Discussion AMD Ryzen MegaThread! FAQ and Resources

[PistolPaul]

Searching around and just trying to get clarification on something to do with XFR and the various clocking Ryzen will do.

Today we are learning that for example the 1800x will run at ;

A base speed of 3.6 GHz - boosting to 4.0 GHz depending on workload presumably -

Then working up to 4.1 GHz with XFR

My query is - if you were to OC this CPU - raising the base speed - is boosting an added function to your new base speed or not. AND is XFR tied to operating only within the 4.0-4.1 GHz range or will Ryzen seek that 0.1GHz extra over whatever new top speed you achieve via OC?

Just wondering!

 

[juanrga]

Juan. if this is true, is it still ~Sandy Bridge IPC correct right?
(I'm not sure how to math this, but if we use Athlon X4 Cinebench R10 - Single Threaded Benchmark, 4265. 4265 *1.52,=6482.2) So that's barely above Sandy Bridge if I assume 52 percent is the MINIMUM.

Now, if I take that the 1800 (flagship 8c, 16t) =95% of the 6900k (Cinebench R10 - Multi-Threaded Benchmark)
48835*0.95=~46393.25.
46393.25/6482.2=7.51
Does that mean that Ryzen was significantly higher IPC than ~>52%?

Please feel free to point out any errors, math is not my strongest subject, (and I am not sure how most of you calculate baselines).
N.b Someone show me how clock speeds affect IPC please

It depends on the benchmark used. If we take CB15 single thread then

74.60 * 1.52 = 113.4

which is between Ivy and Haswell, and only 5% above Sandy.

For CB multithread one has to add the gains from SMT.

 

[juanrga]

Asus is faltering in the bang/buck department, although if I can get Sonic Radar at a good price (unlikely, as it's a ROG feature), that may win out.
I'm not sure I'm ready to drop $400 on a CPU, but Ryzen may really be the case where "moar cores!!!" will be worthwhile, so I don't think I'll be going below the 1500.

I'm somewhat partial to Gigabyte and Asus boards. I've not had either have one go out on me. And for OC'ing, I do like Asus on their higher end boards. My Xeon X3470 (which may be replaced by a Ryzen setup) is going along fairly happily at 4.2ghz on a P7F7-E WS motherboard. Well, maybe not completely happily as stock speed is 2.9ghz. But it doesn't twitch at all.

As for the 'moar cores', that IS part of the advantage of the Ryzen equation. They don't quite have the IPC up to snuff - Intel has them beat on that. BUT - their core counts make up for that deficit in spades, and it's bolstered immensely by the price/core side of things. The cores are quick enough, and they're pricing them VERY aggressively. IMHO if you don't buy at least a hex-core, you should just stick with Intel since they have a higher IPC per core. But once you get past the quad core into hex core territory, the Ryzen chips will be the much better buy.

I'm not sure I'd agree on that- if the leaks are true you have choice of 4 real cores vs 2 core + smt on the low end... and then 4 core + smt vs 4 core without on the mid range. Given the performance is so close I'd still argue I'd rather have a true quad over the i3 (although I admit that the i3 copes remarkably well as a gaming chip). I guess that position does depend on the benchmarks of course, however based on what we've seen so far I'm fairly happy the Ryzen R3 should be ahead of an i3 due to 4 full cores (with turbo) vs 2...

I agree its not that big of a difference now if the leaks are true and i'm sure they are at this point. 10-15% more IPC isn't worth getting when you get half the amount of cores. That is coming from a person who would take a I3 skylake-haswell over a 8 core fx for my gaming.

It gets complicated when you think that the 1800X matched the i7 6900k on a heavily-threaded benchmark. It means that yes, Ryzen has lower IPC, but when threads are on use, the AMD can scale as well as an Intel. So, I'd say the R3 is always a better choice over the i3. And that's coming from a person who would take an 8-core FX over an i3 for everything else, and stick to adequate 60-fps gaming.

