AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

[Reynod]

We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...

 

[fazers_on_stun]

No more info on PD yet eh? Not suprised. I bet we will know more about Haswell on PDs release date than we will about PD.

On a side note, I have built a few AMD systems with BD in them. One FX 4100 and a few FX 6100s. An interesting bit though is the QA for AMDs CPU packaging and CPUs as of late. A while ago on THG I responded to a thread where a guy got a Phenom II CPU with discolored markings on it like this:

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i435/KEverett001/photo.jpg

I thought it to be a tampered with CPU. But at work I have been running across them more frequently on Athlon IIs and Phenom IIs. You can't clean it, even with 99.9% alcohol. Just found it strange as I have never seen that before with any AMD or Intel CPUs.

Another issue I have run into is with the BD CPUs. They tend to come with a silica package in them and it must be old as some of them are broken with the silica balls just rolling around int it. Another one as well with BD CPUs is the plastic that sits over the HSF to protect the stock TIM looks old, a bit yellowish and is broken. Or both.

Makes me wonder if the good ol GF is cutting corners somewhere as thats what it looks like.

Poor AMD. Hopefully they pursue betetr QA out of GF. I wouldn't want a CPU with weird markings or damaged internal stuff.

Maybe these sat around in some un-airconditioned Malaysian warehouse for a few months. As long as no corrosion on the contacts or fungus on the IHS 😛, I wouldn't worry about it if they boot up once installed..

 

[jdwii]

Whom was it that had AMD contract with GF? Ruiz?

Was the dumbest thing they ever did, They did it to save money and stay in business that's their excuse. Now they have to Wait, Wait, and Wait on GF. Amd should get their chips made from TSMC.

AMD should seriously consider getting intel to FAB there high end chips. At least until they can get GF up to par on 32nm.

Intel's CEO: Hey i wounder what Amd is planning to do with PD, i here its nothing huge
Worker at Intel: Ah Why are they in here
AMD CEO: Hey GF is kinda down right now, i was wondering and kinda hoping that you can build are chips for us PROMISING us you will not look at the design though
Intel CEO: Ah No ...laughing
AMD CEO: WHY!
INTEL CEO: I hate you guys your are competition why would you guys risk this?
AMD: OH OK then, And where risking this because you guys are so super awesome, and just think are fans( ) and stock holders will love us working together.
Intel: GTFO

Sorry i just don't see how that's 0.1% likely.

 

[noob2222]

Was the dumbest thing they ever did, They did it to save money and stay in business that's their excuse. Now they have to Wait, Wait, and Wait on GF. Amd should get their chips made from TSMC.

problem is TSMC skipped over 32nm, wich would require redesign of BD to work there. But if TSMC gets 20nm before GF, I can see AMD moving over (TSMC is skipping 22nm also) TSMC also looks to be ~ 6 months ahead of GF for 22/20nm

Its been considered tho.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Could-Turn-to-TSMC-for-Upcoming-Bulldozer-CPUs-227704.shtml

 

[we1shcake]

Was the dumbest thing they ever did, They did it to save money and stay in business that's their excuse. Now they have to Wait, Wait, and Wait on GF. Amd should get their chips made from TSMC.

AMD should seriously consider getting intel to FAB there high end chips. At least until they can get GF up to par on 32nm.

Intel's CEO: Hey i wounder what Amd is planning to do with PD, i here its nothing huge
Worker at Intel: Ah Why are they in here
AMD CEO: Hey GF is kinda down right now, i was wondering and kinda hoping that you can build are chips for us PROMISING us you will not look at the design though
Intel CEO: Ah No ...laughing
AMD CEO: WHY!
INTEL CEO: I hate you guys your are competition why would you guys risk this?
AMD: OH OK then, And where risking this because you guys are so super awesome, and just think are fans( ) and stock holders will love us working together.
Intel: GTFO

Sorry i just don't see how that's 0.1% likely.

i think intel should open their fabs but to keep themselves ahead keep the newest process to themselves, so open the 45nm to everyone when they got their 32nm chips yielding, and now opening their 32nm fabs once ivy bridge is selling in large numbers

 

[jdwii]

problem is TSMC skipped over 32nm, wich would require redesign of BD to work there. But if TSMC gets 20nm before GF, I can see AMD moving over (TSMC is skipping 22nm also) TSMC also looks to be ~ 6 months ahead of GF for 22/20nm

Its been considered tho.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Could-Turn-to-TSMC-for-Upcoming-Bulldozer-CPUs-227704.shtml

I agree they are all ready having TSMC make their video cards and Lower-end APU's.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Was the dumbest thing they ever did, They did it to save money and stay in business that's their excuse. Now they have to Wait, Wait, and Wait on GF. Amd should get their chips made from TSMC.

