Apple: People Will Upgrade to Macs, Not Win 7

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I had a macbook air, it basically destroyed itself due to crappy manufacturing. Then I bought an ASUS G51 and I love it. I have Vista 64/Fedora Core dual boot, I use Vista for gaming and work, and I use Fedora for everything else. The equivalent (literally part for part unless my laptop is better) of my laptop in mac is more than $1000 more...Oh and I have it hooked up to a samsung 30" monitor, which would be another...$500 than what I paid for it for the same panel...And to what V8VENOM said about the people who have money that don't have confidence in MSFT: What about everyone else who isn't loaded? Most people who are really rich are either completely computer savvy(in which case they definitely don't just have macs) or they aren't computer savvy so they use a windows machine because that's what 95% of what the world does. I would NEVER buy a mac again, unless I had twice the amount of money to spare, time to waste on figuring out why I can't install certain software, or just generally wanted to frustrate all my business partners with issues with the proprietary equipment. By the way I'm a sales manager of a computer store...not a fanboy...I just like things that work!
 
[citation][nom]zelannii[/nom]Well, lets take a look: Mac game titles😀nD OnlineWOWCity of Heroes/villiansEverquestDiablo II (and soon III)Starcraft (and soon II)warhammer onlineNeverwinter nights 1 + 2Eve onlineHALODoom 3Command and conquerCall of Duty (all)Civilization seriesAVPFord racingLoTR onlineMedal of Honor seriesSporeQuake 4Age of Empiresmost of Lucas Arts games (and all upcoming ones for PC will be Mac as well)UnrealI could easily go on.....Every upcoming game from EAEvery upcoming game from BlizzardEven TURBINE (aka microsoft) has comitted to releasing every upcoming mass market game for the Mac going forward.Needless to say, this is a lot more than 1% of the gamers out there. (Blizzard confirms 20% of their userbase is Mac users). Why? 2% of PCs come with the graphics capability to run modern PC games. 80% of Macs in the wild can already, and 100% of shipping macs can play most games in at leats low res, with 60% of shipping macs including the most powerful mobile GPU (or better) available now. The Mac user base is actually a MORE attreactive user base for game companies... Mac users typically have more money, have stable hardware, have fewer support calls to game companies over compatabiltiy/performance issues, and more.Oh, and you can always dualboot XP anyway... without needing a second HDD, and without needing to be a PC expert to figure out how (and without loading Linux to be a multi-boot assistant).[/citation]
Funny, I only play one of those mentioned games 😉
My AutoDesk software won't work on it either...
 
Have been using Windows 7 Ultimate. No problems

Have been using Windows Vista since RTM, no problems.

Same thing for XP.

Apple/Jobs, you're not getting any of my money. BITCH !
 
@cruiseoveride
Yes, 7 is less buggier than Vista as you say - this is a good thing. I've run Beta/RC and now RTM 7 and found all versions to be more stable than Vista RTM was. Mind you, it wasn't all MS's fault, a lot of my problems on Vista RTM were Nividia's driver faults, but there were significant other faults and compatibility issues as well.
As far as I can see, 7 is almost always faster and uses less memory, especially in 32bit on the average 2GB ish systems. As well as less system ram usage, it uses a better designed Display model using less memory and is faster(provided your graphics card has a WDDM version 1.1 driver). It also boots etc faster as well. Vista SP2 may have a slight stability advantage, but I've yet to use it as my only Vista machine is on SP1 and I am going to wait until my Win7 is fully "tested" before messing with the Vista machine (this is despite having a backup of it - I just want to make sure I always have one working system at a time) [but there are actually 2 other peoples PCs in my house i could borrow]
 
[citation][nom]zelannii[/nom]Oh, and you can always dualboot XP anyway... without needing a second HDD, and without needing to be a PC expert to figure out how.[/citation]
Have you ever heard partition???
Why you need second HDD???