Videocardz.com leaked the official cinebench results. AMD was sandbagging the 1800X the whole time. All the chips they showed were the 1700X. The 1800X matches the 6900K in ST and blows the doors off in multithread by 150 points.

https://videocardz.com/66216/firefly-was-a-great-show

The numbers for the 6900k in that slide are a bit strange

Juan Anandtech uses a water cooler in their 6900k reviews, AMD uses stock 140w Intel cooler, if you were to water cool the 1800x what score would it get?

IF Anandtech used a watter cooler for the 6900k and AMD uses the stock air cooler for the 6900k, then WHY Anandtech got 153 score, whereas AMD got a higher score of 162?

 

[wh3resmycar]

so march for the R7s. anybody know when the R5s gonna hit?

 

[TechyInAZ]

so march for the R7s. anybody know when the R5s gonna hit?

Nope. I was kinda bummed that all they showed was the R7s. I still wonder when R5s are gona come.

 

[James Mason]

Probably announced/shown mid-to-late march or early april, and sold late april or early may.

 

[jaymc]

Thats great idea, an we can see what everyone is able to overclock to and what cooling is being used. Also which chips are giving the best results/speeds

 

[jaymc]

Asus is faltering in the bang/buck department, although if I can get Sonic Radar at a good price (unlikely, as it's a ROG feature), that may win out.
I'm not sure I'm ready to drop $400 on a CPU, but Ryzen may really be the case where "moar cores!!!" will be worthwhile, so I don't think I'll be going below the 1500.

I'm somewhat partial to Gigabyte and Asus boards. I've not had either have one go out on me. And for OC'ing, I do like Asus on their higher end boards. My Xeon X3470 (which may be replaced by a Ryzen setup) is going along fairly happily at 4.2ghz on a P7F7-E WS motherboard. Well, maybe not completely happily as stock speed is 2.9ghz. But it doesn't twitch at all.

As for the 'moar cores', that IS part of the advantage of the Ryzen equation. They don't quite have the IPC up to snuff - Intel has them beat on that. BUT - their core counts make up for that deficit in spades, and it's bolstered immensely by the price/core side of things. The cores are quick enough, and they're pricing them VERY aggressively. IMHO if you don't buy at least a hex-core, you should just stick with Intel since they have a higher IPC per core. But once you get past the quad core into hex core territory, the Ryzen chips will be the much better buy.

I'm not sure I'd agree on that- if the leaks are true you have choice of 4 real cores vs 2 core + smt on the low end... and then 4 core + smt vs 4 core without on the mid range. Given the performance is so close I'd still argue I'd rather have a true quad over the i3 (although I admit that the i3 copes remarkably well as a gaming chip). I guess that position does depend on the benchmarks of course, however based on what we've seen so far I'm fairly happy the Ryzen R3 should be ahead of an i3 due to 4 full cores (with turbo) vs 2...

I agree its not that big of a difference now if the leaks are true and i'm sure they are at this point. 10-15% more IPC isn't worth getting when you get half the amount of cores. That is coming from a person who would take a I3 skylake-haswell over a 8 core fx for my gaming.

It gets complicated when you think that the 1800X matched the i7 6900k on a heavily-threaded benchmark. It means that yes, Ryzen has lower IPC, but when threads are on use, the AMD can scale as well as an Intel. So, I'd say the R3 is always a better choice over the i3. And that's coming from a person who would take an 8-core FX over an i3 for everything else, and stick to adequate 60-fps gaming.

Videocardz.com leaked the official cinebench results. AMD was sandbagging the 1800X the whole time. All the chips they showed were the 1700X. The 1800X matches the 6900K in ST and blows the doors off in multithread by 150 points.

https://videocardz.com/66216/firefly-was-a-great-show

The numbers for the 6900k in that slide are a bit strange

Juan Anandtech uses a water cooler in their 6900k reviews, AMD uses stock 140w Intel cooler, if you were to water cool the 1800x what score would it get?

