AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

[Reynod]

We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...

 

[fazers_on_stun]

^ IIRC AMD stock went down to $1.63 a few years back and they survived that, so I wouldn't put too much emphasis on a stock price of $4 or so. If somebody had wanted to buy out AMD they could have done so long before now.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

some more fodder :

http://www.obr-hardware.com/2012/08/new-amd-bulldozer-ver2-es-samples-are.html

These CPUs are Bulldozer architecrure chips, probably not 100 percent pure PileDriver core CPUs! Dont know why, but its true. Real (fans expected) PileDriver will be launched later (December 12/January 13?). Look at OPN of this chip:

ZD 3382 51 W 8 K 54


Z - Enginnering sample, D - Desktop part, 3382 - ES model name base clock (3,3 GHz), 51 - roadmap (AM3r2 + Bulldozer), W - socket (AM3r2), 8 - eight cores, K - cache size 8 MB, 54 - revision (C0). This is classic Orochi core with some PileDriver enhancement (new instructions F16C, FMA, BMI1, TBM, TCE + some bug fixes). Not 100 percent pure PileDriver core expected by AMD fans! But maybe this is that real desktop PileDriver (only C0 Bulldy), but who knows now ...

tl;dr : AMD cpu's launching in october are BD + new instructions + some bug fixes

Pure Piledriver are launcing sometimes in december/January.

 

[truegenius]

mal->legend->verbal=>DITTO
😗


verbalizer = master 😱

fx8350= 8 core @ 4ghz = as per my guesstimation

 

[mayankleoboy1]

http://vr-zone.com/articles/better-late-than-never--amd-steamroller-not-piledriver-to-be-the-saviour-/17020.html

The substantial, if not indefinite, delay of Trinity desktop parts, as well as server-centric focus of the remaining Piledriver chips that are expected - like 16-core 'Abu Dhabi', raises some questions.

 

[jdwii]

Its already late Trinity should of released in july 1 year after Llano. How many Llano's do they even have in stock?

Really hoping to see Amd come back again in the server market and start releasing products on time. I'm starting to think a CEO is like a President a good talker but that's it.

If i had my money in Amd i would not be happy but then again i would not be that smart either.

 

[GrandAndreasK]

The latest news says that the FX-83xx series will be released in October and the FX-43xx and FX-63xx will be released in December.

http://www.cpu-world.com/Releases/Desktop_CPU_releases_(2012).html


But the i7-3970X will also be released in December to kick the ass of AMD-Fanboys

 

[noob2222]

Its already late Trinity should of released in july 1 year after Llano. How many Llano's do they even have in stock?

Really hoping to see Amd come back again in the server market and start releasing products on time. I'm starting to think a CEO is like a President a good talker but that's it.

If i had my money in Amd i would not be happy but then again i would not be that smart either.

Personally for an end user, there isn't much difference between trinity and llano. both for the small system builder market do pretty much the same. That doesn't mean trinity isn't available, just not as a chip yet.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103462&Tpk=a10%205700%20amd

Wonder if GF is still having problems with the gpu being functional still since this one comes with a discrete gpu. HP has one also but its harder to find and not on their own website, but supposedly available at sams club. http://www.samsclub.com/sams/hp-pavilion-p7-desktop-amd-qc-a10-5700-2tb-27-display/prod6950030.ip?dblclick=true&pid=_DoubleClick_Affiliates&#BVRRWidgetID

But the i7-3970X will also be released in December to kick the ass of AMD-Fanboys

for $1000+ ill pass, have fun bragging about how much money you have and how little you care about value. besides that the 3970x is sandy bridge, nothing new but +100 mhz, +$200.

 

[jdwii]

Have to admit Amd is disappointing me but i still love that i can make a 300$ Computer, that can still play Sims 3 and watch 1080P Netflix videos! This machine only uses 40-60 watts on idle and 100-130 watts most of the time doing media streaming.

