AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

[Reynod]

We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...

 

[gamerk316]

"AMD Will Push 'Piledriver' Beyond 4GHz Using Resonant Clock Mesh Technology

Saturday, February 25, 2012 - by Paul Lilly


Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) plans to use resonant clock mesh technology developed by Cyclos Semiconductor to push its Piledriver processor line to 4GHz and beyond, the company announced at the International Solid State Circuits Conferences (ISSCC) in San Francisco. Cyclos is the only supplier of resonant clock mesh IP, which AMD has licensed and implemented into its x86 Piledriver core for Opteron server processors and Accelerated Processing Units (APUs).

"We were able to seamlessly integrate the Cyclos IP into our existing clock mesh design process so there was no risk to our development schedule," said Samuel Naffziger, Corporate Fellow at AMD. "Silicon results met our power reduction expectations, we incurred no increase in silicon area, and we were able to use our standard manufacturing process, so the investment and risk in adopting resonant clock mesh technology was well worth it as all of our customers are clamoring for more energy efficient processor designs."




Resonant clock mesh technology will not only lead to higher clocked processors, but also significant power savings. According to Cyclos, the new technology is capable of reducing power consumption by 10 percent or bumping up clockspeeds by 10 percent without altering the TDP. But what exactly is resonant clock mesh technology?

"Cyclos resonant clock mesh technology employs on-chip inductors to create an electric pendulum, or 'tank circuit', formed by the large capacitance of the clock mesh in parallel with the Cyclos inductors," Cyclos explains. "The Cyclos inductors and clock control circuits 'recycle' the clock power instead of dissipating it on every clock cycle like in a clock tree implementation, which results in a reduction in total IC power consumption of up to 10 percent.



Source: design-reuse.com

Cyclos and AMD didn't go into too much detail about Piledriver, though they did say it will consist of a 4GHz+ x86-64 core built on a 32nm CMOS process. For all kinds of geeky details on resonant clock mesh technology, "

source - http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-Will-Push-Piledriver-Beyond-4GHz-Using-Resonant-Clock-Mesh-Technology/

cant we all just get along?

I reserve judgement until after we see how much OC headroom PD gives. In theory, if the base clock is right around 4GHz AND you can OC to the high 4's [at least 4.8] reliably, then PD might actually compete with SB. That being said, its horrid IPC will still kill it in games, and from a heat/power perspective, I can't imagine clocks getting much higher over the years...

 

[fazers_on_stun]

The cheapest 560M I found was around USD$1200 last time I checked.... It has HW DTS output and was the one I wanted, but damn it is expensive to get.

Anyway, the 6620G is not that card's competitor; the 6750M would be the one, I think. Maybe the 6990M, lol.

Maybe with the newer 28nm GPUs coming on the market, the prices on the older ones are dropping. Anyway, Jimmy says his company sells that laptop with the 560M for under $900, so you get a nice 4-core/8-thread SB CPU and the 560M on a 15.6" screen (admittedly only 720P but you can probably get up to 1080 for under $100 more).

I took a quick look at AT's mobile benchies http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/385?vs=327 and found the A8 CPU benchies about 1/3rd of the quad SB CPU benchies - about the same as the difference in GPU performance. Really, really obvious which laptop gets blown into the weeds 😛..

 

[-Fran-]

You selected an SSD based notebook for the Intel, mate... 😛

Cheers!

 

[fazers_on_stun]

You selected an SSD based notebook for the Intel, mate... 😛

Cheers!

Oops, yeah so I did - too 'quick' a look I guess . Pretty limited pickings, but if you go to the CPU benches it's also pretty limited when comparing the A8. Anyway, I'm positive that if the A8 laptop had the SSD instead, it would still lose profoundly to the SB.

 

[-Fran-]

CPU wise, yep. There's hardly a doubt about it; at least, the A8 would have to drain the battery life to come closer or be plugged and be a lil' portable stove.

Anyway, finding Intel offerings which have a good balance in CPU and GPU are quite hard to find at reasonable price points IMO. Like I said, the only competitor in quality, features and price is the N53 series from Asus. Samsung has cheap i5/GT540m lappies (the 400 series I think), but the build quality is hideous; not kidding there.

