Balancing "Regular" magic with Ritual Magic

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Greetings!

I am trying to run a Cyberpunk "Hidden Magic" game. I would like to have
both "regular" GURPS magic *and* Ritual Magic, like that described in
Voodoo: The Shadow War. I am having difficulty discerning whether or not
those are balanced without changing to a low mana level. Has anyone tried
both in the same game? I was thinking about using Power Investiture in the
place of Initiation levels, and making the other special effects of
Initiation available separately at the appropriate levels. Comments?

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

 

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On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 08:36:08 -0800, "Malachias Invictus"
<capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Greetings!
>
>I am trying to run a Cyberpunk "Hidden Magic" game. I would like to have
>both "regular" GURPS magic *and* Ritual Magic, like that described in
>Voodoo: The Shadow War. I am having difficulty discerning whether or not
>those are balanced without changing to a low mana level.

The respective things they do are so different that balance doesn't
really enter into it. GURPS magic is quick, specific and tiring.
Voodoo ritual magic is ponderous, general, and subtle. Comparing them
is like comparing a backhoe with a formula one race car.

 

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"David Johnston" <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:423c3ce8.185134594@news.telusplanet.net...
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 08:36:08 -0800, "Malachias Invictus"
> <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Greetings!
>>
>>I am trying to run a Cyberpunk "Hidden Magic" game. I would like to have
>>both "regular" GURPS magic *and* Ritual Magic, like that described in
>>Voodoo: The Shadow War. I am having difficulty discerning whether or not
>>those are balanced without changing to a low mana level.
>
> The respective things they do are so different that balance doesn't
> really enter into it. GURPS magic is quick, specific and tiring.
> Voodoo ritual magic is ponderous, general, and subtle. Comparing them
> is like comparing a backhoe with a formula one race car.

I hear you, but I still would like to keep them both roughly balanced
against each other, power-wise.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

 

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Malachias Invictus kirjoitti:
> Greetings!
>
> I am trying to run a Cyberpunk "Hidden Magic" game. I would like to have
> both "regular" GURPS magic *and* Ritual Magic, like that described in
> Voodoo: The Shadow War. I am having difficulty discerning whether or not
> those are balanced without changing to a low mana level. Has anyone tried
> both in the same game? I was thinking about using Power Investiture in the
> place of Initiation levels, and making the other special effects of
> Initiation available separately at the appropriate levels. Comments?
>
I think it should work out fine, I've always thought that Initiation was
too expensive for just the ritual magic usage and made anything above
level five insanely expensive, especially with all those special abilities.

I believe you'll do just fine with normal mana level. Just limit what
normal spell mages have access to and make powerstones and draw/steal
power unavailable. That should keep normal mages quite low-powered. And
remember to enforce prerequisites. Or make limited magery norm for mages.

../mika

 

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"Mika Peltola" <atomiclich@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:423c8f5a$1_1@news.dnainternet.net...
> Malachias Invictus kirjoitti:
>> Greetings!
>>
>> I am trying to run a Cyberpunk "Hidden Magic" game. I would like to have
>> both "regular" GURPS magic *and* Ritual Magic, like that described in
>> Voodoo: The Shadow War. I am having difficulty discerning whether or not
>> those are balanced without changing to a low mana level. Has anyone
>> tried both in the same game? I was thinking about using Power
>> Investiture in the place of Initiation levels, and making the other
>> special effects of Initiation available separately at the appropriate
>> levels. Comments?
>>
> I think it should work out fine, I've always thought that Initiation was
> too expensive for just the ritual magic usage and made anything above
> level five insanely expensive, especially with all those special
> abilities.

Agreed.

> I believe you'll do just fine with normal mana level. Just limit what
> normal spell mages have access to and make powerstones and draw/steal
> power unavailable. That should keep normal mages quite low-powered. And
> remember to enforce prerequisites. Or make limited magery norm for mages.

Thanks for the help. I am going to use the Thaumatology option for "normal"
magic, with the colleges as separate skills, etc.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

 

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Malachias Invictus wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> I am trying to run a Cyberpunk "Hidden Magic" game. I would like to have
> both "regular" GURPS magic *and* Ritual Magic, like that described in
> Voodoo: The Shadow War. I am having difficulty discerning whether or not
> those are balanced without changing to a low mana level.

For a hidden magic game, unless you are doing something odd, Ritual Magic
is going to be more powerful than standard magic. Changing to low mana
will make things worse.

> Has anyone tried both in the same game?

Yes. One GURPS Shadowrun, another GURPS Rifts.

> I was thinking about using Power Investiture in the
> place of Initiation levels, and making the other special effects of
> Initiation available separately at the appropriate levels. Comments?

That sounds much too cheap, there are good reasons why high initiations are
as expensive as they are. I'd recommend getting _GURPS Spirits_. There
are more magical effects, the system is streamlined, and various effects of
Initiation are broken out.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/

 

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"Jefferson" <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:113u91h42d5la1a@corp.supernews.com...
> Malachias Invictus wrote:
>
>> Greetings!
>>
>> I am trying to run a Cyberpunk "Hidden Magic" game. I would like to have
>> both "regular" GURPS magic *and* Ritual Magic, like that described in
>> Voodoo: The Shadow War. I am having difficulty discerning whether or not
>> those are balanced without changing to a low mana level.
>
> For a hidden magic game, unless you are doing something odd, Ritual Magic
> is going to be more powerful than standard magic. Changing to low mana
> will make things worse.
>
>> Has anyone tried both in the same game?
>
> Yes. One GURPS Shadowrun, another GURPS Rifts.
>
>> I was thinking about using Power Investiture in the place of Initiation
>> levels, and making the other special effects of Initiation available
>> separately at the appropriate levels. Comments?
>
> That sounds much too cheap, there are good reasons why high initiations
> are as expensive as they are. I'd recommend getting _GURPS Spirits_.
> There are more magical effects, the system is streamlined, and various
> effects of Initiation are broken out.

I own it. I am trying to break things down right now, but am having some
difficulties with 4E conversions of some things (I am starting a thread
called "I see dead people" to seek help for one.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

 

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Malachias Invictus wrote:

> I own it. I am trying to break things down right now, but am having some
> difficulties with 4E conversions of some things (I am starting a thread
> called "I see dead people" to seek help for one.

See page 73 -- Awareness.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/

 

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"Jefferson" <Jeff_Wilson63@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:113ufdop5t4kd69@corp.supernews.com...
> Malachias Invictus wrote:
>
>> I own it. I am trying to break things down right now, but am having some
>> difficulties with 4E conversions of some things (I am starting a thread
>> called "I see dead people" to seek help for one.
>
> See page 73 -- Awareness.

This no longer exists in 4E, and its replacement, Detect, does not really
cut it (see other thread for complete details).

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley