Apple Refuses to Fix Smokers' Computers

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[citation][nom]mgilbert[/nom]My business was very successful. I grossed over $400,000 a year during my best years - and I did it on my own - no employees. I got tired of the hours, and the fact that I had no health insurance. My situation changed and I moved out of state, and rejoined the public sector as a technician for the National Library Service's Talking Books program for the deaf and handicapped. I manage the repair and distribution of Talking Book players for the entire state of Kentucky. We have over 5,000 patrons.I always repaired smokers' computers, but I told them the truth about what destroyed the components in their computer, and I charged accordingly. However, if I worked for someone else, I'd refuse to do it. And, no, you can't clean all the contacts - there are several thousand, and the power supplies are usually so full of crud that they have to be replaced. Nicotine damage to contacts is permanent. It eats the coating off the metal! You cannot do a 100% repair on a smoker's computer. A badly damaged one can be made to run, but it will never be reliable.I don't like smokers, and don't befriend or associate with them in any way. I can't stand the stink in their clothes and hair. Smoking is nothing but a legal drug addiction, and it kills more people every year than all other drugs and alcohol combined. Smokers are drug addicts - pure and simple, and I have no use for them.[/citation]
Sorry, but you're digging a bigger hole for yourself with your ridiculous claims. I call into question the veracity of much of what you've said.

First of all, the claim that nicotine damages the contacts is complete nonsense. At worst, it may form a residue that needs to be cleaned before seating a card or memory or a CPU. But many of these contacts are gold (as in the case of CPUs) or gold plated. They use gold because, in addition to being an excellent conductor, gold does not tarish and is non-reactive. In fact, even if you pour acid on gold, it does not corrode. Aqua-regia is one of the few substances that will dissolve or otherwise corrode gold, and I nicotine does not contain concentrated hydrochloric and nitric acid. Additionally, properly seated cards, memory SIMMs and CPUs aren't likely to suffer problems since it is nearly impossible for the relatively large smoke particles to get between the contacts. Though, the unused slots can be fouled, obviously.

Fans would be the most affected by smoke (and dust and pet hair). But fans are cheap. Like I said before, you buy them in bulk; replace them as needed, and press on.

The biggest problem for any computer (as you should know) is heat. The reason dust and pet hair are a problem is because, in addition to clogging ventilation ports, they act as insulators. This is what causes power supplies and other discrete components to fail. Remove the dust and pet hair for starters. Replace any failed fans and perhaps add some additional ones (most computers are under-cooled in my experience). I've saved MANY power supplies but just opening them up, cleaning them out and replacing the fan (most techs won't open a power supply because their afraid of the caps inside... they opt, instead, to just replace the whole thing).

I've being working on computers for over 20 years, and I've never seen one that was DOA that I could definitively say, "this was definitely caused by smoking." It was just as likely caused by ESD, over-heating from dust and/or pet hair, etc.

And you don't need to charge a, "smokers/idiot/jerk/pet pissed" tax. You just charge what the job costs and thank the customer for his/her patronage.

Bunch of whinny, prima dona, pseudo-techs in here, I swear to god!
 
[citation][nom]jellico[/nom]Sorry, but you're digging a bigger hole for yourself with your ridiculous claims. I call into question the veracity of much of what you've said.First of all, the claim that nicotine damages the contacts is complete nonsense. At worst, it may form a residue that needs to be cleaned before seating a card or memory or a CPU. But many of these contacts are gold (as in the case of CPUs) or gold plated. They use gold because, in addition to being an excellent conductor, gold does not tarish and is non-reactive. In fact, even if you pour acid on gold, it does not corrode. Aqua-regia is one of the few substances that will dissolve or otherwise corrode gold, and I nicotine does not contain concentrated hydrochloric and nitric acid. Additionally, properly seated cards, memory SIMMs and CPUs aren't likely to suffer problems since it is nearly impossible for the relatively large smoke particles to get between the contacts. Though, the unused slots can be fouled, obviously.Fans would be the most affected by smoke (and dust and pet hair). But fans are cheap. Like I said before, you buy them in bulk; replace them as needed, and press on.The biggest problem for any computer (as you should know) is heat. The reason dust and pet hair are a problem is because, in addition to clogging ventilation ports, they act as insulators. This is what causes power supplies and other discrete components to fail. Remove the dust and pet hair for starters. Replace any failed fans and perhaps add some additional ones (most computers are under-cooled in my experience). I've saved MANY power supplies but just opening them up, cleaning them out and replacing the fan (most techs won't open a power supply because their afraid of the caps inside... they opt, instead, to just replace the whole thing).I've being working on computers for over 20 years, and I've never seen one that was DOA that I could definitively say, "this was definitely caused by smoking." It was just as likely caused by ESD, over-heating from dust and/or pet hair, etc.And you don't need to charge a, "smokers/idiot/jerk/pet pissed" tax. You just charge what the job costs and thank the customer for his/her patronage.Bunch of whinny, prima dona, pseudo-techs in here, I swear to god![/citation]

I've repaired thousands of computers, and have built thousands more, having been involved with computers since mainframes in the late 70s - some thirty years or so. I know what I've seen. Nicotine and tar are cancer to almost everything in any electronic piece of equipment.