Case: 29.99$ (Rosewill R218-P-BK Black SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147073
Power Supply: 36.99$ (Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W Continuous power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033
Motherboard: 53.99$ (ASRock A55M-HVS FM1 AMD A55 (Hudson D2) HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157277
Hard Drive: 59.99$ (Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKX 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136769
DVD-Rom: 19.99$ (ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS - OEM)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204
Ram: 31.49$ (Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 Plug n Play Desktop Memory Model KHX1866C11D3P1K2/4G)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104263
APU: 59.99$ (AMD A4-3400 Llano 2.7GHz Socket FM1 65W Dual-Core Desktop APU (CPU + GPU) with DirectX 11 Graphic AMD Radeon HD 6410D AD3400OJHXBOX)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819106014
Total: 293$

This machine is for my friends dad who was told 300$ could not allow him to play 1080P videos smoothly wow was that guy wrong!

 

[r0ck3tm@n]

Have to admit Amd is disappointing me but i still love that i can make a 300$ Computer, that can still play Sims 3 and watch 1080P Netflix videos! This machine only uses 40-60 watts on idle and 100-130 watts most of the time doing media streaming.
...
Total: 293$

This machine is for my friends dad who was told 300$ could not allow him to play 1080P videos smoothly wow was that guy wrong!

I think you are missing the real value. For $1000 you can reuse some parts that you have and build a computer worth thousands more. You can also add things you just won't find like a RAID array. I always buy parts with re-use in mind so I can stretch out the value when I rebuild.

 

[jdwii]

I think you are missing the real value. For $1000 you can reuse some parts that you have and build a computer worth thousands more. You can also add things you just won't find like a RAID array. I always buy parts with re-use in mind so I can stretch out the value when I rebuild.

So true!

if it was for me i would of used some spare parts but when i do a build for some one i always do new.

 

[noob2222]

I think you are missing the real value. For $1000 you can reuse some parts that you have and build a computer worth thousands more. You can also add things you just won't find like a RAID array. I always buy parts with re-use in mind so I can stretch out the value when I rebuild.

I always get a laugh when people suggest a 400W power supply for a build suggestion down from the 750W he wanted on the system build forums. I bought a 800W about 6 years ago ... still don't need to worry about replacing it. boughty my full tower super micro case 15 years ago, only did some mods to accomodate 120mm fans instead of the 80mms. WC loop all internal (well 90%, top fans stick half way out). HDD raid array going on 6+ years.

My backup/storage drives are in my htpc (5TB raid1), but 640gig is enough for 90% of what i do anyway.

 

[jdwii]

I always get a laugh when people suggest a 400W power supply for a build suggestion down from the 750W he wanted on the system build forums. I bought a 800W about 6 years ago ... still don't need to worry about replacing it. boughty my full tower super micro case 15 years ago, only did some mods to accomodate 120mm fans instead of the 80mms. WC loop all internal (well 90%, top fans stick half way out). HDD raid array going on 6+ years.

My backup/storage drives are in my htpc (5TB raid1), but 640gig is enough for 90% of what i do anyway.

Or when people buy a 1000watt PSU for 50$ instead of a good 400 watt one for that price. Lol their "1000 watt" PSU can probably barley do 400 watts before it shuts down and kills their PC and its also running at like 65% or lower efficiency.

 

[esrever]

I always get a laugh when people suggest a 400W power supply for a build suggestion down from the 750W he wanted on the system build forums. I bought a 800W about 6 years ago ... still don't need to worry about replacing it. boughty my full tower super micro case 15 years ago, only did some mods to accomodate 120mm fans instead of the 80mms. WC loop all internal (well 90%, top fans stick half way out). HDD raid array going on 6+ years.

My backup/storage drives are in my htpc (5TB raid1), but 640gig is enough for 90% of what i do anyway.

a high quality 400w PSU will also last just as long and give you lower power consumption and cost less upfront...

 

[alpha_c]

Waiting for an AMD upgrade that is worth upgrading to is really testing my patience.

"Well, one reason could be that, maybe, there is not enough improvement in per core performance from "Bulldozer" to "Piledriver" to justify the new product release, as it wouldn't improve the competitive position against Intel in the desktop segment at all."

- http://vr-zone.com/articles/better-late-than-never--amd-steamroller-not-piledriver-to-be-the-saviour-/17020.html#ixzz243CjfNIE

I suspect we won't see anything really interesting til 2014 or so in terms of CPU performance if the FX series even stays afloat. Probably the APU side will get more massive with the CPU department shrinking.