IF Anandtech used a watter cooler for the 6900k and AMD uses the stock air cooler for the 6900k, then WHY Anandtech got 153 score, whereas AMD got a higher score of 162?

should it not be the same score regardless of what type of cooling is being used. testing IPC not clock speed. !

edit:
would different types/speed ram or MB or benchmark build or even os build account for different reults in IPC ??

Also if it was the other way round an AMD where reporting lower IPC than Anand did there would be blue murder goin on right now on the forums.. but I guess either AMD are giving intel too much credit (doubtfull) or anandtech got the 6900k IPC a little too low....

Or maybe later build on the bench marking suite taking advantage of more instruction sets on the CPU could account for a better IPC score since then..

 

[thegentlewoman]

Since all the info about Ryzen hosting Motherboards are out and they say 2666 mhz up is the frequency received.
What will be, I am not sayin the optimal choice for Ram, but if I buy 3600 mhz or 3200 are they wasted?
I know for precise answer we will need testing and so on, but how does it really work (I mean anybody knows that is the Motherboard "bus" and "reception" of 2666 mhz ddr4 RAM? thanks.

I am talking about x370 Mobos.

 

[James Mason]

Eh, from what I know of Intel the also say that like ram speeds above 3200 aren't useful.

Well... Irregardless higher ram speeds are rarely beneficial for their cost.

 

[juanrga]

so march for the R7s. anybody know when the R5s gonna hit?

Nope. I was kinda bummed that all they showed was the R7s. I still wonder when R5s are gona come.

The last leak was 8-core first [strike]and rest of chips one month latter.[/strike]

EDIT: it seems confirmed that R5 comes in Q2 And R3 in second half of this year.

 

[juanrga]

Since all the info about Ryzen hosting Motherboards are out and they say 2666 mhz up is the frequency received.
What will be, I am not sayin the optimal choice for Ram, but if I buy 3600 mhz or 3200 are they wasted?
I know for precise answer we will need testing and so on, but how does it really work (I mean anybody knows that is the Motherboard "bus" and "reception" of 2666 mhz ddr4 RAM? thanks.

I am talking about x370 Mobos.

Wait to reviews, but last leaks said that Ryzen scales up well up to 3600MHz, with near 50GB/s writes on AIDA64.

 

[WailingDoom]

[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl7G1aYHvbg"][/video]

 

[jaymc]

lol....

 

[8350rocks]

Since all the info about Ryzen hosting Motherboards are out and they say 2666 mhz up is the frequency received.
What will be, I am not sayin the optimal choice for Ram, but if I buy 3600 mhz or 3200 are they wasted?
I know for precise answer we will need testing and so on, but how does it really work (I mean anybody knows that is the Motherboard "bus" and "reception" of 2666 mhz ddr4 RAM? thanks.

I am talking about x370 Mobos.

AMP/XMP is supported up to 3200 MHz from most board manufacturers that I have seen. I bought DDR4-3000 for my build because the value was too good compared to the DDR4-2400 prices. Only $15 more got much higher speed RAM.

 

[cdrkf]

Since all the info about Ryzen hosting Motherboards are out and they say 2666 mhz up is the frequency received.
What will be, I am not sayin the optimal choice for Ram, but if I buy 3600 mhz or 3200 are they wasted?
I know for precise answer we will need testing and so on, but how does it really work (I mean anybody knows that is the Motherboard "bus" and "reception" of 2666 mhz ddr4 RAM? thanks.

I am talking about x370 Mobos.

AMP/XMP is supported up to 3200 MHz from most board manufacturers that I have seen. I bought DDR4-3000 for my build because the value was too good compared to the DDR4-2400 prices. Only $15 more got much higher speed RAM.

Yeah each ram generation there is usually a sweet spot- when DDR3 came out DDR3 1600 was always cheaper than 1333 in my experience, despite being faster. More recently 1866 was probably a better option.