Some of us - Jimmysmitty, myself, I think Chad and several others - tried pointing these potential problems with GF out for the last couple of years here, but many of the AMD diehard fans dismissed it as never gonna happen, due to the deep ties between AMD and GF. Unfortunately nothing, including ties between companies, last forever. I don't think AMD is going to let past ties influence what should be a purely business decision as to which foundry to use. So if they get better results from TSMC, then that's whom they should go with.

As for Intel fabbing AMD CPUs, might not be so far-fetched if the FTC steps in due to competition concerns. Given the onslaught of Intel products - Knights Corner, SB-E and Xeon, IB next year, IB-E late next year and then Haswell in 2013, AMD seems to be facing a large number of big challenges in the next 18 months. If Interlagos and PD/Trinity don't generate a lot of income during that timeframe, I can see AMD dumping server and high-end DT entirely, which might get the FTC's attention. Interlagos is already bargain-basement priced from what I can see, so not a lot of room to drop prices for a huge chip like that.

Finally, all those AMD diehard fans should start listening to Jimmysmitty - his crystal ball is working at 1080P, whereas some other guy's is working at maybe 10P 😛..

 

[dogman_1234]

Mine seems to be a 720 right now....

 

[Reynod]

Some of us - Jimmysmitty, myself, I think Chad and several others - tried pointing these potential problems with GF out for the last couple of years here, but many of the AMD diehard fans dismissed it as never gonna happen, due to the deep ties between AMD and GF. Unfortunately nothing, including ties between companies, last forever. I don't think AMD is going to let past ties influence what should be a purely business decision as to which foundry to use. So if they get better results from TSMC, then that's whom they should go with.

As for Intel fabbing AMD CPUs, might not be so far-fetched if the FTC steps in due to competition concerns. Given the onslaught of Intel products - Knights Corner, SB-E and Xeon, IB next year, IB-E late next year and then Haswell in 2013, AMD seems to be facing a large number of big challenges in the next 18 months. If Interlagos and PD/Trinity don't generate a lot of income during that timeframe, I can see AMD dumping server and high-end DT entirely, which might get the FTC's attention. Interlagos is already bargain-basement priced from what I can see, so not a lot of room to drop prices for a huge chip like that.

Finally, all those AMD diehard fans should start listening to Jimmysmitty - his crystal ball is working at 1080P, whereas some other guy's is working at maybe 10P 😛..

This sort of forum worship is usually reseved for the mighty MU ... who has not been around much lately.

I will light a small candle for him.

 

[dogman_1234]

Who is MU?

 

[dogman_1234]

Well...

 

[jdwii]

Some of us - Jimmysmitty, myself, I think Chad and several others - tried pointing these potential problems with GF out for the last couple of years here, but many of the AMD diehard fans dismissed it as never gonna happen, due to the deep ties between AMD and GF. Unfortunately nothing, including ties between companies, last forever. I don't think AMD is going to let past ties influence what should be a purely business decision as to which foundry to use. So if they get better results from TSMC, then that's whom they should go with.

As for Intel fabbing AMD CPUs, might not be so far-fetched if the FTC steps in due to competition concerns. Given the onslaught of Intel products - Knights Corner, SB-E and Xeon, IB next year, IB-E late next year and then Haswell in 2013, AMD seems to be facing a large number of big challenges in the next 18 months. If Interlagos and PD/Trinity don't generate a lot of income during that timeframe, I can see AMD dumping server and high-end DT entirely, which might get the FTC's attention. Interlagos is already bargain-basement priced from what I can see, so not a lot of room to drop prices for a huge chip like that.

Finally, all those AMD diehard fans should start listening to Jimmysmitty - his crystal ball is working at 1080P, whereas some other guy's is working at maybe 10P 😛..

Yeah i would of agreed with you guys if i was into Reading into this kind of stuff back then.

Sorry i had to edit did not read all of what you said.

I can say without any doubt what so ever Intel will never ever make Amd CPU's/GPU's. When this happens Intel will control everything at Amd. If amd does this it will be one of the dumbest things they can do and the person who agree's to it needs to get fired.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

This sort of forum worship is usually reseved for the mighty MU ... who has not been around much lately.

I will light a small candle for him.

Well I praise JS mainly because he usually agrees with me 😀..

Plus he's never afraid to call 'em as he sees 'em.

But I agree that MU is pretty knowledgeable too. We are lucky to have a fairly well-informed set of posters here, IMO, including some actually working for AMD and Intel. They tend to put things into perspective when the fanboys stampede off the ranch 😀.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Wow. Shipping visual defects. Harsh. Yields must be pretty brutal if they didn't scrap these.

For their 45nm CPUs? I would hope not. Unless GF screwed that up.

Maybe these sat around in some un-airconditioned Malaysian warehouse for a few months. As long as no corrosion on the contacts or fungus on the IHS 😛, I wouldn't worry about it if they boot up once installed..

