limited information the public has with your subjective interpretation of it. Answers to come, nothing really known as of now other then it's x86, 2016, and on 14/16nm, 2015 will be a long year.

I don't see a link to your roadmap in the last few pages.

(appreciate your effort in making a good guess, but there is really nothing solid as of now)

 

[esrever]

There already are firepro APUs