AMD Radeon HD 6870 And 6850: Is Barts A Step Forward?

[cleeve]

[citation][nom]mattmock[/nom]There is a typo in the Just Cause 2 2560x1600 graph. The Radeon 5850 bar is labeled 23.4 instead of (probably) 33.4.[/citation]

Should be 32.6, actually. good catch! will fix soon.

 

[Proximon]

Thanks Cleeve, I get it now Doesn't look like it was just TH either. Seeing signs at other sites. Somehow, I figured this was going to be quite a battle, and it's not over yet either. We'll see more heavy competition before the end of the year.

 

[turelpld]

It’s obvious that when Shakespeare penned this famous quip, he was foretelling the arrival of AMD’s Radeon HD 6800-series cards. Wherefore art thou, Radeon 6700?

"Wherefore" means why, not where. Think about it, why would Juliet be saying "where are you, Romeo", if she already knew where he was? She was saying, "Why are you, a Capulet"

The whole quote is

O Romeo, Romeo! wherefore art thou Romeo?
Deny thy father and refuse thy name;
Or, if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love,
And I'll no longer be a Capulet.

 

[gaborbarla]

These cards feel like what the 8800GT 256bit was vs the 8800GTX. It was cheaper to make yet opened up a new era in graphics quality for everyone.
I don't like the naming too much but as long as the price is low enough I dont mind too much. This is good news.

Looks like the will have to come up with a new naming convention for their cards for the 7 series.

 

[Chewie]

While they look like good cards for the money, the naming definitely sucks. These cards should, imho, be called the 6770 and 6750.

 

[cleeve]

[citation][nom]turelpld[/nom]"Wherefore" means why, not where. [/citation]

Thanks turelpld, but I was kind of taking artistic liberties to make the quotes fit my needs. I wasn't really going for literary accuracy.

I think Shakespeare would have approved, actually.

 

[punnar]

Gasp... I feel like a little kid and X-Mass is here. =P Way to go AMD.

 

[Tamz_msc]

So the 6800 Series is only to only to compete with NVIDIA in terms of price?
Why did AMD need to launch a new series when they could have done the same by lowering the prices of the current cards?

 

[damasvara]

[citation][nom]Cleeve[/nom]Kicking and screaming... that might be a little over the top, but yeah, if you mean we sound like we're pretty tired of getting constant calls from PR staff trying to convince us that everything is changing at the last minute, and that what everyone else is saying is wrong.Yeah, we're tired of that. But the conclusion? the conclusion is inevitable, it's where the data leads. Certainly happy to get there, just unhappy with the way we were pushed around on the way.[/citation]
Must be hard with all the pressure pre and post review article launch.

I personally think you're doing a good job at Tom's, with all that "must do this", "must be accurate", "must be neutral", and "must not have typos" :lol: expectations. Yet still have some sense of humor. I'd be stressed out if I were to be in your shoes.

You have my sympathy and salute, Sir.

Great article, BTW.

 

[demonhorde665]

thugh they are getting confusing with teh naming , i'm intriqued by teh 6850 i noticed in every benchmark it was behidn teh 5850 and ahead of the 5830 yet cost much clsoer to waht eh 5770 costed when it first came out, bassicaly ti is getting near 5850 performance for alot less money than a 5850 , sounds liek it wil be the one i would grap but first i'd like to see benches next to a 5770 since i already got a 5770

 

[techguy378]

Bart sounds like a Fart.

 

[cleeve]

[citation][nom]damasvara[/nom]You have my sympathy and salute, Sir. Great article, BTW.[/citation]

I accept your gracious praise and salute you in return, sir!

 

[The_Trutherizer]

I don't know if anybody remembers that song about the little boxes made of ticky-tacky. But here goes... haha

NVidia: There's a high end and a low end, a fast one and a slower one. And their all made out of silicon and they all look quite the same.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

I like that the two of you are working on the reviews together, and interested in the new official titles. [:jaydeejohn:5]

Haven't read far into the review yet (will wait 'til work now since I just got in for the night) but the thing that made me stop and say 'this can wait' is the focus on the naming scheme. [:fisshy:2]

Why so many pixels wasted on that? Seriously?

I looked over the 2 preview-vapor-views of the GF100, and the final actual card review of the GTX480 and never once was the Gxx300 series numbering skip mentioned in anywhere near the same detail.

And how does this differ so significantly from the HD3870 launch or GF9800 launch (did the top card GF9800GTX really match the GF8800Ultra? at the high end), to require this much effort on an explanation or exposition?

For the amount of time and ease we already spent in the forums explaining it to the people incapable of understanding numbering it's very simple: Generation : Class withing Generation : SubClass

So returning the the X1800 / 1900 style separation, with less of a tick-tock, this above middle class card fits if you look at the entire line-up.

69xx Caymen
6800 Barts.
...

The pricing will give people an indication of where these things match up, and if not... the Google. C'mon, don't promote the idea of the ignorant needing to be considered at every FAQin' stage of the equation. Seriously you spend $200 without researching your purchase then you either have enough money to err, or you're too st00pid to deserve sympathy. Better warn people about those 7xxx and 8xxx PCI and AGP cards at Best Buy not being faster than these cards despite the numbers.

