AMD Socket F (1207) vs Conroe ??????

[chunkymonster]

But unfortunately the VW beetle beat the Ferrari and I’ll say this again, even if you deem the article invalid because they are comparing apples with oranges, do you think it really matter?

Where did you say this the first time, considering your post count was 1 when you wrote this?!

A rational, objective, and thinking human being deems that article and any reference to it as invalid.

No, a rational thinking human being would take the article for what it's worth. It shows that despite being totally outgunned the Core 2 is still able to shine. That's what the article shows. The configurations used (the 2-Way Dual Core Opteron running x64 which gives it a performance increase in rendering vs. a Core 2 Extreme X6800 using a 32bit O/S).

You wish the results to be deemed invalid because they cast a bad light on your precious Opteron. Well, it's either this or they do up a test with a 2-Way Opteron running a 32bit O/S and a 2-Way Woodcrest also running a 32bit O/S and see the Opteron get an even larger beating (losing in every test).

Up to you really.. either way the results won't move your way..

Fanboi's.. seriously..

I do not care if the article favors the Core 2 or Opteron. I did not imply the article was not giving a fair chance to the 2-Way Dual Core Opterons. Those are your assumptions and reading words into my posts. Please do not project your presumptions and bias.

You're really not making any sense. Then what's wrong with someone using these tests to formulate there own conclusions if it's more then giving the 2-Way Dual Core Opteron a fair chance?

Seriously.. you're lacking logic my friend. You ARE a rabid fanboi, I could go around pasting some of the posts you've made. When independent tests show product A outperforming product B then those claiming that Product A is better are not fanboi's.. but stating the FACTS.. those still claiming Product B to be better are fanboi's.

So I'm not a fanboi.. You sir are the fanboi.. now that's logic young grasshopper... lol!!!

Now as I drive the last nail into your coffin I pretty much have figured out why this test hurts you dear. You're a Dual Opteron 250 Owner. It pains you to see another product challenge your system's eliteness. This is understandable.. but foolish. Here is how I figured out your apparent bias towards all things Opteron.

Now I'm running dual Opteron 250's on a Supermicro H8DCE that I put together last year, 4GB RAM, EVGA 7900GT KO, RAID0 for the OS, a 200GB scratch drive, and 3-320GB in RAID5 via a 3ware controller. Can't see myself going back to single proc machine...

I'm taking the "wait and see" approach to this quad core thing as there are basically zero applications that gamers or enthusiasts use to justify owning a quad core, and multitasking is a moot arguement here...it's also doubful that intel's quad core will displace the opteron in the server market, solely due to being a quad core...

Meh, core2 is impressive but not compelling enough for me to swap out dual opty's, an SLI capable mobo, a 7900GT, 4GB of RAM, and a 3Ware RAID controller on a 133MHz PCI-X slot...

That's right... it would seem you're quite the AMD fan.. I could of course post more of your posts. But it's quite clear that it pains you to know that the Opteron is not the best Workstation configuration anymore. Only in 8-way designs does it regain some advantages.

You need not worry, I'm quite certain AMD will rectify this with there K8L version of the Opteron. Until then, stomach it will ya!

I make no apologies for owning an AMD based machine. Still say quad core from either Intel and AMD is pointless for the everyday gamer and enthusiast. Again, you presume intentions and project your own bias. But that's ok...

Seems like I touched off nerve inside you, poked something close to the bone...I bet you got all giddy inside when you read that post about my H8DCE and dual optys, maybe even made your heart jump in anticipation of the impending pwning of chunkymonster...that's ok if you pwned me, tho...it's painfully obvious from this well researched and extensive reply to put me down that you are an angry young man with way too much time on your hands...and being angry is ok as long as it's directed constructively at activities that make you a more productive, healthy, and complete individual...replies and posts like this are not healthy or constructive and will certainly not remove the anger or fill that void in your life...I feel sorry for you, but look on the bright side of life, you won't always be angry and it's gonna be alright Elmo, it's gonna be alright.