I haven't chosen sides on Intel/AMD, I go purely by price/performance. I wish AMD the best because competition is good for consumers, but they have given us all little hope these past generations since dual cores became mainstream. It's not really AMD's fault, because multicore is a software development support problem. The fact that Dual core Pentium and Celerons still exist on socket 1155 is a testament to that (as well as hyperthreading).

(I have had an Intel486, Pentium, Pentium II, K6?, Pentium III, Athlon, Pentium 4, Athlon XP, Athlon 64, Athlon 64x2, Core2Duo/Core2Quad, Athlon II X4, Phenom II X4, Intel 1st gen i3. FX series is too disappointing, even if you are a fan of AMD.)

Intel is doing better clock for clock and also in terms of manufacturing process (22nm vs 28m from AMD). Their prices are also in decent margin with respect to the AMD processors, so long as you don't use integrated graphics. That is why APU is AMD's hope, but that may be crushed by Intel's Haswell. It's kind of like the flop of 1st gen Phenom (but not buggy, just not better than previous gen in the real world enough to warrant upgrade).

AMD probably had it's heyday around the Athlon XP - Athlon 64 (Athlon 64 3500+ comes to mind) days even though it was around since before the i386 days.

The only way that AMD can hope to compete is with more physical core usage and sticking to a single motherboard architecture for an extended period to make it cheaper overall (rather than just having the CPU cheaper by a marginal amount). Having 8 cores (not hyperthread or piledriver cores) means nothing in the conventional user market, though it means something for servers, solvers, and whatnot. When AM3+ support gets dropped, they better have a longterm answer (3-5 years) to Intel's 2 year cycle. Otherwise it's better to just go Intel. For example, LGA 775 was a great socket as is 939. FM1 is terrible, because FM2 is going to be out soon.

 

[noob2222]

a high quality 400w PSU will also last just as long and give you lower power consumption and cost less upfront...

this is a common mis-conception that a 1000W power supply will always draw 1000W. A power supply will draw whats demanded, up to that point. The energy consuption is dependent on the efficiency of the power supply. 1000W drawn from an 80% efficient power supply will draw 1200 watts from the wall. if its drawing 100w it will draw 120W from the wall. This is of course taking a straight line, wich power supplies are not.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2395/14

In all acuallity, most power supplies are their peak efficiency at 50% load

so technically, a 800W power supply is more efficient at 400W than a 400W power supply

Add sli/crossfire to that 400w powersupply and buy a new ps when it blows. I will never run into that issue.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

^ it will draw 1250W, not 1200W for 80% efficiency 😛

With the newer bronze/silver/gold efficinecy PSU's, those charts would be different, AFAIK. These newer PSU's have better efficiency at higher loads than this chart shows.

the newer PSU's dont drop efficiency as sharply at >50% than the older ones.

 

[Cazalan]

AMD probably had it's heyday around the Athlon XP - Athlon 64 (Athlon 64 3500+ comes to mind) days even though it was around since before the i386 days.

I'm afraid the single chip Haswell solution with integrated South Bridge and GT3 graphics will seal the nail on the coffin for AMD's mobile chips.

Who's going to buy a 2 chip solution when a 1 chip solution is available?

 

[Cazalan]

Personally for an end user, there isn't much difference between trinity and llano. both for the small system builder market do pretty much the same. That doesn't mean trinity isn't available, just not as a chip yet.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103462&Tpk=a10%205700%20amd

There used to be a second A10-5700 unit from HP. I notice that one has disappeared from Newegg.

 

[noob2222]

Or when people buy a 1000watt PSU for 50$ instead of a good 400 watt one for that price. Lol their "1000 watt" PSU can probably barley do 400 watts before it shuts down and kills their PC and its also running at like 65% or lower efficiency.

kina like this one? http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=123
love the 12v rail hitting 15v.

interesting site I never saw before, primarily testing power supplies.

