(ask) Ageia PhysX with PCI Express x1

xlimit

Distinguished
Apr 16, 2006
21
0
18,510
0
Is there any plan that Ageia will release PhysX card with PCI Express x1 in 2007, PCI Xpress will give more bandwith
 

slicessoul

Distinguished
Apr 18, 2006
771
0
18,980
0
I don't know if Ageia still developing this card since Nvidia releasing those GeForce 8 series which integrates Quantum Effects (similar as parallel processing as PhysX) and CUDA, so IMO, peoples prefer on buying "all-in-one" card that can "play" everything than PhysX card which only support some games and still need a separate GPU card.

But who knows ? Maybe they'll do some breakthrough and i hope they'll make a "boom"...
 

shabodah

Distinguished
Apr 10, 2006
747
0
18,980
0
The original Physx cards have the PCI connection on one side and the PCIe 1x on the other, you just flipped them around to install them either way. They've already developed it, so I simply cannot understand why they didn't release it that way.
 

SciFiMan

Distinguished
Apr 19, 2006
385
0
18,790
3
Because the old PCI slot still has plenty of bandwidth for the data that card needs to move. Just like AGP 8x still hasn't been saturated by current games. At least not that I've ever heard of in the headlines.
 

krisz

Distinguished
Nov 28, 2006
441
0
18,780
0
I would not waste my money on physics card. If it would be something that revolutionizes gaming than by now everyone would have one. But i have not seen too many titles that actually takes advantage on it at all. And if that trend continues i rely on my new 8800 GTX card to handle that few titles physics requirements that are going to take advantage on it. If any. To me physics cards sounds like the new killer Network card that reduces lag and latency for $260 US and actually the card is useless. You barely gain anything with it. It is just another one of those lets make some money somewhere by slapping a made for gamers name on a piece of hardware. Again that's just my opinion, and i didn't mean to offend anybody with it.
 

sviola

Distinguished
Mar 9, 2006
313
0
18,780
0
Ageia has already announced a PCI-E x1 version of the PhysX card.

On the success of the card, I think it'll start selling better when UT2007 comes out.

The board is already selling at $179.99 at newegg and you get a coupon for 3 games (Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, Bet on Soldier: Blood of Sahara and City of Villains), which add about $100 value. And more games are coming out that uses it.

About G80 physics, will the budget and mid-level cards have it? The GTX and GTS are high-end models and quite expensive, unless the 8200 - 8600 can play physics without affecting the graphics portion, I doubt that this solution will work very well.
 

shabodah

Distinguished
Apr 10, 2006
747
0
18,980
0
I think physics is a great idea, but first gen just about everything do poorly. I'll wait it out till a real format is decided on. Just like the issue with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, it's not important to me right now, maybe it will be in 2 years or so...
 

krisz

Distinguished
Nov 28, 2006
441
0
18,780
0
I think physics is a great idea, but first gen just about everything do poorly. I'll wait it out till a real format is decided on. Just like the issue with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, it's not important to me right now, maybe it will be in 2 years or so...
I agree physics is an awesome idea i just wish more developers take advantage on it because as it is now it seems just like another way of wasting money on hardware that never going to be used by software titles. Other than those few thats out there now. Physics cards are on the market for a while now that game developers could have take advantage on them if they really wanted to. I hope Vista and DX10 will change that around a bit and we will see some titles that will really use physics, and will make such a radical difference so people will want to get those physics cards because there will be a reason why.
 

3lfk1ng

Distinguished
Jun 28, 2006
681
0
18,980
0
Ageia = Failure, don't bother wasting any money on anything Ageia releases.

Nvidia & ATI are going to take the physx market and do a much much better job and have much much more support.
 

sviola

Distinguished
Mar 9, 2006
313
0
18,780
0
Ageia = Failure, don't bother wasting any money on anything Ageia releases.

Nvidia & ATI are going to take the physx market and do a much much better job and have much much more support.
Will they? Don't you think it's still too soon to say that? UT2007 isn't even out (and it uses PhysX as it's physics engine, and, well it may attract a lot of buyers to buy Ageia's board, which is already being sold at 179.99 and probably will sell even cheaper soon), and noone has seen any support to Nvidia's or ATi solutions (actually, I'd like to see their solutions working on a game)...I'd wait a bit longer before stating such things.
 

shabodah

Distinguished
Apr 10, 2006
747
0
18,980
0
Developers have no choice but to support Nvidia and Ati/Amd. The problem with physics is much like what 3dfx had to go through when they brought the first GPU (gamer's GPU anyway) to market. It's chicken or the egg, all over again. If you want to sell to the most people, you do go down to a lower (not lowest, Intel's IGP FTL...) denomenator, and that kicks the idea to the curb until it's more mainstream, giving those already with good position (those making GPU's currently) even more leverage than they already had.
 

sviola

Distinguished
Mar 9, 2006
313
0
18,780
0
Developers have no choice but to support Nvidia and Ati/Amd. The problem with physics is much like what 3dfx had to go through when they brought the first GPU (gamer's GPU anyway) to market. It's chicken or the egg, all over again. If you want to sell to the most people, you do go down to a lower (not lowest, Intel's IGP FTL...) denomenator, and that kicks the idea to the curb until it's more mainstream, giving those already with good position (those making GPU's currently) even more leverage than they already had.
Well, I don't see it this way...after all, ATi has no working solution on the market and Nvidia's solution is a $550-$700 solution which only enthusiasts will buy. And I would rather wait for both compnies to have afordable physics solution before calling a winner here (want to see how a 8200 or a 8600 will fare with physics and graphics at the same time and also see the pricing on the physX by the time those cards are out).
 

