AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

[Reynod]

We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...

 

[esrever]

I think the A10 65W trinity will be very popular for system builders who need HTPCs or just a general system for weak tasks.

Piledriver should be decent for video and rendering. Doubt it will be popular.

 

[viridiancrystal]

To many rumors, what I have heard is the 15% is rather close to the mark but the architecture is quite similar, so some things like latency while better are still not up to 2012 spec. Steam Roller is expected to employ new architecture so I will assume in terms of performance at metal level we will have to wait.

So we can still expect to see some stutters becasue of the cache latency and shared L2 cache (among other things). I'll take that as a consumer if it performs at all like Trinity shows. 15% clock over clock increase is nothing to laugh at. I hope PD's power use is down too. I read from time to time about how far BD chips can be pushed, even on air cooling. I feel like it the power and heat get it check, 4.5+ should not be too hard for the average overclocker to do.

intel has had failures in gpu department. that's why they shifted to making igpu and mic.
socket change is...was a problem imo. now intel change sockets every two gens. rumors suggest that haswell and broadwell will support the same socket (lga 1150) like sb and ivb does (lga 1155). socket change is only an issue if you buy entry level hardware and use for a long time, like over 3-4 years. amd also change socket when they need to. they seem to change sockets when they change memory standards (am2 to am3) or when design calls for it (fm1 to fm2), not much unlike intel. imagine how desktop llano owners feel when they want to upgrade.
i agree that core i7 segmentation is annoying and confusing to new buyers. that is classic intel evil marketing trickery (tm).

amd is in a bit of a bind here. they will likely release trinity and pd to coincide with windows 8 ( around october 2012). they will have to clear out surplus llano stock before that. they will also have to pursuade users to buy steamroller apus (or is it 28nm pd cpu + gcn igpu?) in mid-2013. i don't know how they're gonna manage three major desktop platform launches within 12 months time. i am counting retail desktop trinity with pd and new 28 nm apus. mobile platform seems fine with the apus only. then there is haswell gt3...
amd could release dt trinity now as intel has no answer to those. they coulda scored big. trinity offers better overall performance than sb core i3 even though both are 32 nm chips and intel doesn't have sub $160 quad core cpus. unlocked 4 cores, even higher level igpu performance at stock, rcm, better single threaded performance than dullbozer - trinity has a lot of good points. if it's priced under $160, it will sell a lot, hopefully.

From what those of us on the forum know, DT Trinity is already done, AMD is just waiting to release it. I don't understand why, but they are.

Edit: missing word

 

[Dangi]

Well, I have been following this thread for some time waiting for a final release date for 83XX, and now that it seems that it will be out in october is time to step in in this discussion.

Trinity has shown and increase of 15% in performance over Llano, and without L3 !!
All this improvement while being manufactured in the same process, this means a great improvement in design.
The improvement IB made over SB is not that huge and also taking into account new manufacture process, 22 nm gates means faster gates and less power hungry than 32nm gates, so that improvement IB made over SB how much is due to better design and how much due to better process ??

If the price is right in october I will get and AMD FX 83XX, if the price is not righ I will get an i5K or 8120 don't know yet

 

[jdwii]

People talk so much about Intel been so perfect and AMD been so nasty, but actually no one mentions the Intel problems: First they do awful in the cpu + integrated gpu but that's not the main issue, Intel users find themselves with board socket changes not only every generation appears, but you can't even usee the same board for I7s and I5s, because they are run in different sockets. I tought about going to Intel once, but after I realized the only way to have a x79 mobo was also to spend a huge ammount of money in a Ivy I7 I decided to stay with phenom.

Regarding gaming only games that are cpu dependant like MMORPGs and strategy games show an important advantage over AMD, but since most games are GPU dependant it really doesn't matter if you are running a 2600k or a 8120. We'll have to wait until piledriver's release to see how narrow becomes the line between Intel and AMD.

Yes, yes they were issues like 2 years ago , in the tech industry its about now not then and saying that Intel has Amd by the throats. They used to do unfair business practices but now their beating Amd the old fashion way by making better products and from what i can tell all Amd has left is their Graphics/APU(unless intel can make one heck of a GPU) and HSA computing(future).

