hardcore_gamer
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- Mar 27, 2010
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londonfalcons_31
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- Feb 18, 2010
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Why is everyone thinking that this is "the end" of Nvidia?? ATI lovers need to get off their high horse, outselling a different company and taking some market share does not mean that the other company is going under. Nvidia will continue to be competitive. Just because their perspective on making a graphics card is different than ATI doesn't mean that it's wrong...in case you havent noticed, they hold 55.5% market share in desktop graphics cards....
I have always been using nvidia cards, but this time I bought a ATI 5770, for its speed AND the low power consumption. I really don't want nvidia to go under, because then ATI will be like intel (I have almost always used AMD cpus). Besides, nvidia has better driver (at least for the cards I had), windows automatically update nvidia drivers, and the ATI drivers always fail to install, I have to install it manuly (I got windows 7 64bit).
Are you people serious..? ATI gets a 1.1% market share over 50% and 'Nvidia is over' LOL... I've been watching the GPU and video card landscape since '95... It's cyclical. Every company in this game has their missteps... Can't even tell you how many ATI has had. And they Always do come back. These are usually the best things to happen, as the companies come back with a something grand and move the whole market forward...
And for anyone saying they will got he way of 3dfx... That was more about their own immaturity and arrogance as a company... Nvidia has been around too long to fall like that. This will just move competition into another level.
And for anyone saying they will got he way of 3dfx... That was more about their own immaturity and arrogance as a company... Nvidia has been around too long to fall like that. This will just move competition into another level.
zak_mckraken
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- Jan 16, 2004
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[citation][nom]L0tus[/nom]Give me a break. Do you even know what you're talking about? Nvidia has 48.9% of the market and you think this is the beginning of the end?!If you knew anything about GPU history you would know that these back-and-forth battles are nothing new. It's a common feature in almost every competitive market. Nvidia is now the underdog just as Ari has been for quite some years now.[/citation]
I guess you don't know much about this. It hasn't been back and forth for a while, and that's the problem for NVIDIA. They've released another bomb, and AMD has hit the market perfectly. Again.
Their revenues are suffering badly already. They've lost the lead in market share, which is huge since they had such a dominant position for quite some time. It's huge news to lose 10.4% market share. It's huge news to report well over $100M less revenue than expected for a company the size of NVIDIA. When is the last time you saw either?
Also, what you're confused by, among probably many things in life, is that NVIDIA just took the last shot. This wasn't AMD releasing a new generation and having better products, this was NVIDIA and still having greatly inferior products.
Guess what happens next? AMD releases new products, that extend their advantage even more, hurting NVIDIA even more.
NVIDIA is already bleeding. They can still get out a next generation, but if that fails, they'll start their death spiral and need to be bought out. It's expensive to design GPUs, and they are so far behind (consider cost to make, as well as power consumption), they'd have to almost completely abandon their design philosophy. I don't think they want that, since they already see they are a dying company without a CPU (as GPUs more and more will come on-die), so they have to make the GPU more than a GPU. By going that way, they have compromised their designs, but not made much impact getting their GPUs into much non-graphical roles. Maybe they will, but I doubt it.
The GF104 was something of a reverse in that direction, being designed more for pure GPU, but it's still a pile of junk, from a design perspective. Reviewers get very confused because the price/performance is pretty good, and from that perspective it is good for the buyer, but, it's still the same size as the 5870, and performs far worse. That's a bad design. But, it's still an improvement.
They need to get their next design right, or they're in deep trouble.
I guess you don't know much about this. It hasn't been back and forth for a while, and that's the problem for NVIDIA. They've released another bomb, and AMD has hit the market perfectly. Again.
Their revenues are suffering badly already. They've lost the lead in market share, which is huge since they had such a dominant position for quite some time. It's huge news to lose 10.4% market share. It's huge news to report well over $100M less revenue than expected for a company the size of NVIDIA. When is the last time you saw either?
Also, what you're confused by, among probably many things in life, is that NVIDIA just took the last shot. This wasn't AMD releasing a new generation and having better products, this was NVIDIA and still having greatly inferior products.
Guess what happens next? AMD releases new products, that extend their advantage even more, hurting NVIDIA even more.
NVIDIA is already bleeding. They can still get out a next generation, but if that fails, they'll start their death spiral and need to be bought out. It's expensive to design GPUs, and they are so far behind (consider cost to make, as well as power consumption), they'd have to almost completely abandon their design philosophy. I don't think they want that, since they already see they are a dying company without a CPU (as GPUs more and more will come on-die), so they have to make the GPU more than a GPU. By going that way, they have compromised their designs, but not made much impact getting their GPUs into much non-graphical roles. Maybe they will, but I doubt it.
The GF104 was something of a reverse in that direction, being designed more for pure GPU, but it's still a pile of junk, from a design perspective. Reviewers get very confused because the price/performance is pretty good, and from that perspective it is good for the buyer, but, it's still the same size as the 5870, and performs far worse. That's a bad design. But, it's still an improvement.