My reality, here in Chile, is that the A8+8GB+6670M (DV6-6177la, 1080p display) is roughly equal to the i5-4GB+GT540M (1366x768) N53J from Asus (price and spec wise). Both have their strengths, but IMO (totally not benchi-able, lol) is that the A8 has the better offering. It has all the HTPC duty I'd spect from a mid/high notebook (the 560M has the DTS output, not the GT540M) and with an 1080p screen plus the gaming capability of the N53J.

Now, I'm waiting for Asus to step up their game in the K53 series, 'cause HP is gettin' all the Llano affection from me, lol. Brand wise, I love Asus (that's why I got the N53J) and I try to stay away from HP since they have horribad tech support over here in Chile 8(

Cheers!

PS: We're a Spanish colony, lol.

 

[palladin9479]

Oops, yeah so I did - too 'quick' a look I guess . Pretty limited pickings, but if you go to the CPU benches it's also pretty limited when comparing the A8. Anyway, I'm positive that if the A8 laptop had the SSD instead, it would still lose profoundly to the SB.

You do realize that on the pro-Intel benchmark site that the A8 won all the gaming benchmarks. Starcraft II was the only game that favored the Intel CPU.

The only place the I7-2820QM is winning is the synthetics and encoding. The i7 is a SB CPU, the A8 is a Phenom II x4, not hard to guess which will win the CPU department.

Also your comparing the A8-3500M which has been replaced by the 3530 / 3550MX. There is a big difference as the 3500 only supports DDR3-1333 and the MX line supports DDR3-1600. As the 6620G utilizes system memory there is a 5~15% performance increase just from the memory alone.

The reason I hate anandtech "benchmark comparisons" is that their purely user submitted and lack context and detail. I can easily setup a benchmark that shows a BD CPU beating out an I5/I7, all it takes is me playing with a few settings. It wouldn't be realistic, but it would make for great screen shots and posts. For this reason we need context of exactly what's going on, what settings were used and what exactly was the objective of the benchmark. Take something common and innocuous like x264. Me playing with compile and encoder settings can result in it being crippled on the Intel. Normally I assume people are being somewhat honest, but with a place that attempts to sell you on the SB CPU in the beginning of an APU review, there is definitely an agenda involved.

Anyhow, the HP DV6 starts at $550 before discounts. That $550 will get you the A6-3420M and 6GB of memory to go with it. The A8-3550MX is +$70 for a total of $620. So we're talking $620 (before discount) for a A8-3550MX 2.7Ghz quad core APU (6620G), 1366x768 screen (720p) and HDD. You'll get a 25$ discount coupon guaranteed, so we're looking sub $600 for something that will play games and can easily travel. It scales up if you want the 1920 screen (+$150), 7690M (+$75) or the BluRay drive (+$75). So $920 for something that can play video games at 1080p and watch BluRays, add in another $25~50 discount and it's into the sub $900 category.

That is the market the APU is designed for. Sub $1K notebooks and HTPC / Mini-ITX systems.

 

[esrever]

OK, it has the Llano A8 and 6620G graphics. Looking at http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html note that the 6620G ranks #158 on the GPU charts; the 560M used in the laptop I mentioned before ranks #37 with nearly 3X the 3DMark01 score of the 6620G. I won't even bother comparing the 2 CPUs..

Pretty obvious which laptop gets ' blown into the weeds' here 😛..

for the record you linked a laptop with a 540m.

 

[palladin9479]

for the record you linked a laptop with a 540m.

If he had done is homework he'd be comparing it to the IBM IdeaPad Y470p or HP's own DV6t (Intel CPU) series. Before adding a dGPU it's pretty one sided in favor of the APU, if you add a 7690M then it starts to even out with the Intel being more a bit more expensive for the same options.

 

[viridiancrystal]

CPU wise, yep. There's hardly a doubt about it; at least, the A8 would have to drain the battery life to come closer or be plugged and be a lil' portable stove.

Cheers!

Does mobile Llano really draw that much power, or were you talking overclocked?

 

[palladin9479]

Does mobile Llano really draw that much power, or were you talking overclocked?

I don't understand what he's saying, the A8's are actually pretty good on power. Obviously it's work load dependent, but you can surf web for hours on a single charge. Now if you program in some super-Pi or other CPU heavy program and force it to max then I can see it draining power within 2~3 hours. That's a test of the battery the OEM put in it, not the CPU itself.

