Any AGP DX10 news ???

[Heyyou27]

PCIe zeolots, please don't reply with your pushy sermons about changing the motherboard and getting PCIe. This post is for people interested in AGP DX10.

I have not heard anything in about a month.

Anybody heard any reliable news.

So your new Direct X10 videocard can be bottlenecked by the rest of your outdated system?
well you could have a fx60 on agp which is still a good cpu and can give the 8800 some serious powerWhen the FX60 came out, no Nforce4 motherboard supported AGP, so you would have chosen the outdated board. Anyone who spent nearly $1000 on a CPU would have no problem affording the right motherboard.

 

[djmerlin]

Well, all stock on the 4 sites I visit pretty much every day are 10+ when in stock.

I see your point, but there are so many people out there with AGP systems (and plenty of gamers...just take a look on any gaming site they are full of AGP massive all talking about their AGP cards), and if you have anything above a 2.5GHZ CPUor thereabouts its worth one of the new cards simply because it means you dont have to go to the next depressing level of PCI-E and vista!

For that we should all be truly grateful.

 

[SuperFly03]

The problem is that in any change over, budget people get screwed. At some point the company just has to make a choice to not produce any more cards on a legacy connection (whether the market exists or not). I assume that any company with any brains does a cost benefit analysis on these types of decisions. If they do their due diligence they will include qualitative benefits as well as monetary benefits (i.e. customers satisfaction, customer retention, image maintenance, goodwill, etc). Hate the companies as you will, but there has to be a line drawn.

Do I think it will be now? Probably, the change over in series is the best time to make such a decision. So as a result you may find 7 series in AGP, but you would never find an 8 series in AGP, just for customer ease and benefit to avoid confusion.

 

[erocker]

I can't believe some of you morons who gripe about people using AGP. ATi has stated that there will be a DX10 AGP card. Nvidia will not... for now. And to the person who stated that you can "upgrade" to a PCI-Express system for $350 bucks, wrong. Why would I even want to upgrade to a DDR2 system when far better DDR3 is just around the corner? Sorry, I'm just sick of you sheep that needlessly spend money on the latest crap.

 

[SuperFly03]

I can't believe some of you morons who gripe about people using AGP. ATi has stated that there will be a DX10 AGP card. Nvidia will not... for now. And to the person who stated that you can "upgrade" to a PCI-Express system for $350 bucks, wrong. Why would I even want to upgrade to a DDR2 system when far better DDR3 is just around the corner? Sorry, I'm just sick of you sheep that needlessly spend money on the latest crap.

New techs are always around the corner. DDR3 is still at least 12 months out from coming to market, much less being affordable.

Who said it was needlessly spent? Early adopters know what they are getting into (usually), quit flaming them for it. It is spending the money for no upgrade that is always useless.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

The fact that the 8600 is pin compatible with the 7600 is not a rumour, so development cost for an 8600 AGP is effectively zero.

Being pin compatible means nothing for making PCIe -> AGP, it mean the PCIe chip will drop into the PCIe board. However the AGP variant still needs the bridge chip which means the cost is effectively still the $50 premium to make the AGP models.

I sometimes wish I had just gone for a 1950pro AGP, it cost me $1200 effectly to upgrade to a PCI express 1950pro

Uh, yeah, right! I call Shenanigans!
To upgrade from AGP to PCIe costs less than $100 for anyone with a modern CPU worthwhile of the upgrade in the first place. If you replace your whole system, that's not part of the switch.

There are good S939, S754, AM2, and LGA775 boards with legacy support for AGP & PCIe and DDR. The only people without a good path are on old AthlonXP and early P4 users, neither of whose platform is worth the upgrade for modern games.

Perhaps in the UK you're screwed for choice, but even then delivery of a mobo with duties would be cheaper than the $1,200 figure you quote.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

And to the person who stated that you can "upgrade" to a PCI-Express system for $350 bucks, wrong. Why would I even want to upgrade to a DDR2 system when far better DDR3 is just around the corner?

Who said you had to upgrade to DDR2?
And if the fact that something new is around the corner befuddles you, it's no wonder you're still stuck on AGP, you're waiting for PCIe 7.0
I'm surprised you're not still on an ISA bus 8088.