Granted, overheating caused by stopped up airways, and gummed up fans is the number one culprit, but I've seen just about everything there is, including CPU and buss sockets that just wouldn't work...
 
oh noes, i have a swimming pool and apple wont fix my shitty macs because there is chlorine in my pool. oh wait.. i dont use the mac garbage anyways.
 
There are things called Cans of air .. they are simmple to use and can quickly eliminate any dust that builds up on vent holes




again get a can of air , or if you are thorough like me , you can remove your cpu fan fromthe ehat sink every month for a good cleaning , it's really not that hard to do



Total BS, so is the myth that smoking will decrease your HD life expectancy. HD'sa re sealed for magnetic reason this sealing is also impervious to dust and .... air borne polluttants including... (drum roll) Smoke ! my proof I have two computers that have both beena round smokers for their entire life , 1 is 10 years old and teh otehr is 6 years old , both comps have enver had a hard drive die , so those ahrd drives are also that age , the "myth" states that if you smoke around a comp your Hd will only last 2.5 years. yet these comps have beena round smoking non stop and both have out lasted even the normal 5 eyar expectancy for HD life. so agan i call BS on this one.




this again is another horse *** myth nicotine is a drug , deadly poisionus in it's pure form yes , but cigarettes do not provide this pure form . it is certainly NOT an acid , so quit puling mularky out your rear (oh adn tar isnt an acid either it is just sticky



the only credible thing you have said , floppy drives and floppies are not sealed like an HD so eys they can get damaged... but serious when is teh alst time you ahve used a floppy ??? for that matter even if you ahd to replace a floppy they only cost a measly 4-6 dollars now.



again i call bs, you have any clue just how many years of collecting it's would take to get even 1 gram of pure nicotine from smoke -tar build up ???? you will likely go through about 12 computer generations in that time frame. and again cleaning your PC every month with a can of air will get rid of this build up long long before it is ever a health hazard hell some one can smoke 50 years of thier life and you could scrape the tar out of thier lungs and not come up with 1 gram of pure nicotine (no one has every died from "nicotine poisoning " from smoking , they have died from heart problems, lung issues and cancer but never poisioning from "nicotine collecting"


Look don't get me wrong, i agree smoking is bad , and i personally would quit if it were that easy to do so , (i have tried in the past).
i just hate this whole "exile" mentality peopel have towards smokers. cigarettes are a drug and most smokers are addicted both physically and mentally. you don';t help them by disqualifying them from perks the rest of society gets , nor do you help by defending those that do , with blatantly stupid and exagerated myths. what apple did is plain wrong period they no it and thier silence shows that they know tia dn are likely already rewriting thier EULA for it now so they can jump up and say they are righ. and that is wrong no matter how you look at it. persoanlly i'd rather you just come out and say "smoking is bad for you let me help you quit " instead of comming up with all sorts of mythological BS reasons (tied to their computer usage) , for some one to stop smoking


its funny when chain smokers try to defend there smoking . snap back to reality man smoking can still damage electronic equipment no matter how many times you like saying BS.
 
And notice how if somebody don't smoke they have zero compassion for others rights.

any why would they. its there own fault that they listened to some losers that got them smoking in the first place. smoking is a choice and i just laugh when smokers complain about there rights getting taken away. well newsflash, we are not the ones that were stupid enough to listen to the deadbeat kids back in high school that were ruining there own lives.

and this is why i laugh at the people trying to defend the person who can't get there mac fixed because of smoking
 
[citation][nom]captaincharisma[/nom]its funny when chain smokers try to defend there smoking . snap back to reality man smoking can still damage electronic equipment no matter how many times you like saying BS.[/citation]

Yes, if smokers cleaned their computers every month, the damage could be held to a minimum. Air would be able to flow, but fans would still die prematurely. BUT, they don't and won't do it! By the time a technician gets a hold of it, the damage is done, and it is often severe.

Yes, smoke destroys floppy drives - but it also destroys DVD/RW drives. and you are right about hard drives - I never said otherwise.