The APU's all come multiplier unlocked. You can use K10 to set the individual P states for bus clock, multiplier and voltage. You can ever set when it should clock up / down. I've got my GF's 3530MX running @ 2.6Ghz for it's P0 state, it's got no issues at all doing that. Then you undervolt the remaining states to extend battery life. Really flexible CPU.

 

[g4114rd0]

@Yuka, every year on September 18, something to remember.

...according to AMD's 3DMark 06 loop running state, the use of the life of the PD Trinity APU notebook for 3 hours 20 minutes."

 

[esrever]

Does mobile Llano really draw that much power, or were you talking overclocked?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyZjFM9KmUg&feature=related

 

[-Fran-]

Does mobile Llano really draw that much power, or were you talking overclocked?

If you want to get close to the i5/i7 CPU wise, you'll have to OC the hell out of the A8, that's the story I'm telling.

I don't understand what he's saying, the A8's are actually pretty good on power. Obviously it's work load dependent, but you can surf web for hours on a single charge. Now if you program in some super-Pi or other CPU heavy program and force it to max then I can see it draining power within 2~3 hours. That's a test of the battery the OEM put in it, not the CPU itself.

The APU's all come multiplier unlocked. You can use K10 to set the individual P states for bus clock, multiplier and voltage. You can ever set when it should clock up / down. I've got my GF's 3530MX running @ 2.6Ghz for it's P0 state, it's got no issues at all doing that. Then you undervolt the remaining states to extend battery life. Really flexible CPU.

You should make a nice "tweaking your Llano notebook" guide, palladin. You'll make us all A8 owners very happy 😛

Cheers!

 

[palladin9479]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyZjFM9KmUg&feature=related

Damnit lol, youtube is blocked in the office.

 

[palladin9479]

[flash=560,315]http://www.youtube.com/v/eyZjFM9KmUg?version=3&hl=en_US[/flash]

Yeah but I'm bored and wondering what it's says. 12hr shifts are annoying.

 

[palladin9479]

If you want to get close to the i5/i7 CPU wise, you'll have to OC the hell out of the A8, that's the story I'm telling.



You should make a nice "tweaking your Llano notebook" guide, palladin. You'll make us all A8 owners very happy 😛

Cheers!

Ahh you talking about the desktop version of the A8. Yeah their all pretty overclockable, AMD was liberal with the stock vcore settings.

Actually someone's already made a great guide on the A6/A8 APU's. HTWingNut over on notebookreview

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-pavilion-notebooks/639355-definitive-dv6z-llano-overclock-optimization-guide.html

Its for the mobile APU's, don't think the desktop ones have unlocked multipliers. Otherwise most of the info applies.

Here is the link just for how to OC and undervolt the APU using K10.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-pavilion-notebooks/639355-definitive-dv6z-llano-overclock-optimization-guide.html#post8247083

B0 is the "Turbo-Core" setting, it rarely kicks in when you want it to. P0 is the highest "standard" setting. KT went from 1.8Ghz to 2.3Ghz for their P0 which required pushing the voltage up a bit. They then undervolted the lower settings. This allows you to get more performance when you need it, but otherwise it'll reduce power consumption for longer battery life when your not gaming or running bench's.

Also someone upgrading their notebook APU. It's the exact same socket as on the desktop variants.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-pavilion-notebooks/621678-hp-dv6z-a8-3530mx-processor-upgrade.html

This means it's entirely possible to make a mini-ITX board and put a notebook APU inside it for low power HTPC / light-PC duties.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

You do realize that on the pro-Intel benchmark site that the A8 won all the gaming benchmarks. Starcraft II was the only game that favored the Intel CPU.

The only place the I7-2820QM is winning is the synthetics and encoding. The i7 is a SB CPU, the A8 is a Phenom II x4, not hard to guess which will win the CPU department.

Which was exactly what I said: "I took a quick look at AT's mobile benchies http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/385?vs=327 and found the A8 CPU benchies about 1/3rd of the quad SB CPU benchies "

Anyhow, the HP DV6 starts at $550 before discounts. That $550 will get you the A6-3420M and 6GB of memory to go with it. The A8-3550MX is +$70 for a total of $620. So we're talking $620 (before discount) for a A8-3550MX 2.7Ghz quad core APU (6620G), 1366x768 screen (720p) and HDD. You'll get a 25$ discount coupon guaranteed, so we're looking sub $600 for something that will play games and can easily travel. It scales up if you want the 1920 screen (+$150), 7690M (+$75) or the BluRay drive (+$75). So $920 for something that can play video games at 1080p and watch BluRays, add in another $25~50 discount and it's into the sub $900 category.