@dc_webster : +1
 
[citation][nom]Spanky Deluxe[/nom]People that do CAD work on Macs tend to use other software. I admit they're in the minority though. As far as photoshop goes, you're saying you 'only have an E8600' and its faster than your coworkers Mac Pro. It depends what you're doing but Photoshop isn't the most multithreaded aware app out there. In fact, until not very long ago it couldn't utilise more than two cores. In situations like that a 3.33Ghz Core 2 Duo will easily outperform pretty much any Mac Pro apart from the new 2.93GHz Quad or Octo cores. The previous generation Mac Pro had 2.8/3.2GHz Xeon chips that were basically just Core 2 Quads at heart. The new Nehalem Mac Pros are basically Core i7 chips. A faster single or dual core CPU will *always* perform faster than a slower quad or octo based setup if the app being used can't utilise more than one or two cpus at once.Honestly, most people that use Mac Pros for Photoshop would be far better suited using a PC or an iMac. However, they're used to the professional Mac line and so stick with it.[/citation]I'm not disputing the fact that a higher clocked Dual will be Faster than a Quad. I'm using a Q9550 box for VM work for a reason, it is just better to have lots of processor and memory. But to say that use other software doesn't really hold up. The only decent Mac Based CAD app I have used is ArchiCAD which granted was very good, but the UI just felt better on Windows. No one else really supports real apps running through Bootcamp. Just look at Solidworks last I checked it says they don't. In fact if you can find me a decent CAD app for OSX or one supported under bootcamp I would love to try it out. Lets not even get into the fact that you cannot even get a certified OpenGL card in the Mac Pro anymore without buying one yourself and installing, hardly Professional if you ask me. Doesn't sound like it just works either does it? Xeons are mostly used in servers and workstations for a reason they have DP ability and are great for compiling and net code. @v8venom apple stocks went up because of the iPhone craze and the fact that Kramer told people to buy it, nothing more nothing less, I'm pretty sure if he told some people that you should jump off a cliff, because it is a good investment they would do it.
 
I don't understand the Mac owners on here who say Macs are great because of bootcamp; It's like saying "this Toyota is great because you can put Nissan parts in it".

The fact is that by touting the ability to use the competitor's products as a reason to buy a Mac, you're also admitting that OSX doesn't cut it.

If that's the case, why would I buy a Mac if I'm just going to end up using Windows?
 
Upgrade to Windows 7? Most people I know are going to build and/or buy a new system to run Windows 7 to replace their aging XP systems. This runs from the average consumers to IT guys, to hard core gamers. Myself? I'm saving up to build a 64-bit Windows 7 system.
 
Apple can dream on.... they are already using 'PC parts' their time is up and they are basically a OS maker now with the full support of their stand alone peripherals and I-line. Besides that they are a glorified DELL, ASUS, IBM, or even Gigabyte that makes a great OS. Even SONY and Samsung are basically like APPLE but they just dont have a great OS yet.

If these companies were going to spend alot of their budget on marketing, a decent and acceptable OS, and some great Mp3 players, then the integration between products, marketing AND a good OS with customer support, then we will have another "APPLE".

ONE THING TO BE SAID "DO NOT COMPARE AN APPLE TO A PC, ITS JUST A COMPANY WITH A GOOD SOFTWARE, ITS BASICALLY A PC NOW"
 
Apple wont get any of my business until they bring the prices down to PC ones, and we all know when that will be. Never!

Oh and yeah, I do know they reduced prices recently but it was a pathetic drop.
 
So Apple thinks that upgrading to Windows 7 is too complicated for their average user? So even Apple knows that their users are retarded. If you find upgrading to Windows 7 a daunting task, please pay up to 500% on overpriced hardware and a proprietary unix-based operating system that severely lacks third-party support.

It's like they say: If you want to get work done or play games, use Windows in boot camp.
 
I don't understand why there has to be hate with this period. I have been an avid user of bother operating systems for years as I am a network administrator. My job requires that my laptop be a Mac we are a advertising agency. I prefer my laptop to be an Apple. Find me another laptop that gets 7 hours battery life with a dedicated video card and under $1500 oh and also that is under 5lbs. My desktop is an AMD Phenom II x4 965 running Win7 RTM. We all have our uses for each system the good news.... THEY CAN ALL CO-EXIST GET OVER YOURSELVES.
 