Sorry, I'm just sick of you sheep that needlessly spend money on the latest crap.

And I'm sick of the luddites like you not picking the wise and cheap upgrade paths, instead you sit back and then complain about AGP and DDR2. :roll:

There are few people with a valid reason to stick with AGP. I can understand the workstation market, but gamers and PC enthusiasts need to look at the bigger picture and rewalize that putting a GF8800 on their AMDK6-2 isn't going to make it a gaming rig for the upcoming CPU intensive games like Crysis.

The OP was one of those very same dimwits who told someone they should get an AGP X1950Pro instead of an equally priced better CPU for Supreme Commander, when all the reviews, and all the people with hands on experience showed that the graphics offered at best a 25% boost, and the dual core CPU offered a boost better than that provided by a GF8800GTX, and that that boost would be felt in other day to day apps.
But since we were PCIe snob/zealots,we were the ones at fault trying to make everyone upgrade (isn't suggesting an AGP X1950P also an upgrade?), ignoring the fact that the guy doesn't care what he's upgrading as long as his game plays better for the same price!

Some games may be worth just a graphics, upgrade but gloablly people are better of with a move to better gear, and with the premium you pay for the AGP variant of the mid-high end cards, you're already saving $100 towards the rest of the system.

DX9 I could understand, but DX10 is a waste of time and money for anything other than a tech demo slideshow.

It's like people who put an AGP X1600/GF7600 on their P3 so they could see 3Dmark06. :roll:

 

[SuperFly03]

Well said as per usual.

Closed minded narrow visioned people ftw :roll:

At this rate we would still be using horse drawn carriages because cars are environmentally unfriendly. 8O

 

[cleeve]

Sorry, I'm just sick of you sheep that needlessly spend money on the latest crap.

Thank your lucky stars for early adopters, they drive technology forward and make last-gen technology cheaper for the everyman.

Why would anyone be sick of people who have the latest stuff unless they're jealous of it? :roll:

 

[prozac26]

Sorry, I'm just sick of you sheep that needlessly spend money on the latest crap.

Enjoying your C64?

 

[Mach5Motorsport]

Sorry, I'm just sick of you sheep that needlessly spend money on the latest crap.

Enjoying your C64?

Works for the Shuttle fleet. Although I think they upgraded to Pentiums now.

 

[piratepast40]

Unfortunalely, this thread has degraded but the OP did start on a rather antaganistic note. I can sympathize with erocker about the somewhat pervasive and negative comments toward those who want to upgrade an aging system without a system replacement. Let's not forget that it was only about 2 1/2 years ago that many were saying that PCIe was a ridiculous waste of money and would be a short lived and unnecessary fad.

The fact is that components age. Trying to upgrade and keep a computer alive after 3 or more years has escalating risks. Personally, I was dragged kicking and screaming into the PCIe world when my ASUS A8V mobo went south. When I bought the board, it was a rated as an excellent performer and carried a hefty $250 price tag. I was pleasantly surprised to find a Foxconn mATX board that had most of the features of the A8V plus a few extras for only $70. I was able to keep my s939 platform and RAM with minimal financial pain.

Too many times, a question is asked about increasing DDR RAM or buying a better AGP video card, and the thread degrades into how stupid people are for spending $200 on the single item upgrade when they could have a whole new system for $1500! The fact is, forums are 90% opinion. You need to be pretty thick skinned and have the ability to look past the "I know more than you do and you're a stupid jerk" posts and try to sort out fact from opinions. From what I've seen, the only other two topics that generate more arguments are those related to power supplies and the business end of Intel vs AMD.

 

[grifter33]

New techs are always around the corner. DDR3 is still at least 12 months out from coming to market, much less being affordable.

Don't know where you got that idea. DDR3 will be on the market in a few weeks. They already launched the p35 chipset at cebit last week, which can use ddr3. Boards are supposed to hit the market by May.

The x38 chipset which is ddr3 only is supposed to be on the shelf by the end of summer.

As for affordability.... Well thats a whole different issue. I wouldn't be surprised to see ddr3 prices double that of ddr2 at the start and for a few months after.

