Atheism Discussion

[JAYDEEJOHN]

One thing, you cant have faith in atheism if you base your observations on fact/knowledge/experience

 

[anwaypasible]

Sorry, I should've clarified. I was referring to the single celled organism, that they try and claim that we evolved from.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100513-science-evolution-darwin-single-ancestor/

you keep saying 'celled' and i keep thing 'multiple cells'
but
maybe i am thinking of 'multiple atoms'
because a single cell is much larger than an atom, and should seriously contain a lot of atoms.

i said it before, if you stop thinking about us evolving from cells.. then you get the opportunity to think about individual atoms being created and possibly electrically charged, and thus getting connected with other atoms.. thus creating molecules.. thus creating the molecular chart.. thus allowing many many more things to be possible.


i just hate to see somebody starving.. so if you needed it, consider what i said above.
if you start from the right spot, it all works out better.
talking about cells isnt the right spot when it is easier to think about how atoms were created.

 

[wanamingo]

Sorry but what is this discussion about? Seriously im not trolling or trying to be difficult but when I check in on this thread I feel lost.

Focus your thoughts gentlemen. Point counter point. Tort re-tort.

 

[anwaypasible]

well if you were following the thread post for post.. you would have read how we pretty much obliterated the original question.
not much left to do silly :lol:

but anyways.. sounds like an ad hominem attack to me.

'ad hominem' - an attempt to link the truth of a claim to a negative characteristic or belief of the person advocating it.

truth of claim = everything we have been talking about
negative characteristic or belief = your saying that those involved in the thread have not answered the original question, and thus we are not done.. meaning we should continue to attack the original question.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.

 

[Reynod]

Yes it was a discussion on athiesm mingo ...

 

[aford10]

you keep saying 'celled' and i keep thing 'multiple cells'
but
maybe i am thinking of 'multiple atoms'
because a single cell is much larger than an atom, and should seriously contain a lot of atoms.

i said it before, if you stop thinking about us evolving from cells.. then you get the opportunity to think about individual atoms being created and possibly electrically charged, and thus getting connected with other atoms.. thus creating molecules.. thus creating the molecular chart.. thus allowing many many more things to be possible.


i just hate to see somebody starving.. so if you needed it, consider what i said above.
if you start from the right spot, it all works out better.
talking about cells isnt the right spot when it is easier to think about how atoms were created.

Starving? No, I eat just fine. [:aford10:7]

I said single celled organisms, for a reason. If you noticed that link I posted, it happens to be a main theory behind the evolution of all living creatures. Single celled organism, not multiple atom theory.

 

[aford10]

Sorry but what is this discussion about? Seriously im not trolling or trying to be difficult but when I check in on this thread I feel lost.

Focus your thoughts gentlemen. Point counter point. Tort re-tort.

Read and try to follow along. It was actually on topic, with a small tangent at the same time. Some deep stuff....

 

[Reynod]

/facepalm

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

A few more quotes

I gave in, and admitted that God was God.

If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.

If we cut up beasts simply because they cannot prevent us and because we are backing our own side in the struggle for existence, it is only logical to cut up imbeciles, criminals, enemies, or capitalists for the same reasons.

Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.


Part of every misery is, so to speak, the misery's shadow or reflection: the fact that you don't merely suffer but have to keep on thinking about the fact that you suffer. I not only live each endless day in grief, but live each day thinking about living each day in grief.

Telling us to obey instinct is like telling us to obey 'people.' People say different things: so do instincts. Our instincts are at war... Each instinct, if you listen to it, will claim to be gratified at the expense of the rest.

This, to me, are some of the understandings and witticisms of what I consider the greatest Christian writer

I think his walk with God taught him well

 

[dogman_1234]

faith is when something is disproven, and has never been proven before in the past.
t

Wrong.

Faith IS acknowledging something based on personal will and self-processing of the environment,( like the bar and the beer aford had given,) and waiting for the output, consequence, ect...

It is normal for humans to be subject to anticipating something based on what they feel. Normal.

 

[Reynod]

Don't worry that you can't explain everything in the universe because the universe doesn't worry about it ... it just is.

The biggest problem humanity has is the undeniable fact that we are mere bugs on the winscreen that is the universe ... we are so insignificant in fact that statistically we just don't exist ... yet we do ... and we want to feel special.

We are not at the centre of the galaxy ... nor (hypothetically) at the centre of the universe.

The sad thing is we have a big brain and yet are unable to deal with the fact that we die and go back into the ground ... seems such a waste.

Thats why it is important to leave a legacy.

I'm working on improving the basic design of the paperclip ...

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Of all the creatures, only man knows of death

As far as significance and the universe, its again, only man that does/thinks this, and as far as being in the center, no one knows.