 

[jaymc]

Have question about the security in Naples... SEV, SME & AES... have two articles contradicting each other... one is off yibada and say's it could easily be hacked:

http://en.yibada.com/articles/178396/20161212/amd-zen-sev-secure-according-security-experts.htm

The other is off wcccfffttt... whatever and say's it's genius something intel quite simply hasn't got.. actual ram in the server is encrypted an the key to decode is stored on the server in question (prevents ram being hacked or even stolen from the machine, certain types of ram hold there info even with no power.. ie solid state I suppose) this apparently is something Intel has nothing to compete with it an will be very useful in this new cloud computin age...

http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-encryption-sme-sev-hw-based-sha/

I'm interested to hear peoples thoughts on this as I think this will give AMD a major edge in the server market, if it does what it says on the tin that is.??

Jay

 

[thegentlewoman]

Thanks for the suggestions and info. Interesting this Sweet spot (Price thing).
I know you maybe already know, I know you guys don't care abt Europe I guess, but some of us come here from EU to inform emselves since it's easier with you ppl to talk (at least for me). So here you get this danish norge german web site with all the prices, and I have to say, it must be a preorder no taxes, but they look lower then I expected, (I thought 329$ would be minimum 350 Euro i.e.) : https://www.proshop.dk/Bundkort/ASUS-CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO-Bundkort-AMD-X370-AMD-AM4-socket-DDR4-RAM-ATX-/2582449 (if you write in search box Ryzen Amd) check all that comes out, your eyes will smile

Just a noob question again: Of course I can't talk earlier then reviews: they might say this tuff is 0, they might say "hey get the 2666 if you don't wanna have a mess etc... but, What does it mean on these RAMS CL 14 CL 15 , 16 19 ... It's the CAS latiency .. but will review tell us what is the best CAS to take for x370 with 1700 Ryzen or we actually already can tell CL 15 is ok as CL 16 etc? can you please "educate" me about this?
Thx.

I just have good prices I think in my hands and that's why I am a little pressuring. (I don't think RAM will go lower then now like 135 dollars for 16gb 2x8) 3200mhz... and that's why I am interested to know more things abt PC (as you see) than on specifically Am4 ryzen compatible x370 and the ram slots.

 

[nikoli707]

for the love of god, can we get a 4.1ghz run on a single thread. is that hard enough for anybody with a ryzen chip to do?

 

[ScrewySqrl]

Thanks for the suggestions and info. Interesting this Sweet spot (Price thing).
I know you maybe already know, I know you guys don't care abt Europe I guess, but some of us come here from EU to inform emselves since it's easier with you ppl to talk (at least for me). So here you get this danish norge german web site with all the prices, and I have to say, it must be a preorder no taxes, but they look lower then I expected, (I thought 329$ would be minimum 350 Euro i.e.) : https://www.proshop.dk/Bundkort/ASUS-CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO-Bundkort-AMD-X370-AMD-AM4-socket-DDR4-RAM-ATX-/2582449 (if you write in search box Ryzen Amd) check all that comes out, your eyes will smile

Just a noob question again: Of course I can't talk earlier then reviews: they might say this tuff is 0, they might say "hey get the 2666 if you don't wanna have a mess etc... but, What does it mean on these RAMS CL 14 CL 15 , 16 19 ... It's the CAS latiency .. but will review tell us what is the best CAS to take for x370 with 1700 Ryzen or we actually already can tell CL 15 is ok as CL 16 etc? can you please "educate" me about this?
Thx.

I just have good prices I think in my hands and that's why I am a little pressuring. (I don't think RAM will go lower then now like 135 dollars for 16gb 2x8) 3200mhz... and that's why I am interested to know more things abt PC (as you see) than on specifically Am4 ryzen compatible x370 and the ram slots.