 

[flasher702]

ffs you have got to be kidding. Get a new computer. Older AGP gaming systems have 1g of ram and a single-core CPU that has mid-range single-threaded performance. What DX10 apps were you planning on running? You feel the need to upgrade to the latest greatest GPU and the latest greatest Video games but can't spare ~$400 to upgrade to 2g DDR2, dual-core, and PCIe?

There was a time when it was wise to snub dual-core CPUs and PCIe GFX as a waste of money, that time has clearly passed. Take your AGP, IDE, FDD, DDR, PS/2 and whatever other legacy equipment you have and choke on it. These things cost MORE and perform LESS than their modern equivalents and some of us are trying to move on. Wether we like it or not ALL computer users are part of a community and we need to move on together. There will always be foolish early adopters and foolish legacy users but we should do our best to keep the train rolling at a rate we can all keep up with.

If your stuff is working don't upgrade it. That's fine with me. I have a TON of AGP gaming systems under my care and they are doing great but not a single one of them is getting a GFX or RAM upgrade, ever. I'm not going to support the upgrading of legacy systems. I've told my users to save their money in preperation for a full system upgrade. Ussually all it takes is a quick example of how the 8x AGP card costs ~$50 more than the PCIe one and is slower to convince them but my users are fairly intelligent, rational, and frugal. If you desperately need to play Crysis you desperately need a new system. If affording that new system is a financial problem you desperately need a reality check: GAMES ARE NOT IMPORTANT, save your money and try to be a little more resistant to marketing and peer pressure. Play DX9 games, play OpenGL games, hell, play Flash and Java games. Run non-bloated appz with properly optimized code. You can't refuse to upgrade and also complain that the latest most bloated and buggy software doesn't run correctly on your years old machine and expect any sympathy. You can't refuse to upgrade your mobo and also complain that there is no upgrade path for your system to use bleeding edge technology and expect people to consider you to be sane.

 

[Synergy6]

1) There will be AGP DX10 cards. Just because some people don't *want* there to be, doesn't mean they won't be made.

2)

PCIe zeolots, please don't reply with your pushy sermons about changing the motherboard and getting PCIe. This post is for people interested in AGP DX10.

Quite predictive, really. I don't think there is a way to stop such people, unfortunately. "other legacy equipment you have and choke on it" "ffs you have got to be kidding." "You're too cheap" are just some of the enlightened comments you have to expect.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Unfortunalely, this thread has degraded but the OP did start on a rather antaganistic note.

Which was a carry over from his previous contributions in the other thread.

Too many times, a question is asked about increasing DDR RAM or buying a better AGP video card, and the thread degrades into how stupid people are for spending $200 on the single item upgrade when they could have a whole new system for $1500!

Well one of the reasons that happens is because the OP and his defenders don't understand the other options out there and they think the only thing they can swap out is the AGP, and somehow going PCIE requires new everything including PSU, CASE, and even Keyboard and mouse for all the $1,500 lead me to believe.

For the added cost of the GF7800GS when it came out, the GF7600GT-AGP when it came out, the premium of the X1950Pro AGP over it's PCIe counterpart, you can buy an S939 or LGA775 MoBo that supports both PCIe and AGP, and lets you keep the old DDR RAM, while giving you an upgrade path to future products at launch. It's 6 months after the GF8800 launch where are the AGP card? How long after the GF7 and X1K launches did their AGP counterparts come out that were worth the upgrade from the previous options? For the same money and a better upgrade path a new flexible MoBo and PCIe solution makes more sense for most situations. And the only times that option isn't available, and $200 more costly beige box would mop the floor with it and have a better upgrade path. When PCIe and AGP first made their apperance, PCIe was a tough sell primarily because it was saddled with the Prescotts, and then it made little sense to bother moving to PCIe, now it makes little sense to buy another AGP graphics card with all the options out there. It's not even about A vs B, it's about wisely spending the limited money anyone has, and it's rare that AGP is the way to go. The rare exception was when the GF7800GS was selling for about as low as the PCIe GF7800GS, but that was almost a year after launch, and an AGP card in 2008 will make even less sense.