Get all caught up in the semantics with regards to exactly what it is in cigarettes that kills if you want, but the following facts remain...

The average smoker dies 14 years younger.
The average smoker is 25 times more likely to get lung cancer.
Of those that do get cancer, only one in seven will still be alive at the five year mark.
Smoking kills 400,000 Americans a year.
I could go on and on...

As to Apple's decision, I agree with them. If you knowing damage your computer during the warranty period whether it be with a baseball bat, a gallon of water, or with hundreds of cigarettes, you deliberately and knowingly damaged the computer, and the warranty is voided, period. I don't see how anybody could fail to understand that. It's pretty simple.
 
[citation][nom]mgilbert[/nom]I've repaired thousands of computers, and have built thousands more, having been involved with computers since mainframes in the late 70s - some thirty years or so. I know what I've seen. Nicotine and tar are cancer to almost everything in any electronic piece of equipment.Granted, overheating caused by stopped up airways, and gummed up fans is the number one culprit, but I've seen just about everything there is, including CPU and buss sockets that just wouldn't work...[/citation]
Cancer in electronics? My god, man, do you even know what cancer is? It is a group or groups of fast-growing cells which end up displacing and destroying tissues and organs which a person or animal needs really badly in order to not be dead.

I can believe that cigarette smoke was a much bigger problem with mainframes back in the 70s. Those machines put out so much damn heat, they needed to be in air-conditioned rooms (of course, so do modern, large-scale servers). The manufacturing processes back then were still primitive as hell (and of course, the electric grid was not as well conditioned as it is today).

Now granted, I wouldn't want smokers hanging out in the server room. Likewise, I would want the room air to be treated with a HEPA filtration unit and the proper relative humidity to be maintained. However, for home or business computers, you would expect them to be in a much harsher environment. This is why the PC life cycle is anywhere from 4 - 7 years. Hell, Intel and AMD give their CPUs a rating of 30,000 - 50,000 hours under ambient conditions (that's 3.4 - 5.7 years running 24/7). Sure, you can get much more life out of a PC and many people do. But most people are ready to chuck their old machines after a few years of use because they are ready for a new and faster one. Businesses have fully depreciated their machines after 5 years, so at that point, they are worthless anyway (yeah, I know about the small residual value, but for computer hardware that old, they are effectively worthless). The only thing of lasting value on a computer is the data, and hard drives are sealed units which are not affected by smoke or dust or pet hair (other than heat issues which may arise from dust and pet hair accumulation on the surface).

So, like I and other have already said, it really is not a major issue because the computers are just not in service long enough for any sort of corrosion or other physical degredation to occur.
 
[citation][nom]nelsonngyw[/nom]Apple has always been very snobish about itself, since the days of it's formation. This is one of the main reasons I refuses to buy a SINGLE Apple product. Each sale will only boost Apple's snobishness.So what's next? "Apple refuses to fix a customer's computer after they found porn movies in the harddisk and believes that (stale) biohazard wastes left after a porn session is hazardous to the health and well-being of it's staff ...." LOL!!!![/citation]
 
With regards to the exile mentality, maybe this will help you understand: Most of us who avoid smokers don't do it because we disagree with your smoking. I don't look down on smokers. I sympathize - I've lost loved ones to the addiction. The satanic cigarette companies spike cigarettes with poisons to make them even more addictive!

It's the stench I can't handle. If I get within 20 feet of a heavy smoker, even when they are not smoking, my eyes start to burn. I cannot hang out with a smoker - even when they aren't smoking, the stench from their hair, skin, and clothes is unbearable. I cannot ride in a car that has ever been smoked in. I cannot go into a smoker's house. Everything in you life smells terribly...
 
I've been a computer tech for about fifteen years and can attest that it royally sucks to work on the computer of a smoker. All computers are dusty..but a computer that has been subjected to long term smoke is a different kind of dusty. The dust is thicker, sticky, and stinks. It gums up fans and heatsinks and forms a sticky dusty coating on all the components inside the computer. Other than the obvious biohazard part, it's mainly a thermal problem, since the dust sticks as opposed to just settling.

It is true that they fix the same as any other computer (assuming they haven't overheated and fried), but let me assure you that when you take the canned air or air compressor to these filthy machines, you'll wish for an air mask. It is a contaminant and CAN'T be good for you.

Consequently, I've primarily worked on PCs, but the one mac I did work on...was from the home of a heavy smoker. It was horrible..all yellowed and sticky. You don't even have to open these machines up to tell...the outside has...that feeling to it.

On the other hand...Apple needs to honor their warranty regardless.
 