 

[monkeymanuk]

Elmo,

You truly are a fanbette!

The point of the article was to do nothing more than PUMP the idea that a 1 x C2D can outpace 2 x Dual Opty. Which of course is complete bull! Unless of course you are running insufficient threads to utilise the extra cores in the Opty system. In that case then of course C2D is going to do exaclty what we already know it can do.

Here's a little test for your uber clocked C2D system. Start 4 SuperPI (32M) threads and tell me if your super duper C2D finishes its calculations equally as quickly as when running only 2 threads.

If it manages to survive the cache thrashing the please come back with the results. I'd love to see them.

Till then, stop munching on Intels labia!

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

Elmo,

You truly are a fanbette!

The point of the article was to do nothing more than PUMP the idea that a 1 x C2D can outpace 2 x Dual Opty. Which of course is complete bull! Unless of course you are running insufficient threads to utilise the extra cores in the Opty system. In that case then of course C2D is going to do exaclty what we already know it can do.

Here's a little test for your uber clocked C2D system. Start 4 SuperPI (32M) threads and tell me if your super duper C2D finishes its calculations equally as quickly as when running only 2 threads.

If it manages to survive the cache thrashing the please come back with the results. I'd love to see them.

Till then, stop munching on Intels labia!

Umm this is an easy one.. the author of this thread... he's not looking to run SuperPI..

Perhaps you should have read what he wishes to use the system for before opening your mouth kiddo.

I've proven I'm no fanboy with the massive amounts of rigs I own from either Intel or AMD... why don't you show us all your Intel rigs... oh that's right.. you're an AMD fanboi.

Wow.. another one shot down. At this rate I'll become the most hated individual on THG..

Seems like I touched off nerve inside you, poked something close to the bone...I bet you got all giddy inside when you read that post about my H8DCE and dual optys, maybe even made your heart jump in anticipation of the impending pwning of chunkymonster...that's ok if you pwned me, tho...it's painfully obvious from this well researched and extensive reply to put me down that you are an angry young man with way too much time on your hands...and being angry is ok as long as it's directed constructively at activities that make you a more productive, healthy, and complete individual...replies and posts like this are not healthy or constructive and will certainly not remove the anger or fill that void in your life...I feel sorry for you, but look on the bright side of life, you won't always be angry and it's gonna be alright Elmo, it's gonna be alright.

Ummm, no not at all.. I'm as calm as a whistle. The reasoning as to why I'm good at arguing is due to practice. I've come to realise that you cannot sit on an extreme viewpoint and expect to win every argument. Extremism is not healthy.

I'm quite subjective.. soo much so that I feel we should discuss this more on PM. Because the only way people can resolve there differences is through compromising. If you want you can PM me... and we can discuss this further. As any further posts on here will simply feed the trolls.

 

[MattC]

I haven't seen anything to convince me that chunkymonster is a fanboi. He hasn't made any real fanboy-ish comments, like others I can think of (a certain Baron and whatever 9-inch is going by now). I think he's just really confused ... he didn't read the original posters situation very well, or he would quickly realize his mistake.

Clearly, the 4 processor amd system is an excellent machine - for certain applications. However, for a file server, some gaming, and the like, I'd definately go with a conroe system. That is, at least as long as you have a nice, sizable budget, as those budget c2d mobos really don't look so great to me.

I think the two of you should stop arguing about it. Elmo, you don't need to worry about people reading his comments and getting misled, in my opinion - and anyone who is that easily confused deserves to make a purchasing mistake or two. Chunkymonster, if you're really making such a rock-solid case and if you really think your logic (and your understanding of the situation, of the original posters question) is so undeniable, let it rest ... I'm sure people will agree with your posts and your opinion, as you have already set forth, so don't worry. <sigh>

 

[Synthetickiller]

So which one is better? Tyan S2895 or a Supermicro H8DCE?