[citation][nom]dc_webster[/nom]While Microsoft may have had predatory corporate actions in the past, and have, atleast in the past blissfully successfully glossed over some of their monopolising moves in the market place, I would choose Windows 7 over Mac OSX and the required hardware any day. Here is my take:1. Yes, Microsoft have been rather predatory, doing things that may be considered unfair corporate practises, but in my humble opinion many large corporations make use of their "size" to get more business or to promote their products and there are thousands of corporations that push the boundaries of corporate anti-competiveness etc in thier pursuit of business. So Microsoft is not unique. Apple do similar things to stifyle competition and by design cost Apple users more money. Apple also treat their older users poorly by unnecessarily making things obsolete (somtimes stupid little things, but terribly annoying ones) by removing features or compatibility from hardware or software thereby leaving older customers in the cold and forcing them to find workarounds for particular pieces of hardware for no great reason other than to save production costs or because something more cool is replacing something no longer cool. I don't see this happen nearly as much in the PC world - users are usually given a lot of scope for backwards compatibility for a while for standards than with Apple who seem to make things incompatible at the drop of hat. 2. A lot of Mac proponents claim that their hardware is of a much better quality and that Mac OSX is more stable. Granted, Mac hardware is usually not sh!t, but most of it is off the self PC hardware re-managed - whether it be Hard disks, Graphics cards, Memory etc etc. And while Vista annoyed me for several months at release, OSX Leopard was also a problematic OS and probably saved MS from loosing a percentage of people for the reason that Leopard was bad also. I have friends who reported problems with various Mac hardware regardless of their aluminium cases and have first hand locked up the finder in mac in much the same way Explorer used to lock up in Windows XP. Another Mac loving friend was very dismayed when Leopard turned his PowerMac into a Blue screening POS. (he upgraded from Tiger). But yes, it is fair to say that Mac's are good looking (i.e. the aluminum [which may attmittedly make some products a little more durable]) and most seem to be well designed thermally. For the first time ever, I bought an Apple product (an ipod nano 5G) and there are so many problems with it all over the web and I am probably about to get a second replacement for faulty workmanship (on day 5) - so, all in all, their, "We're a [better quality] hardware company" is imho euphimistic. 3. Many on here have mentioned the "Apple Tax" - basically paying 50%+ for an equivalent computer. When considering point 2. above, Macs are not worth the extra money. Yes they have more included software, but if you're saving $500.00 on a cheaper machine (or $1000+ on bigger ones) you can buy some software for less than that or better yet go open source and do most things for free that Macs have extra in them anyway. (but yes, admittedly, the odd thing in this point on Mac OSX may still be a little better).4. Given the proprietary nature of the machines, you have no real option to choose a more wider range of hardware both at build time (at apple) and when upgrading or when adding additional functionality. Sure, given the off the self nature of many parts you can upgrade some things and still get more into your system. My contention is that becuase of OSX, and perhaps because of other hardware implementations many options are not available to you and if they are, do to lack of competition, they are more expensive. (Someone can correct me here if things have changed lately.) And because of drivers there are many pieces of hardware you simply can not connect / plug in due to the lesser hardware compatibility base of the OS and or hardware. So you have less hardware to consider using and pay more for what you can.5. In terms of backwards compatibility, with Windows 7, I can do the following. In open-source DosBOX, run 90% of DOS productivity software streching back to the 80s. In it I can also play 90% of DOS games from the late 80's and the 90's and play them well. With some small effort, I can get atleast 85% of Windows 9x / XP / Vista games to run natively in Win 7 stretching back to 1995. With Windows XP Mode, while requiring a more expensive version of windows, I should see problematic old accounting software etc that is XP bound run also. And if all else fails you may be able to get your app running in a VM (and yes you can do this on mac). So backwards compatibility is much better in Windows 7 for a larger selection of apps.6. Software selection: Although this may be changing, software selection on Windows would out number Mac 100 to 1. This is especially true for niche and very specific software solutions. (Yes, I know you may be able to use a VM in Mac for this, but the fact is, if in windows already you probably dont need to and they will run more efficientally and in an integrated fashion). For the person who mentioned the 15 ish games available for Mac, there are, and probably will continue to be, 100 times more games on PC than on mac (tho this is changing with mac support gaining much more traction). But at the moment there is probably several thousand more games for PC of all types than there are for Mac. I would consider dual booting a Mac into Windows as a way of running games not nearly as good for two reasons: a. Obvisiouly you have to reboot to play a game b. you can't play the games as well as most PC's as smart built PC's have much better hardware for less. (so you are paying more to do something that is much cheaper and better equiped to do on a PC anyway).7. Even Mac Security gurus will admit that Mac OSX is less secure than Windows 7. Although, its true that Macs are less often attacked and this makes them less of target, it doesnt mean the security is better if someone is having a go at infecting or otherwise tampering with your OS. iPhones are a good example of some poor apple security - its been reported that some business's are reluctant to use iPhones due to their security worries. I beleive OSX is in a similar position tho perhaps not as stark as the iPhone problems reported. I think the popularity of iPhones made them more of a target and showed up apples security holes in that product. The contention seems to be that OSX if targeted may be similarly vunerable.8. My last point goes to flexibility of maintenance and expansion or re-coupling of hardware and software in PCs. Because of points 4 & 5 above, you have much more flexibility to considerably take your PC to pieces and make major changes. This is admittly a bit of rehash of points 4 & 5, but I feel it important to highlight to people considering Mac the great modularity of PC's when maintaining them or for even trying different OS's - like linux or for example, turning your PC parts in to a HTPC by rehousing and using different parts. My point, is that there a world of choice with PCs - there are uses that you can make of them that aren't nearly as easy or pehaps not even possible with a Mac.If anyone can distinctly claim that I am wrong in what I've said, I'd like to hear why my information isn't correct or if its perhaps a little out of date in some of the details or assertions.[/citation]