I'd suggest a minimum CAS of 15.,

I'd stick with 2666 for now, but ram prices have been creeping upward since christmas,

 

[8350rocks]

Thanks for the suggestions and info. Interesting this Sweet spot (Price thing).
I know you maybe already know, I know you guys don't care abt Europe I guess, but some of us come here from EU to inform emselves since it's easier with you ppl to talk (at least for me). So here you get this danish norge german web site with all the prices, and I have to say, it must be a preorder no taxes, but they look lower then I expected, (I thought 329$ would be minimum 350 Euro i.e.) : https://www.proshop.dk/Bundkort/ASUS-CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO-Bundkort-AMD-X370-AMD-AM4-socket-DDR4-RAM-ATX-/2582449 (if you write in search box Ryzen Amd) check all that comes out, your eyes will smile

Just a noob question again: Of course I can't talk earlier then reviews: they might say this tuff is 0, they might say "hey get the 2666 if you don't wanna have a mess etc... but, What does it mean on these RAMS CL 14 CL 15 , 16 19 ... It's the CAS latiency .. but will review tell us what is the best CAS to take for x370 with 1700 Ryzen or we actually already can tell CL 15 is ok as CL 16 etc? can you please "educate" me about this?
Thx.

I just have good prices I think in my hands and that's why I am a little pressuring. (I don't think RAM will go lower then now like 135 dollars for 16gb 2x8) 3200mhz... and that's why I am interested to know more things abt PC (as you see) than on specifically Am4 ryzen compatible x370 and the ram slots.

With RAM, lower CAS is better. CAS relates to the Latency in the memory, and relates to the time it takes to get the information from the RAM.

So, Screwy says "at least 15", which is a recommendation I would agree with, that means anything 15 or lower would be fine. So, if you run across DDR4-2400 through DDR4-3200 anything in that range would be fine, and a cas latency of 15 or less would be most desirable. The difference between 14 and 15 is not really a great deal, but the difference between say, 11 or 12 and 15 can be noticeable depending upon what you use your PC for.

Just keep in mind, however, that the lower the CAS on the RAM, the higher it usually tends to run in price. My own RAM is only CAS 14, IIRC, so 14-15 would be fine.

 

[warmon6]

for the love of god, can we get a 4.1ghz run on a single thread. is that hard enough for anybody with a ryzen chip to do?

Well in terms of overclocking.. yes, I spotted this on a HardForum thread (where he/she spotted it from anandtech).

https://hardforum.com/threads/amd-announces-the-official-ryzen-launch-date.1925523/page-4#post-1042833782

Looks like we might be getting some ability to overclock on each individual core.

 

[Gizzah]

Scan has now put the Ryzen out for pre-order.

1700 @ £319.99
1700X @ £389.99
1800X @ £489.98

 

[juanrga]

Thanks for the suggestions and info. Interesting this Sweet spot (Price thing).
I know you maybe already know, I know you guys don't care abt Europe I guess, but some of us come here from EU to inform emselves since it's easier with you ppl to talk (at least for me). So here you get this danish norge german web site with all the prices, and I have to say, it must be a preorder no taxes, but they look lower then I expected, (I thought 329$ would be minimum 350 Euro i.e.) : https://www.proshop.dk/Bundkort/ASUS-CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO-Bundkort-AMD-X370-AMD-AM4-socket-DDR4-RAM-ATX-/2582449 (if you write in search box Ryzen Amd) check all that comes out, your eyes will smile

Just a noob question again: Of course I can't talk earlier then reviews: they might say this tuff is 0, they might say "hey get the 2666 if you don't wanna have a mess etc... but, What does it mean on these RAMS CL 14 CL 15 , 16 19 ... It's the CAS latiency .. but will review tell us what is the best CAS to take for x370 with 1700 Ryzen or we actually already can tell CL 15 is ok as CL 16 etc? can you please "educate" me about this?
Thx.

