Review AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review: New Gaming Champ Beats Pricier CPUs

[Ogotai]

Might get fried the second you boot it up the first time...
(if you upgrade from a different CPU and the bios settings are not extremely strickt set for the x3d chip)

thats what you said, so i replied with :

sorry terry, but the times i have done cpu swaps, on intel OR amd, the bios is usually reset when i 1st turn the comp on after switching cpus. i cant remember the wording on the screen, but it then says to enter the bios and load defaults, or adjust things, something to that effect.

and then you replied :

Oh?! You booted up the mobo without the new CPU being installed?! And it reset the settings without an CPU?

this is what YOU said, and i replied accordingly. YOU implied i booted up the comp with out the new cpu in it, and then further implied i didnt have a cpu in AT ALL !!

also, it seems the bug is with windows SOFTWARE, not BIOS, which the link you posts shows so that your are implying, seems to be misinformation

again, twisting things around to fit YOUR view.

 

[dalauder]

Wow, this really got out of hand fast. There were horses, and a man on fire. Brick killed a guy with a trident!

 

[helper800]

Wow, this really got out of hand fast. There were horses, and a man on fire. Brick killed a guy with a trident!

Where is Brick's laser rifle?

 

[alceryes]

Stop with the 7950X throttling nonsense, 7950X doesn't throttle at peak temp; AMD designed the chip to go as high as 95 Celsius and operate at that temperature. This is not a throttling point but a thermal target. You simply don't understand how Zen4 works or choose to ignore it because your employers at Intel wouldn't look kindly at that.
Techpowerup put the 7950X through rigorous thermal testing and found the CPU to perform great even with handicapped air cooling measures.

Agreed. I think one of the issues is that average users read reviews from enthusiasts and overclockers and think that it applies to them.
My 7950X nets me 38600+ on Cinebench R23 nT. I'm also on the Time Spy score leaderboard for CPU scores for the 7950X.

Oh, here's my rig with its exotic CPU cooling -

https://imgur.com/a/LGWBqBV

View: https://imgur.com/a/LGWBqBV

 

[TerryLaze]

What's interesting is that even coolers which don't reach the throttling temp still have trouble unleashing the CPU to its full potential. From the same article:

The $20 Assassin 120 R SE sustained 5055MHz (an increase of 333MHz) with the CPU consuming an average of 245W.

The 13900k is a 253W max turbo power CPU and a $20 cooler is capable of running it at 245W and at 5055Mhz all core...

Yes the better the cooler the better the result...on intel at least.

 

[carpdan]

Hello,

Can someone please explain to me why the 7900X3D is slower than 7800X3D? I understand that it's way too expensive and that it doesn't make as much sense from a price/performance standpoint, but the fact that it's performing worse than a CPU with less cores, lower frequency and less Cache makes no sense to me.

Thanks!

 

[TerryLaze]

Hello,

Can someone please explain to me why the 7900X3D is slower than 7800X3D? I understand that it's way too expensive and that it doesn't make as much sense from a price/performance standpoint, but the fact that it's performing worse than a CPU with less cores, lower frequency and less Cache makes no sense to me.

Thanks!

Show the bench your comment is based on because in general it will not be slower, it might be slower in some things.

 

[carpdan]

Well, it's all over this review. See page 4, for example, the Average values for the entire test suite, 7800X3D is better than 7900X3D.

It's under for Cyberpunk 2077 and Microsoft Flight Simulator 2021 but over for Far Cry 6 and F1 2021, Hitman 3, Red Dead Redemption 2, Warhammer 3, Watch Dogs Legion and all the "Extra Ryzen 7 7800X3D 1080p Game Benchmarks".

It loses out for productivity, but that's not a surprise. These gaming results tho, are!

 

[bit_user]

Can someone please explain to me why the 7900X3D is slower than 7800X3D?

We can start with the compute dies being different. One with extra cache and the other with extra frequency. If the work being done by the app isn't optimally split between them, then you can get a worse result than the 5800X3D, where there's only one compute die which has both the extra cache and frequency penalty.

the fact that it's performing worse than a CPU with less cores, lower frequency and less Cache makes no sense to me.