I want that hour of your life back so I can play more WoW.
 
"Schiller reasons that those running Windows XP machines may view the upgrade to Windows 7 as too complicated and daunting, giving customers a reason to ditch PC for Mac instead."
Yeah... People really think that Mac is sooo similar to Windows XP. This sounds like Apple is TRYING to believe in something that is just not there. XP users have been WAITING for something like Windows 7 since Vista came out. You cannot seriously tell me, even coming from an Apple employee, that you believe that seasoned Windows users really think that switching to a Mac platform is easier than upgrading to Windows 7, which, I might add, has XP mode!!! Schiller are you really that retarded, or are they just paying you very well?
 
XP PC Owner: "Yea, I think I'll go buy a new computer, a Mac maybe..."
*goes to computer store, browses Macs*
XP PC Owner: "WTF??? The cheapest Mac is $1000??? I think I'll take the $200 PC with Printer, Scanner, Screen, mouse, keyboard, tons of [worthless] software, and really fast processor!!!"

(I'm not bashing Macs, but the fact of the matter is that they won't ever be mainstream because the hardware they sell the OS on is expensive. It's just a fact of life. Apple needs to accept it.)
 
[citation][nom]gnookergi[/nom]I want that hour of your life back so I can play more WoW.[/citation]

I tried to be succinct while at the same time state my complete case for sticking with Windows / Windows 7. I guess others have much more simply made the same point. But I wanted to give readers my take on the attractive reasons for staying Windows. Admittley it probably wasn't needed in this forum as most of us here are enthusiasts and know full well what can be done with Windows. I just felt like making the case in writing for others. My apologies if it was time consuming/or seemed condesending to you.
 
well... I wouldn't even consider going from XP to OSX an 'upgrade' just a change.
and I don't care how un-knowledgeable you are, doing a clean install is still less cost and effort than buying a whole new computer.
 
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