1) There will be AGP DX10 cards. Just because some people don't *want* there to be, doesn't mean they won't be made.

Just because there will be AGP doesn't mean it's a wise move to buy it. There's PCI cards out there, would you recomend someone buy a $150 X1300PCI card because they can, or would you recommend a $70 MoBo upgrade and $70 X1600/GF7600PCIe card for a combined less amount of money when they launched the X1300PCI ?

That's the point. The AGP supporters don't care about the logic behind their decisions they just wanna add the AGP card to what they still consider an Uber rig, even if it means cutting off their upgrade options. Moving to a combo AGP+PCIe MoBo for either an AMD or intel system is the smart way to go, because it means other options. Someone stuck at the XP/P4 end of the equation really has to think harder as to whether or not this isn't the perfect time to actually get something better than their weak core system, more than move from the power they already could've gotten from a GF7800GS or X1950Pro.

For most of these situations it's like adding a spoiler to a Yugo IMO.

 

[flasher702]

New techs are always around the corner. DDR3 is still at least 12 months out from coming to market, much less being affordable.

Don't know where you got that idea. DDR3 will be on the market in a few weeks. They already launched the p35 chipset at cebit last week, which can use ddr3. Boards are supposed to hit the market by May.

The x38 chipset which is ddr3 only is supposed to be on the shelf by the end of summer.

As for affordability.... Well thats a whole different issue. I wouldn't be surprised to see ddr3 prices double that of ddr2 at the start and for a few months after.

Someone doesn't seem to remember how the transision from SD to DDR went. Or DDR to RAMBUS, or DDR to DDR2. DDR3 is years out from being an even remotely cost-effective solution. DDR2-800 isn't predicted to go mainstream until next summer.
www.dramexchange.com and www.digitimes.com are good resources for trying to predict such things

 

[SuperFly03]

Do you not remember how transitions go? DDR3 will hit at 800 and 1066... and 1333 is still in the labs. What benefit does DDR3 have over DDR2 at the same speeds (power withstanding)? Higher latency? Higher prices? Do you really think that DDR3 fits in the budgetary concepts of the people still using AGP cards? I don't, so when I say 12-18 months... thats when it expects to become reasonably affordable. I misstated the release date (although since there is no official launch yet, it could get delayed) but for it to even hit upper mainstream, it will take at least a year.

 

[Synergy6]

1) There will be AGP DX10 cards. Just because some people don't *want* there to be, doesn't mean they won't be made.

Just because there will be AGP doesn't mean it's a wise move to buy it. There's PCI cards out there, would you recomend someone buy a $150 X1300PCI card because they can, or would you recommend a $70 MoBo upgrade and $70 X1600/GF7600PCIe card for a combined less amount of money when they launched the X1300PCI ?

That's the point. The AGP supporters don't care about the logic behind their decisions they just wanna add the AGP card to what they still consider an Uber rig, even if it means cutting off their upgrade options. Moving to a combo AGP+PCIe MoBo for either an AMD or intel system is the smart way to go, because it means other options. Someone stuck at the XP/P4 end of the equation really has to think harder as to whether or not this isn't the perfect time to actually get something better than their weak core system, more than move from the power they already could've gotten from a GF7800GS or X1950Pro.

For most of these situations it's like adding a spoiler to a Yugo IMO.

Do you even listen to yourself? The OP just wanted AGP DX10 based news, and you're *still* preaching about the evils of AGP. Have you provided any relevant news? I've just said there will be DX10 AGP cards, but I'm still looking to try and provide what the OP seeks.

 

[rdhood]

The subtle points have been made... now lets go to the bigger points:


NVidia and ATI each have ONE advanced AGP card (GF7800GS and the X1950Pro AGP, respectively). These came out at about +$100US over their PCIe counterparts, and came out well after their PCIe counterparts.

I think you can look to the last two "upper mid-end" offerings from Nvidia and ATI as indicators of the future of DX10 AGP cards. Why would any AGP user expect that a possible DX10 AGP part will be be any different?

Consider that there still are NO DX10 PCIe offering in the under $300 market. Consider that.... when the value DX10 cards come out... the AGP variants probably trail by some time, they will be +$100, and they will be hard to find (all two of them, one from each company?).