 

[esrever]

this is a common mis-conception that a 1000W power supply will always draw 1000W. A power supply will draw whats demanded, up to that point. The energy consuption is dependent on the efficiency of the power supply. 1000W drawn from an 80% efficient power supply will draw 1200 watts from the wall. if its drawing 100w it will draw 120W from the wall. This is of course taking a straight line, wich power supplies are not.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2395/14

In all acuallity, most power supplies are their peak efficiency at 50% load

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/psu/2007/roundup-8x-1000W/eff-comparison-230.png

so technically, a 800W power supply is more efficient at 400W than a 400W power supply

Add sli/crossfire to that 400w powersupply and buy a new ps when it blows. I will never run into that issue.

with a stress test of both cpu and gpu, you'd have a hard time getting a single card system to use more than 400w. General max use will be below 300w, giving you max power efficiency if you use a 500W psu. Considering most people don't have the system loaded most of the time, the lower the max wattage of the power supply the more efficient it will be.

 

[noob2222]

now days efficiency is 1% between a high watt ps and a low one. the discussion was on re-using parts, buying a 400W ps is a throw away part if you upgrade to a high end system. There is no other way around it.

 

[-Fran-]

now days efficiency is 1% between a high watt ps and a low one. the discussion was on re-using parts, buying a 400W ps is a throw away part if you upgrade to a high end system. There is no other way around it.

Well, there is also the ATX standard. Thought I had to make that point, since my old and trusty TT 450W from my Athlon has such little connectivity for the A8, it became a franken-psu 😛

Though, I agree to most part. A high power PSU could save a little money down the road, as long as the ATX standard doesn't change them too much 😛

Cheers!

EDIT: Missing word

 

[Bucky_Beaver]

"Anand Mandapati & David Wang: Key Console and Desktop GPU Architects Leave AMD"

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2012/8/17/anand-mandapati--david-wang-key-console-and-desktop-gpu-architects-leave-amd-.aspx

 

[davemaster84]

Waiting for an AMD upgrade that is worth upgrading to is really testing my patience.

"Well, one reason could be that, maybe, there is not enough improvement in per core performance from "Bulldozer" to "Piledriver" to justify the new product release, as it wouldn't improve the competitive position against Intel in the desktop segment at all."

- http://vr-zone.com/articles/better-late-than-never--amd-steamroller-not-piledriver-to-be-the-saviour-/17020.html#ixzz243CjfNIE

I suspect we won't see anything really interesting til 2014 or so in terms of CPU performance if the FX series even stays afloat. Probably the APU side will get more massive with the CPU department shrinking.

I haven't chosen sides on Intel/AMD, I go purely by price/performance. I wish AMD the best because competition is good for consumers, but they have given us all little hope these past generations since dual cores became mainstream. It's not really AMD's fault, because multicore is a software development support problem. The fact that Dual core Pentium and Celerons still exist on socket 1155 is a testament to that (as well as hyperthreading).

(I have had an Intel486, Pentium, Pentium II, K6?, Pentium III, Athlon, Pentium 4, Athlon XP, Athlon 64, Athlon 64x2, Core2Duo/Core2Quad, Athlon II X4, Phenom II X4, Intel 1st gen i3. FX series is too disappointing, even if you are a fan of AMD.)

Intel is doing better clock for clock and also in terms of manufacturing process (22nm vs 28m from AMD). Their prices are also in decent margin with respect to the AMD processors, so long as you don't use integrated graphics. That is why APU is AMD's hope, but that may be crushed by Intel's Haswell. It's kind of like the flop of 1st gen Phenom (but not buggy, just not better than previous gen in the real world enough to warrant upgrade).

AMD probably had it's heyday around the Athlon XP - Athlon 64 (Athlon 64 3500+ comes to mind) days even though it was around since before the i386 days.

The only way that AMD can hope to compete is with more physical core usage and sticking to a single motherboard architecture for an extended period to make it cheaper overall (rather than just having the CPU cheaper by a marginal amount). Having 8 cores (not hyperthread or piledriver cores) means nothing in the conventional user market, though it means something for servers, solvers, and whatnot. When AM3+ support gets dropped, they better have a longterm answer (3-5 years) to Intel's 2 year cycle. Otherwise it's better to just go Intel. For example, LGA 775 was a great socket as is 939. FM1 is terrible, because FM2 is going to be out soon.

Well the rumors say it will be a 10% upgrade over bulldozer core to core, not overall performance. I think it will worth the upgrade, not enough to make intel are about, but for sure it will still be a good, cheaper option compared to intel.

 

[newb88]

what will be the price when fx 8350 or A10-5800k is released? FX 8150 was USD 245 when it was released, any estimate for amd's new cpu price?