Really disappointed you guys got sucked into that aspect of this launch considering all the other naming issues in the past, and the guaranteed equal if not worse GTX580 coming.

I said it in the past, I'll say it again, anyone having grave issues with the numbering schemes should by a console and simply give up on ever being a game if they can type those #s into Google. The numbering from all the IHVs are meant to start to give some more indication than a naming scheme (the AMD Fajita vs the Chalupa vs the Gordita, which is spicier.. err... faster !!) and to equate this to the previous ones, let alone the rebranding habit simply reinforces the idea that people can't think in another way than linear, which is a dumbing down to the lowest common denominator. You even bothering to comment on the "..ill-informed Radeon HD 5870 owner.." leaves me with no more sympathy than the Quad-Fire/Tri-SLi owner wondering why their performance didn't improve dramatically on a P4 or @ 1280x1024. Seriously, someone who spent ~$400 on their previous card needs hand-holding in this review when this card comes out? [:thegreatgrapeape:5]

Hopefully the read improves in the following pages, but that opener was a HUGE turn off to read any further, versus even posting a comment instead. Maybe the two of you shoulda changed your numbering scheme too and made that the last page comments and not your opening page comment, for those of us who still judge a book by it's cover.

I wonder how anyone ever figures out what BMW to buy with all those confusing similar numbers to chose from.

Anywhoo, that may be harsh, and I am glad to see you guys working together, I'm just not happy with the obvious target market for the new reviews which is obviously not meant for those who used to read THG.

 

[cleeve]

[citation][nom]TheGreatGrapeApe[/nom] Why so many pixels wasted on that? Seriously?[/citation]

Because we believe that editorial flavor like that is interesting to people.

While the raw data is key, it's an interesting bit to talk about and so we went with it. And to be frank, I am bothered at the thought that some poor schmuck with a 5870 may very well go out and buy himself a 6870 assuming it's better. It's a fair assumption I think, and the decision to abandon the naming scheme doesn't have proper justification.

That's it thoguh, not much more to it than that. Just a little hook to spice up a story full of a lot of dry numbers.

Sorry it rubbed you the wrong way, Ape.

 

[JonnyDough]

Can someone compare the 6850 to a 4850 in a game that is heavy on shaders please? If 5850 was slower than 4850, and 6850 is slower than 5850...how much faster is the 4850 than the 6850?

 

[cleeve]

[citation][nom]JonnyDough[/nom]Can someone compare the 6850 to a 4850 in a game that is heavy on shaders please? If 5850 was slower than 4850, and 6850 is slower than 5850...how much faster is the 4850 than the 6850?[/citation]

The 5850 is a lot faster than the 4850.

6870 >= 5850 > 4850

 

[ferelden]

so i dont get it, which is actually better the radeon 5850 or the radeon 6870

 

[unknown_13]

Can wait for the next 2-3 driver releases, they should improve the performance. Well done, AMD.

And BTW the 5850 is much faster then the 4850, and the 6850 is somewhat slower than the 5850, but the performance should improve with next driver releases. But don't forget that the 6850 is priced at 180$, while the 5850 is around 250$.

So 6850 is a better price/performance pick.

 

[ferelden]

the article says the 6870 can barely overclock, so would a 5850 overclocked be better than 6870?

 

[kikireeki]

How about 6820/6840 instead of this mess ATI?

 

[iam2thecrowe]

ok, now i have finished thumbs downing everyone who complained about the naming convention. It will only confuse stupid people that didnt look into what they were buying and that arent going to be able to tell the difference in the real world anyway. Its similar to a 3ghz p4 being slower than a 2ghz core 2 duo "its 3ghz! how come its not faster", or a car with a V8 that is slower than a turbo 4 cyl "omg bro, my fully sick V8 got beaten by a lil jap car". THUMBS DOWN TO YOU!

 

[compton]

My brain is having a hard time digesting the bad mexican food that is the AMD naming system. But I like what their doing. I thought we'd see a card that can really take the fight to the excellent 460, and that's kinda what we have. I've been waiting to see if prices would drop like a drunk sorority girl's panties... and it looks like its party time. I'm glad I waited. Regardless of whether I go nVidia or AMD, at least I'll be getting a good deal on my new card.

 

[peteyfro87]

While I understand and sympathise that every reviewer is tired of Crysis, (Oh No! not that word again). it is the one game that most people have watched as it made their gaming rig weep so it is still a valid benchmark and of interest to a lot of people.

I managed to get mine down to 4 pretty pictures a second... (Just as an experiment to take a screenshot, you understand?)

Can I also just say what a brilliant article... I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Loved the informative style mixed with humour. Good work.

 

[iam2thecrowe]

if you guys really thing the average joe will get confused because of the naming, then its not because its called 6870 instead of 6770 (or whatever you think would best suit), just the fact that it has a 6 in front of it people may get confused that they are not the fastest card out.... So AMD will just have to create decimal places between the models so dumb ass people know exactly where they fit in on the performance scale...we will end up with a HD5778.3451 if you all had your way.