I have a couple of points about this:

1. I believe the L3 cache is semi-partitioned, in the multi-die models. I think each compute die can write to its own local L3, but read globally. So, when you take the top-line number of the total L3 cache on the 7900X3D, it's a bigger number, but you have to remember that what really matters is how much L3 each compute die has: 96 MB + 32 MB.
2. Sometimes, extra cores don't help. Games only have a certain amount of work to do, per frame. Splitting that up between cores adds certain difficulty and complexity, so you don't get full loading of all the cores. Once a CPU has enough cores for how a game is threaded, then additional ones don't necessarily help.
3. Having multiple compute dies can introduce overhead, if you're running software with threads that do heavy communication and they get assigned to different dies. This can lead to data ping-ponging back and forth, between the compute dies, and it bogs down those threads when it happens.

There are certain things app developers and OS developers can do to try and tackle or mitigate these issues of asymmetric compute dies, but it doesn't have a perfect solution. Over time, we might see the typical game perform better on CPUs like the 7900X3D (or, at least close some of the gap vs. the 7800X3D), but it's always going to be a little tricky and require a little more thought and planning by developers.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Craig234]

So, it's 'the fastest gaming GPU money can buy'...

But when paired with a 4090.

This review by PC Magazine is much more negative, testing it with a 3080, finding it's not as fast but more expensive than many CPUs, and give it 3/5 stars...

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review

With ho-hum CPU performance for the money, AMD's gaming-minded Ryzen 7 7800X3D is a tough sell as a mainstream CPU, given that its strengths will benefit only a small sliver of gamers.

www.pcmag.com

 

[bit_user]

So, it's 'the fastest gaming GPU money can buy'...

But when paired with a 4090.

This review by PC Magazine is much more negative, testing it with a 3080, finding it's not as fast but more expensive than many CPUs, and give it 3/5 stars...

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review

With ho-hum CPU performance for the money, AMD's gaming-minded Ryzen 7 7800X3D is a tough sell as a mainstream CPU, given that its strengths will benefit only a small sliver of gamers.

www.pcmag.com

I guess you mean "the fastest gaming CPU money can buy.

I think PC Mag's review is a bit off the mark. Should've used either a RTX 3090 or a RTX 4080, at least.

Moreover, their selection of 6 games don't seem to be ones that are terribly CPU-bound, which is another way to bias a review against a faster CPU. Given how varied the benefit of the extra cache is, across different game titles, you really need a wider selection of games to see the big picture. Tech Power Up tested both more titles and ones that are more CPU-bound, and even though they also used a RTX 3080, came to a different conclusion.

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review - The Magic of 3D V-Cache

The AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D is the company's new flagship gaming processor. It introduces 3D V-Cache, a dedicated piece of silicon with additional L3 capacity. In our review, we're testing how much the larger cache can help intensive gaming workloads and applications and compare it to the Intel Core...

www.techpowerup.com

The other thing about PC Magazine is that it's not a gaming-oriented site. So, of course they're going to focus more non-gaming performance.

 

[LordVile]

I’m sticking with my 5800X3D until it literally cannot run anything anymore. Might just skip over AM5 completely if I’m able to.

 

[bit_user]

Might just skip over AM5 completely if I’m able to.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think a lot of people have taken a position on AM5 somewhat prematurely. I think it's going to age rather well.

BTW, Zen 5 is said to use TSMC N3E, which is a full node beyond the N5 node used for Zen 4. If we look at the span of Zen 1 to Zen 3, there's only about 1.25 nodes worth of difference (the N7 node used by 3000 XT and 5000-series is slightly better than the N7 originally used for Zen 2). I think Zen 5 is going to be pretty good and will feature their 3rd gen 3D V-cache. I think that experience is going to count for something.

 

[LordVile]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think a lot of people have taken a position on AM5 somewhat prematurely. I think it's going to age rather well.