Smoking is for idiots or extremely weak willed individualts and is costing EVERYONE a fortune in health care services to keep those that smoke alive. Glad Apple deny smokers warranty, as it should be given the cost smokers incur on a society.

Back to the reality, smoke shortens the life of computer components, especially hard drives. When they make computer components what do you see?? You see people dressed head to toe in surgical outfits with masks on and gloves and a very expensive air filtration system. Why, because these devices are EXTREMELY sensitive to any particulate matter (that includes smoke).

Smoking should be banned period, it's a massive resource drain on a society that is already economically strapped.

And no this isn't a "Free" planet so get over that concept.

Maybe someday Tom's will start to actually post meaningful articles relating to Macs. Informative ones rather than these childish recurring ones -- educate their audience which clearly NEEDS educating. The only reason I can see why Tom's continues on with the Apple vs. PC is because Tom's is heavily funded by Microsoft. Otherwise, it would be foolish for a "hardware" web site to not actively post hardware information on both platforms.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/01/21results.html

Oh look, Apple actually post real numbers about sales and financial status other than Microsoft's (Ballmers) saying sales are "fantastic" with ZERO evidence/data to back that up.

Tom's editors and writes, when are you folks gonna WAKE UP and smell the coffee??? I'm just getting bored of these "hit" generating articles to try on roust "conflict" of opinions with the same old Mac vs. PC debate.

 
They accepted the money for the warranty, and warranties are typically 50% pure profit...now, after being paid, they don't want to have to actually DO the work.

It appears that there is legal standing for a suit, and here is the nuance: just because there may have BEEN an improper environment doesn't mean the improper environment CAUSED the issue.

Read on.

On another forum, someone posted this:


http://consumerist.com/2009/11/smoking-near-apple-computers-creates-biohazard-voids-warranty.html#reset

Crim Law Geek
November 23, 2009 5:31 PMFlag for review @chiieddy:
I argued against this clause in arbitration when I sued Apple for jerking me around on an AppleCare repair. A plain reading of the clause says that only the damage caused by the improper environment, etc is not covered, NOT that the warranty becomes void if there is an improper environment or evidence of abuse.

Thus, if I drop my computer and break the trackpad, the screen is still covered if it dies independently of that drop (i.e. several months later). Alternatively, if, as happened to me, something breaks on the computer (which Apple didn't fix right), the I drop the laptop and dent the case, the first thing is covered by the warranty, but the dented case is not.

The only provision of the AppleCare contract that provides for cancellation of the warranty requires Apple to refund the cost of the AppleCare on a pro-rata basis minus the cost of any repairs previous done under AppleCare. Without Apple paying, they cannot void the AppleCare warranty in its entirety without being in breach of the contract.

Since it's Apple that is saying that smoking caused the damage to the computer, they are the ones who have to prove it.

I suggest the OPs take this to their local small claims court. FWIW, I won $830 from Apple using this very argument. I would be happy to forward them a copy of my written complaint to the Court which sets down my argument regarding the contract. The Court/arbitrator ignored my (beautifully written) complaint because written complaints/motions are not allowed in Small Claims in New York, but it is a good summary of my argument regarding Apple's "voiding" of AppleCare.

----------------

quote ends.

Take 'em to court, and make it HUMILIATING for them. It's the only way Apple will EVER get over its own hubris. Either that, or they have deep pockets, which just happen to contain warranty payments that were supposed to have ALREADY PAID FOR THE WORK. Empty them.
 
Hope they plan on sending a refund check to EVERY smoker who bought the extended warranty. And they need to do it like soon, before a class action is brought to court. Then the need to start informing every buyer of apple products at the point of sale of the smoking policy prior to them PAYING apple money for these products.
I personally hope you go down for this one apple.
 
[citation][nom]V8VENOM[/nom]Smoking is for idiots or extremely weak willed individualts and is costing EVERYONE a fortune in health care services to keep those that smoke alive. Glad Apple deny smokers warranty, as it should be given the cost smokers incur on a society.Back to the reality, smoke shortens the life of computer components, especially hard drives. When they make computer components what do you see?? You see people dressed head to toe in surgical outfits with masks on and gloves and a very expensive air filtration system. Why, because these devices are EXTREMELY sensitive to any particulate matter (that includes smoke)...[/citation]

first! Based on your comment obviously you cant be a psychologist ! so please, dont make such theories about smokers 😉

and second! Mr. Educated! every company HAS TO report its financial status report with facts and numbers to its shareholders, Mr. Ballmer cant just "say sales are "fantastic" with ZERO evidence/data to back that up" !!
really, how old are you?! you give a link to Apple's first quarter of 2009 financial report, and claim Microsoft doesnt have one?!