Yea most work. Just strange that they have those "defects"

problem is TSMC skipped over 32nm, wich would require redesign of BD to work there. But if TSMC gets 20nm before GF, I can see AMD moving over (TSMC is skipping 22nm also) TSMC also looks to be ~ 6 months ahead of GF for 22/20nm

Its been considered tho.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Could-Turn-to-TSMC-for-Upcoming-Bulldozer-CPUs-227704.shtml

TSMCs is a GPU driven company so yea, they will have different process tech as GPUs have never used normal process tech (apart from APUs).

I would not be suprised if AMD did jump to TSMC. TSMC is pretty reliable, apart from their horribly leaky early 40n stuff (HD4770s).

i think intel should open their fabs but to keep themselves ahead keep the newest process to themselves, so open the 45nm to everyone when they got their 32nm chips yielding, and now opening their 32nm fabs once ivy bridge is selling in large numbers

I would agree. Intel would have a major hold though since they do have the best process tech in the world. Probably be very profitable.

This sort of forum worship is usually reseved for the mighty MU ... who has not been around much lately.

I will light a small candle for him.

MU is great for programming. He can also look at a CPU and see the potential for the CPU. I do miss his input.

Well I praise JS mainly because he usually agrees with me 😀..

Plus he's never afraid to call 'em as he sees 'em.

But I agree that MU is pretty knowledgeable too. We are lucky to have a fairly well-informed set of posters here, IMO, including some actually working for AMD and Intel. They tend to put things into perspective when the fanboys stampede off the ranch 😀.

The people I agree with tend to have the same idea as me which is to look for the truth instead of rumors or of courseb blind fanboyism.

No reason to throw away benchmarks because you like a certain company. Is the HD6970 better than the GTX580? Nope. But it costs less and still performs very well.

 

[Welve]

^^^The 6970 competes with the the GTX 570 price and even performance-wise, the 580 seems to be in graphics card limbo with the 6990 priced far higher with better performance and the 570 and 6970 moderately lower with moderately lower performance...Sort of like the 6870's performance in the mid-range for cost.

You make a good point though, I love AMD, but I will be hard pressed to buy from them in my next build (2-3 years out) if the current trend continues...Performance doesn't lie and Intel is on a roll, I just hope it doesn't mean a steamroll for AMD. All I want is a reasonably priced competitive product, but between power consumption, single threaded performance, and everything else that has been rehashed over and over again it just isn't happening.

Bulldozer is an ugly mess, it just remains to be seen if AMD can give it some silicon surgery and make Piledriver a real knockout (SO MANY PUNS, I should get points for puns).

 

[warmon6]

MU is great for programming. He can also look at a CPU and see the potential for the CPU. I do miss his input.

Well, you could always PM him for input. He is still active in the forums (just not this section of the forums).

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/profile-61517.htm

 

[Reynod]

We could ban him from posting anywhere but in CPU's !!

No ... wait ... thats probably the stupidist thing Iv'e typed since I spelled my name wrong on that job application form a whale back ... duh.

 

[amdfangirl]

We'll ban him from the CPU section so he realises how much he has lost :O

 

[Reynod]

I'll PM him and set a light mood ...

/lights some frankincense and looks for mirr ...

 

[Welve]

Another issue I have run into is with the BD CPUs. They tend to come with a silica package in them and it must be old as some of them are broken with the silica balls just rolling around int it. Another one as well with BD CPUs is the plastic that sits over the HSF to protect the stock TIM looks old, a bit yellowish and is broken. Or both.

Makes me wonder if the good ol GF is cutting corners somewhere as thats what it looks like.

Poor AMD. Hopefully they pursue betetr QA out of GF. I wouldn't want a CPU with weird markings or damaged internal stuff.

I got a II X4 980 today and lo-and-behold the silica gel packet had broken, thankfully I am not going to use the stock heatsink. Luckily the processor itself is blemish free, but it doesn't bode well for QC at AMD 🙁

 

[dogman_1234]

Pics?

 

[Welve]

I dumped it out over the sink, but I can photograph an empty gel packet if you want. Though before you request that, keep in mind I have a cheap camera phone. I wouldn't lie about this, I am actually somewhat annoyed.

 

[metallifux]

I would tell te store where you got it from. Just so they can make sure AMD is aware of it.

 

[BaronMatrix]

Not much of a change, so why go FM2?

I would say it's because they may want to have a six core APU next year.

 

[Welve]

I am going to email AMD tomorrow, I will post their reply here.

 

[BaronMatrix]

Piledriver really needs a triple or quad channel memory controller. Unfortunately that doesn't look like it will happen. As we saw with the Llano APU the DDR3 speed has significant effect on the graphics performance.

Beefing up the GPU 50% and adding Bulldozer cores is really going to squeeze the memory bus. DDR3 2133 will help but it's expensive.

Quad channel on the desktop is useless. Look at i7 920 vs. i7 870.

AMD just needs to get more support for XOP and FMA. If people aren't doing it even though Intel will have it means the shenanigans continue. But PD should be the third rev of the Bx series BD. PD is supposed to have bit manipulation instrs that may help with a lot of things. Have to research it.