They need to get their next design right, or they're in deep trouble.
dark_lord69
Splendid
- Jun 6, 2006
- 3,227
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nVidia need to wake up and smell the coffee. Just reading the responses to articles like this should be enough to make them think "Hey, Maybe we are charging too much." I was a huge fan of nVidia ever since the original TNT. Then after my GeForce 6600GT. I moved to ATI for better performance and lower prices. Today I have an HD 4870 I bought for $80. The closest nVidia card to that one would be the GTX 260 that card has slightly lower performance (almost the same though) and still costs much more. nVidia, if you want to win back your market share you need to make a better, cooler, more effient and cheaper product. OR Just lower the prices enough that gamers can't resist.
I love ATI/AMD, you just cant beat their cost vs. performance pricing point. However, nvidia is a good company as well. I did buy a couple of their gpu's two years back. They will def come back just like ATI came back when nvidia had them on the ropes
Tmanishere
Distinguished
- Jun 23, 2009
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It's very possible Jen-Hsun Huang got something up his sleeve. At least that's my hope. Like dark_lord69, I've upgraded to ATI after GeForce 6600GT, which was great for its time. I hope Nvidia comes out with a winner in price/performance like they did with 6600GT soon.
But perhaps Nvidia is not focusing on desktop GPU, but more towards integrated graphics in smartphones, smartbooks, netbooks and PMP. If they can work that up, I'd say they definitely got a winner on their hand.
But perhaps Nvidia is not focusing on desktop GPU, but more towards integrated graphics in smartphones, smartbooks, netbooks and PMP. If they can work that up, I'd say they definitely got a winner on their hand.
Belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
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Sorry folks... it takes about 2 years to design - test - come to market, a GPU. Nvidia should have seen the signs of problems with the GF-280 series. ATI made the right choice of going smaller with their HD3000 series as those sold like hot-cakes. As well as having a clear-product line. YOU know exactly what you're getting with ATI cards. Nvidia - rename this, repackage that... ugh!
Nvidia going under would be the WORST thing that can happen. It was hot competition the brought the price of the 4850 at $200 down to $100 within 6 months.
Nvidia is in trouble... intel kicked them out of the Motherboard business, they left the AMD business. And they don't allow intel or AMD to run SLI unless you buy an nForce board - wow, they're cutting off their own heads. No CPU to sell, other than server math machines.
Nvidia going under would be the WORST thing that can happen. It was hot competition the brought the price of the 4850 at $200 down to $100 within 6 months.
Nvidia is in trouble... intel kicked them out of the Motherboard business, they left the AMD business. And they don't allow intel or AMD to run SLI unless you buy an nForce board - wow, they're cutting off their own heads. No CPU to sell, other than server math machines.
jimmysmitty
Champion
- Oct 5, 2007
- 21,595
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[citation][nom]swell9[/nom]Face it: ATI has better prices.[/citation]
In some ways yes. I still feel they are a tad high right now for the HD5K series.
The only thing nVidia has going for them is their SLI scaling.
Congrats ATI. SInce the 9700Pro, I have been a follower.
In some ways yes. I still feel they are a tad high right now for the HD5K series.
The only thing nVidia has going for them is their SLI scaling.
Congrats ATI. SInce the 9700Pro, I have been a follower.
I am still using an 8800 gtx, and was still using a 7300gt up until last month. These were good products that lasted a long time. but Dx11 and a better price came along, Nvidia was slow on the release and they lost out. Only time will tell how the new products will last.
buzznut
Splendid
- Sep 26, 2007
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[citation][nom]ares1214[/nom]AMD taking ATI in was probably the best thing they have ever done. ATI can help them with cpu funding, and amd can help them with video card funding, like now, when AMD was a bit low, the 5xxx series came out, gave them a big boost, and AMD is seemingly back on the rise. COMPETITION FTW[/citation]
That's so funny, two years ago popular opinion was AMD was dying and buying ATI was the dumbest move they ever made. AMD's long term strategy is working, and I'm happy to see it.
That's so funny, two years ago popular opinion was AMD was dying and buying ATI was the dumbest move they ever made. AMD's long term strategy is working, and I'm happy to see it.
IMO, I think a big part of this was Nvidia striking gold with the 8xxx series (G80/92) which put the hurt on ATI in a big way, and sitting on their haunches milking it for 3 years, while ATI clawed its way back (and no it wasn't really the 3000 series, they came back in a big way with their 4000 series). Of course being 6 months late to market with this gen was huge as well. Big AMD/ATI fan myself (last 4 platforms and 2 card have been AMD/ATI), however I want equal competition, it's what's best for the consumer. This time around I actually went with a GTX 470. Was going to go for a 5870, but the 470 was just too close in performance (and I got a screaming deal at $290 just weeks after it came out). Higher heat and power aside (didn't care that much when that was the go-to hate line towards AMD from the intel fan-bois back in the day since it was stable and OC'ed), it was the better deal at the time, at least IMO.