So yeah, you'll probably get your AGP .... after the low/mid tier of PCIe cards come out, and with a $100 premium to those same PCIe cards.

You want AGP? You got it ! (Bend over......)

 

[grifter33]

DDr3 can read and write simultaneously so ddr3 800 should be able to perform around the same speeds as ddr2 1066. It's a little different than the transition from ddr-ddr2 where there were no real benefits early on.

 

[Vash-HT]

And to the person who stated that you can "upgrade" to a PCI-Express system for $350 bucks, wrong. Why would I even want to upgrade to a DDR2 system when far better DDR3 is just around the corner?

Who said you had to upgrade to DDR2?
And if the fact that something new is around the corner befuddles you, it's no wonder you're still stuck on AGP, you're waiting for PCIe 7.0
I'm surprised you're not still on an ISA bus 8088.

Sorry, I'm just sick of you sheep that needlessly spend money on the latest crap.

And I'm sick of the luddites like you not picking the wise and cheap upgrade paths, instead you sit back and then complain about AGP and DDR2. :roll:

There are few people with a valid reason to stick with AGP. I can understand the workstation market, but gamers and PC enthusiasts need to look at the bigger picture and rewalize that putting a GF8800 on their AMDK6-2 isn't going to make it a gaming rig for the upcoming CPU intensive games like Crysis.

The OP was one of those very same dimwits who told someone they should get an AGP X1950Pro instead of an equally priced better CPU for Supreme Commander, when all the reviews, and all the people with hands on experience showed that the graphics offered at best a 25% boost, and the dual core CPU offered a boost better than that provided by a GF8800GTX, and that that boost would be felt in other day to day apps.
But since we were PCIe snob/zealots,we were the ones at fault trying to make everyone upgrade (isn't suggesting an AGP X1950P also an upgrade?), ignoring the fact that the guy doesn't care what he's upgrading as long as his game plays better for the same price!

Some games may be worth just a graphics, upgrade but gloablly people are better of with a move to better gear, and with the premium you pay for the AGP variant of the mid-high end cards, you're already saving $100 towards the rest of the system.

DX9 I could understand, but DX10 is a waste of time and money for anything other than a tech demo slideshow.

It's like people who put an AGP X1600/GF7600 on their P3 so they could see 3Dmark06. :roll:

Great points, I don't now how many times ive seen people recommend a video card upgrade for supreme commander, but its stupid. Everyone is just spouting the saying that "cpu doesnt matter much for gaming anymore". For some games it still does matter, and in the future it will matter much more, so sticking with a slow single core cpu with a high end video card is not the best choice if you want your pc to last a while.

Also, how could anyone consider PCI-e the latest tech when it came out years ago. PCIe isn't the "latest crap" anymore, its getting pretty old by tech standards, which makes AGP even older. I don't think you can be a PCIe zealot anymore considering its a widespread standard now, but rather people hanging onto AGP like the OP could be labeled AGP zealots I suppose.

When I first built my S939 it had AGP, but I eventually upgraded it to PCIe for around 100$ for a good SLI board. Thats not expensive at all, and considering how AGP cards are more expensive than their PCI-e counterparts, it ends up not being that bad.

 

[bkiserx7]

You're too cheap to upgrade the rest of your system (I've said it before, $350 gets you a new motherboard, processor, 1GB of RAM, and a placeholder graphics card) yet you want to pay very hefty premiums to put a DX10 compatible card in that will be held back? :roll:

You forgot a new power supply and a PCI IDE for our old legacy hard drives. Oh, and a new OS (unless you have purchased full Retail instead of OEM). You can't forget new cooling if you get an OEM processor................. :roll:

Just tell the guy in India your board died and you had to reinstall. Works with my OEM copy everytime.

 

[anthonybuchanan]

The PCIe zeolots don't even care about the low-rez I will settle for in order to be able to keep this machine going another year or two.

Doesnt everything come dow to rez. I'm only talking about 1280X720 max.

 

[anthonybuchanan]

You guys just want me to spend a bundle.

You havent even seen my girlfriend yet cause if you had you would know I don't have a lot of extra cash laying around.