I just have good prices I think in my hands and that's why I am a little pressuring. (I don't think RAM will go lower then now like 135 dollars for 16gb 2x8) 3200mhz... and that's why I am interested to know more things abt PC (as you see) than on specifically Am4 ryzen compatible x370 and the ram slots.

With RAM, lower CAS is better. CAS relates to the Latency in the memory, and relates to the time it takes to get the information from the RAM.

So, Screwy says "at least 15", which is a recommendation I would agree with, that means anything 15 or lower would be fine. So, if you run across DDR4-2400 through DDR4-3200 anything in that range would be fine, and a cas latency of 15 or less would be most desirable. The difference between 14 and 15 is not really a great deal, but the difference between say, 11 or 12 and 15 can be noticeable depending upon what you use your PC for.

Just keep in mind, however, that the lower the CAS on the RAM, the higher it usually tends to run in price. My own RAM is only CAS 14, IIRC, so 14-15 would be fine.

CAS numbers are relative, not absolute. A DIMM with CL15 does not necessarily has to be better latency than one with CL18. It depends on the speeds:

Latency (nanosecond) = 2000 * CL / speed (MHz)

Latency = 2000 * 18 / 2666 = 13.50 nanosecond
Latency = 2000 * 15 / 2133 = 14.06 nanosecond

The module with CL18 has better latency than the module with CL15.

 

[jdwii]

Spoiler

"And that's coming from a person who would take an 8-core FX over an i3 for everything else, and stick to adequate 60-fps gaming."

Not really possible really unless you are talking about games that are not demanding. I've owned both 8350 is a terrible CPU compared to the I3 in a lot of games but in others its decent. Basically if the game can use all the cores the 8350 is pretty nice if not its pretty terrible unless you don't care about stutter and frame drops.

Gonna be very happy when Ryzen comes out to make Amd an option again for CPUs. I do mainly only play open world games and RTS games which are highly CPU intensive. I remember how often my old 770 dropped GPU usage on many games with a 8350 at times even below 70% usage. Some games even ran faster with my 1100T OC to 3.9Ghz vs the 4.3Ghz i could get with my 8350.

I just want to forget about bulldozer all together.

Edit
Does Tomshardware forums do "owner" threads if so i'd love to see one on Ryzen to see what most of the toms community is getting when it comes to benchmarks and scores. I just read Ryzen can possibly work with 3600Mhz+ ram. Like to see everyone's results.

Ok, trying to speak too much in too few words hurt my point, so let me clarify:

I had an FX 8120 (always at 3.6GHz), and now own an i3 6100. The FX was usable, but not good in Skyrim, for example, while the i3 is probably good enough too. The thing is I played it without issues on both processors, and unless I measure, I can't really tell which one is which. I agree that many games will have framerates below acceptable on an FX, but that's why Ryzen is here. That is a near-universal conclusion.

BUT then you look at overall system performance, and discover that two cores, even with HT, are not enough for any heavy task. I work with Unity, and anytime I compile a build there's mouse and sound stuttering, and the whose system is almost unusable. When on the FX, I couldn't find a way to make anything lag or stutter, because of the additional threads. It was slower, but the system felt smooth all the time.

Which brings me to my point: Skylake has great IPC, but dual cores must die. We could live with unresponsive systems on the early dual core eras, but today, when CPUs have as much as 10 cores, it's not acceptable. So saying the i3 is a good CPU is telling half the story, it can handle dedicated tasks well, but is very bad at multitasking. I don't care if Ryzen is 20% slower, because it has 4 real cores, I'll recommend the R3 over the i3 anytime.

I completely agree also unity can really make use of all the cores i'd always recommend a 8 core fx over a I3 skylake in that case, or with virtual machines just not games. Ryzen man i'm so happy and i can't tell people enough in this thread how much i'm happy to be wrong and in a way Juan i feel thinks the same.

Underestimating and getting more then what i expected is a far better feeling then i had with bulldozer where i was expecting big and got disappointed.