I have no faith that Amd can make a killer CPU for desktop or server, but i sure hope they can keep improving their GPU enough in their APU to stay ahead of Intel. I guess their not interested in working in the smartphone/tablet market with Arm or Arm doesn't want Amd to help 😉

Amd only has a small gap they can compete in when compared to Intel and lets hope that Gap doesn't get smaller. A Amd A10 Laptop is only worth 650$ at most and a A4 Laptop is only worth 350-400$ at most.

By not making High-end CPU's Intel controls prices for example if they lowered their 2500K to 149.99$ Amd would have to lower their CPU's dramatically to compete Now if a 8150fx was 50% faster then a I7 2600K Amd could lower the 8150 and Intel would have to react. That's how the economy works this is why the high-end is very important for a Tech company. You can see the same thing when the gtx 660 came out Amd lowered their 7950 to compete with it as well as lowering some cheaper options.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

HSA cant take off much because most code and workloads cant be parallelized to take advantage of the GPU.
OpenCL and direct compute are not yet mainstream.

 

[viridiancrystal]

HSA cant take off much because most code and workloads cant be parallelized to take advantage of the GPU.
OpenCL and direct compute are not yet mainstream.

But if the gpu can process certain types of code? I think that is a quicker way to get HSA into the market, but whether it will work at all, or can be added easily is left to be seen.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

^

the type of workload that can use hundreds of cores is already using it : image, video and scientific compute.

other everyday tasks dont have much scope of using hundreds of parallel threads. They might use 2 threads for Read and write or store or processing. That is already being done on a mainstream dual/quad core CPU.

One good candidate of 'general task' is compression. Winzip released an openCL version, but it doesnt use any GPU. It only runs on systems with an AMD CPU. And the performance of winzip +OpenCL+ AMD CPU = winrar+Intel CPU. And 7zip outperforms both.

Now If someone can port 7zip to use the GPU.....

the only way i see HSA getting popular is for Microsoft to incorporate it into its OS for compute and other tasks. Now what in an desktop OS can be heavily parallelized ?

 

[GrandAndreasK]

Yeah i bet Nasa and the army is using tech that is 50 years ahead of the general population anyway

 

[esrever]

Yeah i bet Nasa and the army is using tech that is 50 years ahead of the general population anyway

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nexus-One-Nexus-S-PhoneSat-NASA-Satellite,17173.html

NASA got no funding any more, they are sending smart phones into space...

 

[Smeg45]

I doubt you'd notice the latency difference in that techreport article or the percentile differences unless you directly compared an APU to LGA 2011. Still, I've made up my mind already, if Haswell is still smashing AMD like Ivy/Sandy Bridge is bashing Bulldozer middle of next year, I will more than likely move to Intel unless Piledriver is priced very decently.

 

[cgner]

Its sad how short people's memories can be and how short their sight can be. Everyone here talks about how sucky AMD cpu's are and going to be (rightfully so, thats what discussion is about). You guys however forget that while AMD has been lacking in CPU market, it has contracts for next gen consoles' chips, it competes successfully in APU and GPU markets. It is only one company, and given those successes, i would say they are doing well.

As far as whole BD to PD performance increase goes, I think AMD will stick to mid range sub $240 CPU's for now, just like in the last 2 or so years. If they skipped it and moved on to next archie, that would possibly be a better solution.

 

[jkhoward]

http://12tronics.com/index.php?/topic/397-amd-fx-8150-overclocking/

Stop posting about how bad AMD is.. please read this and try it out for yourself. I want extreme overclockers to try this and compare it with Intel benchmarks. I feel that this will blow Intel out of the water. GO GO GO!!!

 

[jkhoward]

shut-it.....
get outta here with that nonsense, that means 'squat' meaning just absolutely nothing..
who cares, you gonna run it like that 24/7.? NO..
does the performance still suck, YES...
read the article, he's kinda bashing and naming Bulldozer flaws..
dweeb..