Has anyone used either?

 

[quantumsheep]

So which one is better? Tyan S2895 or a Supermicro H8DCE?

Has anyone used either?

Sorry man, i've never heard of either of those brands or used anything by them!

Why don't you try www.newegg.com and look up some reviews?

 

[Synthetickiller]

This is the breakdown between the 2 and why I don't know exactly what to do.

Tyan s2895 MOBO:

PROs:
Same basic layout
PCI-Express x2
8 ram slots (I have 1 gig x8 sticks to use)

CONs:
PCI-Express not spaced well (see comments on newegg)
only 4 sata ports and placed in odd places
Costs more: $420
Only 800 mhz FSB

SuperMicro

Pros:
Good layout
8 sata ports (compared to 4 on the tyan)
PCI-Express ports well spaced for SLI
FSB = 1ghz! (compared to 800)
Costs: $334

CONs:
Problems getting raid to run on windows server 2003 (this could be a MAJOR issue for me)

Other than never using this company, no other issues.



What do u guys think? I love tyan. Other than this board going, I've never had a problem and won't hesitate buying another tyan. Like I've said, I've never used SuperMicro, so I can't say they are good or bad. The sata raid problems with windows server bothers me, but if its easily overcome, then no issues with that board. I'd like to have 8 sata ports in the future as well.

 

[quantumsheep]

This is the breakdown between the 2 and why I don't know exactly what to do.

Tyan s2895 MOBO:

PROs:
Same basic layout
PCI-Express x2
8 ram slots (I have 1 gig x8 sticks to use)

CONs:
PCI-Express not spaced well (see comments on newegg)
only 4 sata ports and placed in odd places
Costs more: $420
Only 800 mhz FSB

SuperMicro

Pros:
Good layout
8 sata ports (compared to 4 on the tyan)
PCI-Express ports well spaced for SLI
FSB = 1ghz! (compared to 800)
Costs: $334

CONs:
Problems getting raid to run on windows server 2003 (this could be a MAJOR issue for me)

Other than never using this company, no other issues.



What do u guys think? I love tyan. Other than this board going, I've never had a problem and won't hesitate buying another tyan. Like I've said, I've never used SuperMicro, so I can't say they are good or bad. The sata raid problems with windows server bothers me, but if its easily overcome, then no issues with that board. I'd like to have 8 sata ports in the future as well.

The supermicro looks a LOT better to me. The problem getting RAID to run on windoze should be sorted if the mobo has been out for 6+ months. If the company hasn't released a patch someone will have released something that will make it work.

 

[Synthetickiller]

Reading what a poster mentioned that he had problems getting the raid to work on windows sever convinced me to check out SuperMicro's site.

The board supposdely does NOT support windows server 2003.

http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/support/resources/OS/OS_Compatibility.cfm

I don't get why it wouldn't work. Think this is an issue? I'm just worried about buying the wrong mobo.

 

[monkeymanuk]

I'll have you know I have a nice little Dell optiplex P450 running as quiet as a mouse used as a print server here in my office and, 1 samsung X15 centrino laptop, 1 Dell Inspiron 8500, 1 Athlon 64 3000+ notebook. The two latter notebooks are now only used as archives because quite frankly they are not very portable and have served their purpose.

So along with my X2 rig I'd say that my allegience is reasonably balanced!

Oh and yes I did read the thread correctly but noticed your trolling so was unable to resist

One final thought: Just saying you pwned someone doesn't make it true, but you just keep telling yourself spakwad [spack-wod].

 

[odk0037]

You can check out forum threads at http://www.2cpu.com in the motherboard section. As for your upgrade, if you already own the opterons and ram, I would recommand you save some money and just get a new board. beloved patriot Luck! BTW, there's also the Gigabyte GA-2cewh, you can read them all up on the 2cpu forum.