Yes, I think ATI too the more prudent approach with a smaller package, and that will pay dividends as people have pointed out when prices slide; and the 5xxx are the power/heat winners. But people are forgetting that the 480 is the new single card king, CUDA is succeding while OpenCL is still taking off, physix is still a big value add, and the GF 104/GTX 460 is a killer bang/buck card. Release for next gen is still speculation, though it's a good bet ATI will be quite a bit ahead. That's not to say this debacle is not a giant wake up call for NVIDA, but as someone pointed out earlier, discrete cards are only a part of the whole of either business (particularly for NVidia).
Summary- don't count out NVidia based off of a slump, as you shouldn't count out AMD now. It's more than a quarter/year of performace, and it's much more than top-end consumer GPU's/CPU's (only a fraction of the overall market).
-from an AMD fan boy
Yes, I think ATI too the more prudent approach with a smaller package, and that will pay dividends as people have pointed out when prices slide; and the 5xxx are the power/heat winners. But people are forgetting that the 480 is the new single card king, CUDA is succeding while OpenCL is still taking off, physix is still a big value add, and the GF 104/GTX 460 is a killer bang/buck card. Release for next gen is still speculation, though it's a good bet ATI will be quite a bit ahead. That's not to say this debacle is not a giant wake up call for NVIDA, but as someone pointed out earlier, discrete cards are only a part of the whole of either business (particularly for NVidia).
Summary- don't count out NVidia based off of a slump, as you shouldn't count out AMD now. It's more than a quarter/year of performace, and it's much more than top-end consumer GPU's/CPU's (only a fraction of the overall market).
-from an AMD fan boy
Tmanishere
Distinguished
- Jun 23, 2009
- 198
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- 18,690
I want to add that--although I don't agree with comments from companies like Verizon, Intel, and Nvidia that mobile devices are replacing PC in the future, I think there is a huge market in that business. Let's face it. People like small flashy toys.
Don't worry. nVidia won't go out of business. If the situation is really bad, Intel will buy it. Intel has been trying to get into the video card business forever. It was never able to design a competent discreet video card. Buying nVidia would be a natural fit.
As for having 3 players in the video card business being better than 2, that may not be the case. The market is only so big. Having 3 major players means each of them will ship lower volumes. Lower volume means each chip will be more expensive. Or each chip cost the same for the consumers, but the profit margin will be smaller for the 3 companies. This will affect their research budget. Lower research budget will impact deadlines. We may end up with a longer product cycle.
Just a thought.
As for having 3 players in the video card business being better than 2, that may not be the case. The market is only so big. Having 3 major players means each of them will ship lower volumes. Lower volume means each chip will be more expensive. Or each chip cost the same for the consumers, but the profit margin will be smaller for the 3 companies. This will affect their research budget. Lower research budget will impact deadlines. We may end up with a longer product cycle.
Just a thought.
liquidsnake718
Distinguished
- Jul 8, 2009
- 1,379
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Well [citation][nom]rohitbaran[/nom]GTX 460 is the only hope for nVidia now, it being the only card of which nVidia has probably good supply. nVidia shouldn't meet the fate of 3dfx, for it will leave ATI as the only major player in the market causing monopoly and stagnation.[/citation]
Actually Ati is already adding 3d for this current cypress generation 58xx cards, I think even the lower 57xx and 56xx will be 3d capable but not sure. Either ways, its a great step for Ati as I once was an Nvidia fan but it took them so long to come out with a new GPU it made me realize that the prices and their attitude towards the market was pompus and not worth it just for a slight preformance blip, its not worth it, plus the wait was the one that broke the camels back. I previously had 5 Nvidia GPUs before getting a 5850. Now I couldnt be happier.
Actually Ati is already adding 3d for this current cypress generation 58xx cards, I think even the lower 57xx and 56xx will be 3d capable but not sure. Either ways, its a great step for Ati as I once was an Nvidia fan but it took them so long to come out with a new GPU it made me realize that the prices and their attitude towards the market was pompus and not worth it just for a slight preformance blip, its not worth it, plus the wait was the one that broke the camels back. I previously had 5 Nvidia GPUs before getting a 5850. Now I couldnt be happier.
ati still has the fastest card and it is going to be much faster. and i currently have one of these. i d'ont know why people are talking about nvidia like they have the fastest card but they d'ont. and i am talking about the mighty hemlock. asus has comme up with the ares, a 4 gigs monster thas is 32% faster than an hemlock and ati radeon is coming up in q3 2010 with the hemlock hd 5970 eyefinity wich is going to be the same power as the ares but more readily available still with 4 gigs and much more furious cloxk speeds than the current hemlocks. so stop saying nvidia has the fastest cards cause they ain't.
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