Woah bro. You are the dweeb my friend. My CPU will beat your CPU any day. I want people to realize that just by disabling 4 of the cores you get a 15% increase in performance. With that said, then you can overclock it and get more performance out of the CPU bringing it closer to the performance of a Intel CPU. You my friend are the dweeb. I am just trying to get the word out to help make AMD shine were you are not.

And not even that, if this same overclock gives piledriver a 15% performance boost then we are on par with Ivy Bridge! SO beofre you talk *** use your head.

F U Bro.
Joel

 

[-Fran-]

Well, so far any 8150, even at 4.5Ghz, has problem beating steadily a 980 at 4.0Ghz (and they can go till 4.3 with some effort). In particular, most of the folks reading this thread know and understand why its like that, so you won't (easily) convince most of us here the other way. We all know multithreading in the 8150 is good and all, but we like to think games.

Also, no need to catch the flamebait so fast; just be cool and level headed. If you want, talk it out in PMs, but not here, please. We don't want to give mods reasons to close the thread (again).

And mal, don't do that =/

Cheers!

 

[GrandAndreasK]

Woah bro. You are the dweeb my friend. My CPU will beat your CPU any day. I want people to realize that just by disabling 4 of the cores you get a 15% increase in performance. With that said, then you can overclock it and get more performance out of the CPU bringing it closer to the performance of a Intel CPU. You my friend are the dweeb. I am just trying to get the word out to help make AMD shine were you are not.

And not even that, if this same overclock gives piledriver a 15% performance boost then we are on par with Ivy Bridge! SO beofre you talk *** use your head.

F U Bro.
Joel

 

[jkhoward]

Well, so far any 8150, even at 4.5Ghz, has problem beating steadily a 980 at 4.0Ghz (and they can go till 4.3 with some effort). In particular, most of the folks reading this thread know and understand why its like that, so you won't (easily) convince most of us here the other way. We all know multithreading in the 8150 is good and all, but we like to think games.

Also, no need to catch the flamebait so fast; just be cool and level headed. If you want, talk it out in PMs, but not here, please. We don't want to give mods reasons to close the thread (again).

And mal, don't do that =/

Cheers!

You are right about one thing. I do apologize for jumping the gun on becoming upset. But the thing is that I have done this on a few computers now and increased my single threaded core speed by 15% on all computers. I am trying to open peoples minds up and give this a shot with there current builds. And since Piledriver is going to be built the same way as far as architecture goes there my be a chance that we can see a 30% performance boost versus the stock Bulldozer architecture that we know today.

EDIT: LOL! that is a funny picture you posted. I am not a fan boy. I know that Intel is the best CPU on the board period. I love AMD for their prices and would lvoe to see them be able to compete with Intel. The whole reason I started to look into overclocking the Fx-8150 this way is because Intel blew AMD off of the map! 😍

 

[earl45]

You are right about one thing. I do apologize for jumping the gun on becoming upset. But the thing is that I have done this on a few computers now and increased my single threaded core speed by 15% on all computers. I am trying to open peoples minds up and give this a shot with there current builds. And since Piledriver is going to be built the same way as far as architecture goes there my be a chance that we can see a 30% performance boost versus the stock Bulldozer architecture that we know today.

EDIT: LOL! that is a funny picture you posted. I am not a fan boy. I know that Intel is the best CPU on the board period. I love AMD for their prices and would lvoe to see them be able to compete with Intel. The whole reason I started to look into overclocking the Fx-8150 this way is because Intel blew AMD off of the map! 😍

So let me get this straight people should buy an 8 core FX-8150 and disable half the chip so it can perform
better. [:earl45:1]

 

[jdwii]

http://12tronics.com/index.php?/topic/397-amd-fx-8150-overclocking/

Stop posting about how bad AMD is.. please read this and try it out for yourself. I want extreme overclockers to try this and compare it with Intel benchmarks. I feel that this will blow Intel out of the water. GO GO GO!!!

Lets try to be realistic please.