Another simple quote as to mans so called abilites

What we call Man's power over Nature turns out to be a power exercised by some men over other men with Nature as its instrument.

Just like global warming, its been tried in many other so called facts.
People of non faith should be harder to be convinced of such things, since the facts are their main drive.
Whats interesting is, I find it the opposite
Its like an atheist scientist, whos peering into a microscope atop stacked books, on top, the bible, where he claims "I think Ive found the meaning of life"

 

[shredder777]

Look believing in an omnipotent ruler is of no use. When people invented god they had no science and that is why people invented a god so they could understand life and so when they died they could die with hope. That however is idiotic even more so today because we actually have alternative theories which are much better. Not Perfect. Not yet.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

And I say, people think of it nowadays as a spaceship, simply because theyre lacking in Gods presence.

If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.

So, observation is limited to the here and now, on earth, as we see it.
A higher being would truly know the difference, and those that spoke to this Higher Being tell a different story from spaceships and the world

 

[wanamingo]

I think people created 'God' because that was the only way they could describe what they were witnessing.

". .. there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the sound of the trumpet was exceedingly loud;* and all of the people that were in the camp trembled. And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the lower part of the mountain. And Mount Sinai was altogether covered with smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke from the fire billowed upwards like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly. GENESIS 19:16-19

They had to describe it this way because there was no word for 'spaceship' in that time. They were just describing what they were seeing the best they could.

"And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the moun-tain smoking: and when the people saw it, they moved away and stood far off. GENESIS 20:18"

"And the Lord travelled before them [the Hebrew tribes] by day in a pillar of cloud, to lead them the way; by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, or the pillar of fire by night, from in front of the people. EXODUS 13:21-22"

Identical descriptions appear in Exodus and Numbers as well. Think about trying to describe a 'rocketship' in ancient times. It would probably appear similar to the above don't you think?

Im on page 203 of The Gods of Eden and I find it very interesting. I do feel that in some spots of the book though the facts are stretched rather thin. Also citations into a lot of the material he is referencing would be nice.

 

[aford10]

I think people created 'God' because that was the only way they could describe what they were witnessing.

You're forgetting about all the witnessed accounts of Jesus performing various miracles (walking on water, raiding the dead, healing the blind, feeding of 5000...etc). Those weren't space ships that were misunderstood. It is said that he brought the word of God with him, and spread it through his life. The religion wasn't created. But those who don't believe, won't accept this anyway.....As I mentioned before, you either believe it, or you don't.

 

[aford10]

If I perfomred CPR on an unconcious person and brought them back, would I not be seen as raising the dead?

Have you ever performed CPR on a man who has been dead for 4 days? That would be something to see......

 

[aford10]

@wanamingo
Please don't post links to profane clips, or quote them.

 

[wanamingo]

First off I respect my moderator overlords. I will replace profane words with less profane ones.

Bill Hicks is one of if not the best comedian of our time.

 

[wanamingo]

Performing CPR on a person 4 days dead seems like something on rotten.com, but if thats what floats your boat.......

@Oldman- Totally agree imagine firing up laptop and show someone pictures of space travel, airplanes, the moon, nuclear explosion, etc. If they didnt kill you for being a witch.

Archur C. Clarke said

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

The last survivor from the civil war died in 1951-1953. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasant_Crump When they were born you used horse and buggy, single shot muskets, no idea about the moon or space travel. Then this guy lives through Civil War,WWI, WWII,Spanish-American war, the plane(all the way from Wright Bros, to prop, to jet to, flying around the world)Invention of automatic weapons, Nuclear weapons, was on the cusp of human spaceflight.

My point being that in 100 years science essentially created magic for people who have no concept of advanced science.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

OK, try this
It is known that the original serpent in the garden had legs
It walked on all fours, with its stomache up away from the ground, just like the dinos

After mans fall, the eating of the apple, God also cursed the serpent and all those like his kind, by making him crawl accross his belly and eating the dust of the earth
Now, this coincides with dinos and what we have today

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

In those days, knowledge will increase

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

There is a time for everything
They essentually disobeyed God, by eating from that tree, which is sin.
In other words, away from God and His ways are sinful

The serpent knew better, and was siding with that knowledge in its own time, its punishment was what its consequences were, by once again, disobeying God, and introducing sin in man and the world
This is where believers think diseases started as well

It paints the picture sin is death, or being without God has an end, but with Him, eternal life.
But, I hate preaching

 

[aford10]

No, I was trying to demonstrate how things that may seem everyday to us or to someone more advanced than humans are currently would seem like 'godlike' powers to people witnessing these 'miracles' at that time.

Wouldn't a firearm seem like magic or godlike powers to a neanderthal?

Yes, I understand where you were going with the comparison. But it's not a valid one. Still to this day, we can't revive someone, who has been dead for 4 days.