That is the market the APU is designed for. Sub $1K notebooks and HTPC / Mini-ITX systems.

Hmm, tell me something I don't know 😛. You do realize all this discussion was to rebut Triny's assertion (which he never bothered to back up or even respond to) that an Intel laptop costing "north of $1000" would get "blown into the weeds" by an AMD laptop costing half the price. Those are his criteria and what I used in a 2-second search. It's not worth spending more time than that to refute it, sorry.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

for the record you linked a laptop with a 540m.

Hmm, OK so perhaps the GPU is merely 2X what the 6620G can do 😀.. I think I know which laptop would come out the winner in the gas-powered leaf blower contest 😗

 

[triny]

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1859/7/
History of integrated graphics Intel/AMD since 2006

 

[esrever]

Hmm, OK so perhaps the GPU is merely 2X what the 6620G can do 😀.. I think I know which laptop would come out the winner in the gas-powered leaf blower contest 😗

the 540m is very compatible to the 6620G in terms of performance.

 

[palladin9479]

Had an interesting idea. And low and behold someone already did it.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=20978700#post20978700

Would of went with something a little flatter though.

 

[palladin9479]

the 540m is very compatible to the 6620G in terms of performance.

*Blink* *Blink* .... why are we comparing a IGP to a dGPU again. It's pretty clear a dGPU will (or should) always win, it has it's own dedicated memory for one (lower latency). DDR3-1800 (900x2) vs the DDR3-1333 you'll find in most APU based notebooks (due to OEMs). 540M has 1344MHZ core clock while the 6620G is using a 400~444Mhz clock. And finally, the 540M has it's own HSF cooling option while the 6620G must share with whatever APU it's glued to. That last is the reason it's clock locked at 444Mhz but the bigger desktop APU's have higher GPU clock rates.

Also more anandtech bench's with no mention to what memory or CPU the 6620G was connected to nor the conditions of the test. Just a number attached to a GPU model.

 

[nforce4max]

Ahh you talking about the desktop version of the A8. Yeah their all pretty overclockable, AMD was liberal with the stock vcore settings.

Actually someone's already made a great guide on the A6/A8 APU's. HTWingNut over on notebookreview

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-pavilion-notebooks/639355-definitive-dv6z-llano-overclock-optimization-guide.html

Its for the mobile APU's, don't think the desktop ones have unlocked multipliers. Otherwise most of the info applies.

Here is the link just for how to OC and undervolt the APU using K10.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-pavilion-notebooks/639355-definitive-dv6z-llano-overclock-optimization-guide.html#post8247083

B0 is the "Turbo-Core" setting, it rarely kicks in when you want it to. P0 is the highest "standard" setting. KT went from 1.8Ghz to 2.3Ghz for their P0 which required pushing the voltage up a bit. They then undervolted the lower settings. This allows you to get more performance when you need it, but otherwise it'll reduce power consumption for longer battery life when your not gaming or running bench's.

Also someone upgrading their notebook APU. It's the exact same socket as on the desktop variants.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-pavilion-notebooks/621678-hp-dv6z-a8-3530mx-processor-upgrade.html

This means it's entirely possible to make a mini-ITX board and put a notebook APU inside it for low power HTPC / light-PC duties.

LoL I forgot about my account over there. :lol:

I've done this my self and for those that are wanting to upgrade to ddr3 1600 on the mobile they better be sure to get 1.5v kit instead of the lower voltage kits.

 

[triny]

Had an interesting idea. And low and behold someone already did it.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=20978700#post20978700

Would of went with something a little flatter though.

yeah ,that's a bit too thick ,I was day dreaming about something along these lines


http://xtremetechjunkies.com/2012/02/arctic-announces-mc101-entertainment-center-series/

 

[palladin9479]

yeah ,that's a bit too thick ,I was day dreaming about something along these lines


http://xtremetechjunkies.com/2012/02/arctic-announces-mc101-entertainment-center-series/

They have others, this one looks really flat.

http://www.streacom.com/products/fc5-od-fanless-chassis/

Has a nice white variant if that compliments your Home Theater look.

IMO this is what the desktop APU's were really designed for. A dGPU would make almost no sense in that design and the APU clearly crush's the competition without a dGPU.