BTW, Zen 5 is said to use TSMC N3E, which is a full node beyond the N5 node used for Zen 4. If we look at the span of Zen 1 to Zen 3, there's only about 1.25 nodes worth of difference (the N7 node used by 3000 XT and 5000-series is slightly better than the N7 originally used for Zen 2). I think Zen 5 is going to be pretty good and will feature their 3rd gen 3D V-cache. I think that experience is going to count for something.

Doesn’t really matter if it ages well or not though, I personally don’t need any more performance and won’t be CPU limited without a massive upgrade. By the time I’m after a platform upgrade I might just as well buy a whole new PC as my PSU will be getting old and I’ll be swapping the AIO as that will also be old, might get a new case too

 

[bit_user]

I personally don’t need any more performance and won’t be GPU limited without a massive upgrade.

I think you mean CPU-limited. If your bottleneck is currently your GPU, then upgrading your CPU makes no sense. You'd only want to do that after upgrading to a GPU fast enough to make your CPU the bottleneck.

 

[LordVile]

I think you mean CPU-limited. If your bottleneck is currently your GPU, then upgrading your CPU makes no sense. You'd only want to do that after upgrading to a GPU fast enough to make your CPU the bottleneck.

Typo

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

I think the biggest thing to remember, and I'll use Techpowerup's chart because TH doesn't include past generation processors in theirs, and I'll use 2560x1440 as 4K is too GPU limited even with a 4090 to show a real CPU difference, is that unless you set your definition of "bottlenecked" as "2560x1440 240fps", you don't need a CPU that may self-destruct.

 

[SunMaster]

you don't need a CPU that may self-destruct.

Which CPU would that be?

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

Which CPU would that be?

The 7000X3D chips.

 

[SunMaster]

The 7000X3D chips.

They don’t. They die from being overvolted by the motherboard.

 

[TerryLaze]

They don’t. They die from being overvolted by the motherboard.

They are not being overvolted though, they get the same amount of Volts that every other CPU on the platform also gets without exploding.
AMD released them onto a platform that has too high V levels for this CPU, and AMDs solution as always is to scramble to hide the fact they screwed up by only giving out the correct Volts limit after the fact, forcing everybody to lower these levels.

It's like the ryzen 3000 series where only a very small amount of CPUs where hitting their single core clocks and after being called out by derbauer all they did was to change the agesa to boost to their stated clocks for a split second during completely idle times just so that it gets picked up by benchmark runs.

 

[SunMaster]

They are not being overvolted though, they get the same amount of Volts that every other CPU on the platform also gets without exploding.
AMD released them onto a platform that has too high V levels for this CPU, and AMDs solution as always is to scramble to hide the fact they screwed up by only giving out the correct Volts limit after the fact, forcing everybody to lower these levels.

It's like the ryzen 3000 series where only a very small amount of CPUs where hitting their single core clocks and after being called out by derbauer all they did was to change the agesa to boost to their stated clocks for a split second during completely idle times just so that it gets picked up by benchmark runs.

Isn't it fun when you can make up your own facts. AM5 has as a platform too high volt levels? Now where is the facts that would back up something like that?

 

[TerryLaze]

Isn't it fun when you can make up your own facts. AM5 has as a platform too high volt levels? Now where is the facts that would back up something like that?

The facts is that no other CPU was blowing up before now.

 

[SunMaster]

The facts is that no other CPU was blowing up before now.

Yeah, that's a fact. The making up your own fact is your explanation as to why it happens.

 

[bit_user]

They are not being overvolted though, they get the same amount of Volts that every other CPU on the platform also gets without exploding.

This indictment needs to be weighted by how common it really is. So, please tell us roughly how many X3D CPUs have failed due to this problem.

A funny thing about human risk perception is that it's skewed by the severity of the outcome. If 0.01% of CPUs fail in a way that sounds violent or dramatic, people are much more fearful of it than if there were the same probability of failure by simply refusing to boot. That underscores the need to keep the actual rate of these failures in perspective.