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/jan09/01-22fy09Q2earnings.mspx

and third! yeah tomshardware are funded by Microsoft! maybe you didnt read mr m.y's articles/news ! i bet he is actually one of the biggest Microsoft shareholders...!

and about those people in "surgical outfits (!!!)"! just LOL!
 
Smoke is bad for computers, it bonds to the pcb's and can actually cause shorts if the build up is too great. It will also seal fan bearings and cover heatsinks causing damage. I refuse to work on computers that have a film of smoke residue on them, it's just plain stupid to smoke around electronics, but then, we have the smokers themselves.....
 
[citation][nom]V8VENOM[/nom]Smoking is for idiots or extremely weak willed individualts and is costing EVERYONE a fortune in health care services to keep those that smoke alive. Glad Apple deny smokers warranty, as it should be given the cost smokers incur on a society.Back to the reality, smoke shortens the life of computer components, especially hard drives. When they make computer components what do you see?? You see people dressed head to toe in surgical outfits with masks on and gloves and a very expensive air filtration system. Why, because these devices are EXTREMELY sensitive to any particulate matter (that includes smoke).Smoking should be banned period, it's a massive resource drain on a society that is already economically strapped.And no this isn't a "Free" planet so get over that concept.
[...remaining blather deleted for brevity...][/citation]

Congratulations. You win the award for biggest idiot on the Tom's forums.

Ok, to address your "points"

Smoking is stupid. Unfortunately, that crap is more addictive than heroine. People usually start when they are teens because of peer pressure, and then end up regretting it later in life.

It doesn't cost everyone a fortune in healthcare costs because, a) smokers pay pretty hefty taxes for their habit in most states; b) the tobacco companies have forked over billions of dollars to various states to settle unproven increases in health care expenses to those states; c) as you pointed out, smokers die younger which means they are pretty much only treated for emphesema and COPD (lung cancer is not a lead cause of death, contrary to popular belief). The treatments for those conditions are relatively inexpensive. In fact, it is far more expensive to take care of people who live much longer and begin developing a myriad of age-related health problems.

Smoke doesn't damage hard drives. We've been over this in several threads which you clearly didn't read since you just wanted to get in here and spout your illconceived and unsupported opinions.

People don't dress in "surgical outfits" to make computers. They wear what are colloquially called bunny-suits when they are in the FAB (semi-conductor fabrication facilities). The die (silicon wafers on which the CPUs are "printed") are extremely susceptible to damage from even microscopic particles... hence, the cleanroom. However, once they are packaged (placed in a ceramic or metal housing with gold pins or contacts for interface to the motherboard) they are completely sealed and can no longer be damaged by dust or pet hair or smoke. You could toss them in the sand (or in an ashtray) and then pull them out, clean them off and install them. So long as you do not physically or ESD damage the pins/contacts or the package, the CPU will not be harmed.

Maybe smoking should be banned. It is, however, NOT a resource drain. You're showing your ignorance once again. It is, however, a big part of our national and global economy, both through sale and through taxation. It would be FAR more harmful to ban it.

Saying that it is not a free planet is a platitude, not a point a fact (actually, nothing you have said is a point of fact, so at least your are consistant).

I'll ignore the rest of your drooling, Apple-fanboi, ranting. If you want more "meaningful" Apple articles, go hang out on their forums with the other sycophants. You can rest assured you will never see dissenting opinions about Apple there... at least, not for very long.
 
OMFG Apple sux.....Breathing the air is prolly more dangerous to your health then handling a smokers computer. Give me a break. Apple can smoke my pole before I would ever buy one of their POS computers.
 
Smoking is stupid. Unfortunately, that crap is more addictive than heroine. People usually start when they are teens because of peer pressure, and then end up regretting it later in life.

being a teen is no excuse. your basically saying teens are stupid.

i agree with the rest of the points you shot down. whoever was making those is either stupid or a mac fanboy but do not tell me that many years of smoking cannot damage a computer
 
I think this is awesome. I hate having to put on a bio-hazard suit every time I work on a nasty smoker PC. If cattle ranchers have to pay a cow fart tax for methane, then smoking idiots should pay pollution tax also.
 
This will be settled out of court. Apple is too blatantly wrong for them to allow this to go on their trial record. Their lawyers will just tell them to settle for whatever they want.
 
The computer is sold as a whole. If one component of a computer (the chassis) has accidental damage and the hard drive fails due to a manufacturer defect then the manufacturer is under no obligation to fix the problem.
 
I don't blame apple. I've seen some horrific, horrific stuff just from smoke. It isn't normal dust, it is this thick tar dust that stops fans dead in their tracks. That, of course, is the problem.
 
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