shabodah

Distinguished
Apr 10, 2006
747
0
18,980
0
I'm not calling any side a "winner." Just pointing out the difficulties and strengths the different components have. I think ATI has the advantage on things once their 2xxx series cars are out, but that's just my opinion.
 

konfuzd

Distinguished
May 18, 2006
42
0
18,530
0
Neither ATI/AMD or nvidia seem to be working on a physics engine, so my guess is they're waiting on either havok fx to pick up or microsoft to make a decision on direct physics. Since havok fx doesn't seem to have any support, that leaves ageia all alone in the hardware accelerated physics market. Since they're giving their SDK to anyone who pledges support for the PPU, I see many a small firm choosing ageia to save some money now that the PPU has dropped to a more reasonable price.

For the PPU, you have a product that has no timeframe or replacement in development. Sure ageia is allowing their partners to finally make 1x PCIe boards, but there's not really a need for them or any physx card yet since there's nothing physx specific about the physx card (the entire physx engine exists in software and certain calculations are offloaded to the physx card). But, in the end the entire venture hinges on next gen consoles.

Though neither the ps3 or 360 posess a PPU, ageia has "certified" them to be able to fully support their physx software thanks to their abundance of computing power. With unreal engine 3 making use of physx and a popular game called gears of war making good use of unreal engine 3, the PPU could be 1 port away from popularity.

Finally, don't bring GRAW into this. It's a craptastically programed game that uses both havok and physx simultaneously, doubling the CPU requirement when the physx card is present. A good example is city of villans because it only uses the physx engine and sees a large performance boost from the PPU.

Just my $0.02
 

krisz

Distinguished
Nov 28, 2006
441
0
18,780
0
Finally, don't bring GRAW into this. It's a craptastically programed game that uses both havok and physx simultaneously, doubling the CPU requirement when the physx card is present.
Actually GRAW was so far the best game released that uses any kind of phisics card. The online play at least is a lot of fun. I don't even want to hear about Bet On Soldier. That was a pile of crap.
 

konfuzd

Distinguished
May 18, 2006
42
0
18,530
0
Finally, don't bring GRAW into this. It's a craptastically programed game that uses both havok and physx simultaneously, doubling the CPU requirement when the physx card is present.
Actually GRAW was so far the best game released that uses any kind of phisics card. The online play at least is a lot of fun. I don't even want to hear about Bet On Soldier. That was a pile of crap.

I'm not saying graw wasn't a good game, just that it's performance with the physx card was less than spectacular. It stinks of physx being tacked on at the end.

Neither ATI/AMD or nvidia seem to be working on a physics engine
If ATI's current hardware can do Folding @ Home so well, it's only a hop, skip, and a jump to Physics acceleration.

It's not that ATI/AMD and nvidia's next gen video cards can't do physics, just no one seems to be taking advantage of that capabillity.
 

shabodah

Distinguished
Apr 10, 2006
747
0
18,980
0
It's not that ATI/AMD and nvidia's next gen video cards can't do physics, just no one seems to be taking advantage of that capabillity.
No one's taking advantage of Nvida's, ATI's, or Ageia's, and heck, four cores can do some physics without needing a GPU, although not nearly as well as the other options.
 

unsmart

Distinguished
Dec 30, 2005
210
0
18,680
0
I remember ageia saying physx won't benefit much from pci-e. It can't use that much bandwidth, the techs just not that good. If they where smart they would make a card that uses system mem like hypercashe does and sell the card for $100 or less. The only chance they have is if they cut the price or integrate on to the motherboard. They should beg someone to buy them and do something good with there ideas.
 

shabodah

Distinguished
Apr 10, 2006
747
0
18,980
0
It's not just a bandwidth issue, it's also a latency issue. Latency can kill framerates pretty fast, that's why you don't see GPU's with real slow Ram.
 
Ageia = Failure, don't bother wasting any money on anything Ageia releases.

Nvidia & ATI are going to take the physx market and do a much much better job and have much much more support.
agreed there, nvidia and ati will give multiple generations and mainstream the idea with more frequent driver updates.
 

unsmart

Distinguished
Dec 30, 2005
210
0
18,680
0
what always bugged me was that ageias so tight lipped about specs. Who really knows what this thing can do. From what if heard the card makers have put stuff on it the core can't fully use just so it looks better, Like ddr3 [do you remember the 256mb cards that got pulled] and now pci-e. I think there coming out with pci-e at the beginning of next year. I hope some of the games that are exclusively physx will switch to a more open physic engine. Because cellfator looks killer.
 

Valtiel

Distinguished
Feb 28, 2005
1,170
0
19,280
0
Ageia = Failure, don't bother wasting any money on anything Ageia releases.

Nvidia & ATI are going to take the physx market and do a much much better job and have much much more support.
Will they? Don't you think it's still too soon to say that? UT2007 isn't even out (and it uses PhysX as it's physics engine, and, well it may attract a lot of buyers to buy Ageia's board, which is already being sold at 179.99 and probably will sell even cheaper soon), and noone has seen any support to Nvidia's or ATi solutions (actually, I'd like to see their solutions working on a game)...I'd wait a bit longer before stating such things.

If UT2007 came out and it needed (or liked) a PhysX card wouldn't that drive up prices as more people bought them?
 

Similar threads


ASK THE COMMUNITY