Its sad how short people's memories can be and how short their sight can be. Everyone here talks about how sucky AMD cpu's are and going to be (rightfully so, thats what discussion is about). You guys however forget that while AMD has been lacking in CPU market, it has contracts for next gen consoles' chips, it competes successfully in APU and GPU markets. It is only one company, and given those successes, i would say they are doing well.

As far as whole BD to PD performance increase goes, I think AMD will stick to mid range sub $240 CPU's for now, just like in the last 2 or so years. If they skipped it and moved on to next archie, that would possibly be a better solution.

Consoles are years behind are systems and server systems and if this was such a great thing Amd would be worth more. Oh yeah and their market for APU's are very small like between the 350-650$ market for laptops.

Woah bro. You are the dweeb my friend. My CPU will beat your CPU any day. I want people to realize that just by disabling 4 of the cores you get a 15% increase in performance. With that said, then you can overclock it and get more performance out of the CPU bringing it closer to the performance of a Intel CPU. You my friend are the dweeb. I am just trying to get the word out to help make AMD shine were you are not.

And not even that, if this same overclock gives piledriver a 15% performance boost then we are on par with Ivy Bridge! SO beofre you talk *** use your head.

F U Bro.
Joel

Wow your the king of the trolls! Wow while your pouring in your crap to clock piledriver upto 5.0Ghz to get the same performance a I5 at 3.4Ghz does he will be gaming.

So let me get this straight people should buy an 8 core FX-8150 and disable half the chip so it can perform
better. [:earl45:1]

I'll keep my phenom! Sorry but even Piledriver wont be ompetitive with Intel unless its priced right.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

so you buy an 8 core and a good overclocking motherboard, disable the 4 cores, add tons of liquid cooling, Overclock to 5 ghz, get lots of power bill, and then you can almost match the performance of a stock 4 core Ivy bridge processor @ 3.4 ghz in some of the benchmarks ?

 

[GrandAndreasK]

I'd rather get a stock i7-3820 than to torture a fx-8150 with 5ghz

 

[shams khan]

do you that

 

[cgner]

Consoles are years behind are systems and server systems and if this was such a great thing Amd would be worth more. Oh yeah and their market for APU's are very small like between the 350-650$ market for laptops.

So? They will be 3-5 times faster than previous consoles, people will buy them, AMD makes profit. Who cares how fast it is? They company will grow with extra income. APU market is anything but small.

so you buy an 8 core and a good overclocking motherboard, disable the 4 cores, add tons of liquid cooling, Overclock to 5 ghz, get lots of power bill, and then you can almost match the performance of a stock 4 core Ivy bridge processor @ 3.4 ghz in some of the benchmarks ?

Worth it to me. 😉

 

[jdwii]

So? They will be 3-5 times faster than previous consoles, people will buy them, AMD makes profit. Who cares how fast it is? They company will grow with extra income. APU market is anything but small.



Worth it to me. 😉

They all ready make the Gpu for the wii and the 360 and their worth 40% less of what they used to be 1.5 years ago, yes this is after they made the APU. They need to really make a unique product in the server market! For example Arm owns the tablet/cell phone market but since its processors are not worth much they are not that wealthy. The server market gives them the most money Amd even knows this, this is why they made bulldozer, and its not that impressive on the server side either....sure its good in Price/Performance but they also take more power to run when compared to their competition which is a bigger issue in the server market.

 

[cgner]

uh huh. So price/performance dont matter, eh. You remind me of all those Intel fanboys who go "zomfg my $320 2600k beats your lame azz $200 1100T in benches by like 10%!!!!" Value is what keeps AMD afloat. Not all of us go right to the top and waste $500 on a cpu just to upgrade it anyways in 3 years. Some want value.

 

[jdwii]

uh huh. So price/performance dont matter, eh. You remind me of all those Intel fanboys who go "zomfg my $320 2600k beats your lame azz $200 1100T in benches by like 10%!!!!" Value is what keeps AMD afloat. Not all of us go right to the top and waste $500 on a cpu just to upgrade it anyways in 3 years. Some want value.

No you don't understand that in 1 year the Amd machine will cost more to run since it uses more power consumption! Seriously customers like you are the reason why their is such bad products.