 

[monkeymanuk]

Another Idiot!

The only real world applications you are talking about are those running a maximum of two seperate threads.

Do you really believe a quad core C2D system would have got better scores on the first five tests than the single C2D system? No, of course not because those first five tests only take advantage of a dual core setup!

Test 1, 3, 4. The xw9300 2.4Ghz opty system performs better than the xw9400 running 64-Bit. So what are we saying that because of these results the the 9300 is better bang for buck? Idiots!

Heck, just one of the dual-core Core 2 Extreme chips can beat two of the dual-core Opterons in many tests

As I said before this is another piece of pro Intel marketting attempting to con buyers into believing a lie.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

I'll have you know I have a nice little Dell optiplex P450 running as quiet as a mouse used as a print server here in my office and, 1 samsung X15 centrino laptop, 1 Dell Inspiron 8500, 1 Athlon 64 3000+ notebook. The two latter notebooks are now only used as archives because quite frankly they are not very portable and have served their purpose.

So along with my X2 rig I'd say that my allegience is reasonably balanced!

Oh and yes I did read the thread correctly but noticed your trolling so was unable to resist

One final thought: Just saying you pwned someone doesn't make it true, but you just keep telling yourself spakwad [spack-wod].

Great, yet another high end review without real high end graphics tests. What a pile!

If I spend $1000 dollars on a CPU I'm not gonna scrimp on my monitor.

What is the video performance like at 1600 x 1200???

What is SuperPI score running 2 threads of 32M iterations???

We know Conroe is fast, it can perform most tasks without going outside of its own built in cache. That's just dandy.

Here's my real-world test set up!!!

I normally run several applications at once: Dreamweaver, MYSQL, Apache, PHP, Paint Shop Pro 8, Firefox, IE & Windows Media Player. Firefox will generally have 6-8 tabs open as I browse whilst I work. I also play HL2 whilst these applications are active in the background to take a break from my work. That would be a real-word test!!! That is what I do in my day to day work.

My System nevers blinks, I never notice any slow-down (with the exception of Hard Drive). Spec is 3800+ X2 @ 2.5Ghz, 2GB DDR400, 7600GT @ 25% overclock.

I'm quite happy to encode a dvd in the background because it takes a long time regardless of which CPU you are using. I dont really care if Conroe can do it faster, I never sit there waiting whilst it is processing, what idiot does?

Hmmm balanced eh?

You're another fanboi with limited knowledge and a pure unguided hatred for anything Intel. You can claim you own all these systems.. but quite frankly i'm impressed you even own a single machine..let alone know how to use it.



And your childish immature insults (spack wad?) are quite tiresome kiddo. Perhaps you can argue with me once you've acquired the needed knowledge. Until then you can go back under the bridge you came from troll

Geez, it's soo easy to beat you fanboi's. As Tom's keeps a list of all your past posts. And I can pretty much find all your anti-Conroe rhetoric on here.

I mean you're one of those dumb asses who thinks that Core 2 Duo only performs well on programs that fit within it's Cache (mainly games at low res) and your dumb enough to think that the reason Core 2 Extreme X6800 performs similarly in todays games at high resolutions is due to the games executions not fitting within Core 2 Extreme X6800's 4MB Cache. What sort of crack have you been smoking.. it's called a GRAPHICS CARD BOTTLENECK.

Don't believe me.. compare the performance difference between Allendale (2MB Cache) and Conroe (4MB Cache) under games.. the difference is only between 0-6% at low resolutions varying on the game when run at high resolutions the performance difference is NILL.

Until you gather enough knowledge to challenge me in arguments, it would be in your best interest to not try and challenge me in public. It only belittles you. :roll:

Good luck young grasshopper.

 

[Synthetickiller]

You can check out forum threads at http://www.2cpu.com in the motherboard section. As for your upgrade, if you already own the opterons and ram, I would recommand you save some money and just get a new board. beloved patriot Luck! BTW, there's also the Gigabyte GA-2cewh, you can read them all up on the 2cpu forum.

Thanks. I took at look @ the gigabyte MOBO. Not bad at all. I just have reservations about where the sata ports are located. I have a server case and I can tell you that I'd have to buy new sata cables to make it work. Also, the FSB is 800 mhz and the supermicro is 1000mhz.

Also the supermicro is cheaper.

But thanks, I didn't even know gigabyte made a dual-opty mobo with sli.

 

[clue69less]

http://chunkymonster.justgotowned.com

I just pwned myself with that and the whole family liked it.

 

[monkeymanuk]

You've completely got the wrong end of the stick. Spakwad is a term of endearment

I love your posts, they make me feel all warm and fuzzy!

All your post history is available elsewhere in Toms also , but I dont have time to go ferreting around trying to find a quote taken out of context. I have a life outside of these forums.

And one more thing, I love all my old hardware. It's like a history of my computers, an evolutionary map if you like.

But if your gonna tell me again that that article was not a pumper then I have no more respect for you!

 

[monkeymanuk]

Oh dear!

I'll reiterate my point shall?

1 x C2D cant run 4 simultaneous SuperPI (cringe!) calcs in the same time as it takes to run 2. Is that clear enough for you????????

Conversely: If you run a single SuperPi calc on a quad core C2D it wont finish any quicker then on a Dual core C2D. Is that simplistic enough for you?

Therefore, testing a quad core system using only two major threads does not utilise the power of that system and thus does not show it in a light that reflects its true abilities. Hence, the article is nothing but a pumper of false information. It's an old propaganda trick and Intel is the king of propaganda!

 

[monkeymanuk]

I think you have a problem interpreting English my man!

I'll try again.

Let's get all practical, you can try this at home.

Create 4 folders and copy SuperPI to each folder. Now execute each instance of SuperPI in each of the four folders. Windows will happily do this for you as it can cope with many many threads.

Now, start each instance of SuperPI calculating up to 32m. What you may notice is that 4 instances of SuperPI takes longer to finish its calculations on a dual core system than it would take to calculate 2 instances.

If you then get a Kentsfield system (wont be long now) and run the same test I would wager that the 4 threads on Kentsfield would take about the same time to calculate as 2 threads on Kentsfield.

If the author of the article in question runs the same benchies on a kentsfield system then it will also show that 4 core system in a bad light.

Thus the article is tosh!

 

[Synthetickiller]

Since my thread was hijacked, I might as well update everyone.

I ended up ordering the SUPERMICRO H8DCE mobo since it was cheaper and had a better fsb.

I also ordered the ASUS EAX1900XT/2DHTV/512 Radeon X1900XT 512MB, b/c the MSI with the $150 dollar rebate was out of stock and i need my comp running asap. It still wasn't a bad deal.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814121554

I'm cooling it with the Accelero X2, I don't konw if anyone has reviewed it since tom did, but I'll tell u guys how well it runs when i get my system up and running.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835186002

 

[440bx]

CONs:
Problems getting raid to run on windows server 2003 (this could be a MAJOR issue for me)

I'll offer you a different viewpoint which in your case in particular might be helpful.

I don't ever use a motherboard's built in RAID's abilities because that prevents me from moving the hard drives to another motherboard. I always purchase TWO (2) identical RAID controllers and run RAID off of them.

In that way, should the motherboard fail for any reason, I can take the controller and the drives to any other motherboard of my choosing without any problems. This is something you cannot do if you use the onboard RAID controller.

For this reason, I'd say, take a chance on the SuperMicro motherboard and, apply the money you saved towards the purchase of a couple of good RAID controllers.

Also, I've used both Tyan and SuperMicro boards but that was a long time ago and, I think my experience with them is invalid as it was too long ago (5+ years). For the record, both were good, though not stellar boards, they got the job done. I remember not liking the Tyan because it was based on a VIA chipset that was oftentimes a source of headaches but, I hold that against VIA, not Tyan.

HTH.

 

[Mike995]

The only thing that you will notice throughout that article is the woodcrest server rips the opteron, destroys it. 39 % faster in some benchmarks. Go with the core 2, its an excellent processor, if you were considering 2 opterons just go with the woodcrest (destroys the opterons).

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

I think you have a problem interpreting English my man!

I'll try again.

Let's get all practical, you can try this at home.

Create 4 folders and copy SuperPI to each folder. Now execute each instance of SuperPI in each of the four folders. Windows will happily do this for you as it can cope with many many threads.

Now, start each instance of SuperPI calculating up to 32m. What you may notice is that 4 instances of SuperPI takes longer to finish its calculations on a dual core system than it would take to calculate 2 instances.

If you then get a Kentsfield system (wont be long now) and run the same test I would wager that the 4 threads on Kentsfield would take about the same time to calculate as 2 threads on Kentsfield.

If the author of the article in question runs the same benchies on a kentsfield system then it will also show that 4 core system in a bad light.

Thus the article is tosh!

Wow.. you prove your lack of intelligence more and more as time goes by.

The Author of this thread did not ASK about running 4 Threads of SuperPI. He wanted to know REAL WORLD performance. It's all nice and dandy that a 2-Way Dual Core Opteron can run four instances of SuperPI but that's SYNTHETIC benchmarking.

You truly are showing a complete lack of common sense. That article used WORKSTATION applications available TODAY that are the most USED and most likely to be RUN on these two configurations.

Quit the blind fanboyism... seriously.. your arguments are too easy to beat.

 

[Synthetickiller]

CONs:
Problems getting raid to run on windows server 2003 (this could be a MAJOR issue for me)

I'll offer you a different viewpoint which in your case in particular might be helpful.

I don't ever use a motherboard's built in RAID's abilities because that prevents me from moving the hard drives to another motherboard. I always purchase TWO (2) identical RAID controllers and run RAID off of them.

In that way, should the motherboard fail for any reason, I can take the controller and the drives to any other motherboard of my choosing without any problems. This is something you cannot do if you use the onboard RAID controller.

For this reason, I'd say, take a chance on the SuperMicro motherboard and, apply the money you saved towards the purchase of a couple of good RAID controllers.

Also, I've used both Tyan and SuperMicro boards but that was a long time ago and, I think my experience with them is invalid as it was too long ago (5+ years). For the record, both were good, though not stellar boards, they got the job done. I remember not liking the Tyan because it was based on a VIA chipset that was oftentimes a source of headaches but, I hold that against VIA, not Tyan.

HTH.



You bring up a VERY good point.

So, I have 270 gigs of STUFF on my HDDs. There's no way to just apply a raid driver and it'll boot to winblows? So basically I lose all my data?

 

[darkstar782]

If its software raid without a controller, any XP Pro install can read it (but it cant be a boot drive)

If its a RAID array based off a controller, you need that controller and the drivers for it.

An alternative the the suggested solution, is that if you, for example, use the nVraid on an nForce 4 chipset, any nForce 4 motherboard will read it in the future as its the same controller.

 

[Synthetickiller]

If its software raid without a controller, any XP Pro install can read it (but it cant be a boot drive)

If its a RAID array based off a controller, you need that controller and the drivers for it.

An alternative the the suggested solution, is that if you, for example, use the nVraid on an nForce 4 chipset, any nForce 4 motherboard will read it in the future as its the same controller.

Call me a bit slow. Its been a while since I've really tinkered with computers (last time I overclocked was with jumpers on the mobo). I found a pci card that has the same chip (sil3114) as the old mobo I had. So,the drivers will work and I can just plug and play or at least make it work so I don't have to lose all my data?

PCI sata raid card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16816132006

tyan s2885 mobo
http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8w_spec.html