BIOS flash responsible for system crashes?

[Morwing]

Hello,

I recently flashed my BIOS on a MSI K7T Pro 2 mobo, from 1.9 to 3.2. Now I can't do any 3D tasks on it. Even as simple task as changing the screensaver crashes my computer.

2D tasks work so far, as like this posting, but as soon as I try to wach some .avi, or play or do anything that recuires some processing from my gfx card, system locks up...

I tried downgrading the BIOS to pre-flashing version, but it didn't let me do it. I also tried re-flashing it with the new version, it flashed OK, but it didn't fix anything.

I posted this same issue at the MSI boards, but so far I only got one response, to tweak up the VCore. I tried this, all the way to 1.600V but of no help. At 1.550V my system wouldn't even boot to OS, or even if it did, it caused a mass of error messages... I haven't dared to push it all the way to 1.85V. I also tried to rise that other voltage setting from 3.3V to 3.45V but it didn't help. At the moment I run the system with default voltages.

I have tried toying with the drivers, from via, msi, nvidia, micro$oft, but so far no help.

I tried running two OS' Win98SE and Win2k Pro, but both crash.

The system runs below 40 C and pros runs at a bit over 40 C, under 45 C anyways, so it's not too hot either.

If you need any more info, or I simply have forgotten to mention something here, you can mail me @ Morwing@goatrance.com or post it here...

It worked before... Why not now...

- Jan

My rig:
AMD Athlon 1 GHz (100 MHz FSB)
MSI K7T Pro 2 (BIOS 3.2)
512 MB Ram (133 MHz)
300 W PS
Gainward Geforce 2MX (Golden Sample)
SB Live! 1024
HP 9310i Burner
40x/ 8x DVD
20 GB Hdd
LG ethetnet card 10/100 PCI
Win98SE

 

[labdog]

a lot of bios flash utility save in auto the old bios on the diskette before upgrade

have you ctrl that ?




EasyInfo
I would like to Invest for my PC !!
ok, buy nothing.

 

[Morwing]

I checked the disk, but found nothing extra on it, just the files used for flashing... And I have turned on the option in windows to see hidden files =)

- Jan

 

[labdog]

when you downgrading, who/what don't let do this ?


EasyInfo
I would like to Invest for my PC !!
ok, buy nothing.

 

[Morwing]

The flasher itself gives me an error message "The program file's BIOS-Lock String does not match with your system" and the it jumps back to OS... I noticed that the new BIOS used a newer version of the flasher, so I tried downgrading with both the old, and the new version. Both gave the same response.

Just to make things more interestin, I just finished a few hour session in Starcraft, but it still locks when I try some 3D or anything more greedy on the resources...

- Jan<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Morwing on 12/15/01 11:57 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[HonestJhon]

when you flashed the bios, did you load up the defaults in the bios?
it is recommended to do that when you flash the bios, to make sure that there are no problems.
also, this is the ONLY thing that changed...no cable changes, no added hardware...
also, try it without any cards other than the video card.
then one by one, add the other cards, until you run into problems, that is, if you dont have a problem with just the video card.
troubleshooting...

-DAvid

-Live, Learn, then build your own computer!-

 

[Morwing]

Yes, the BIOS flash was the ONLY thing I did. Or wai.. hmm.. I did remove an empty hdd, but I reinstalled my OS after that... And why would it cause this?

Yes, I tried the failsafe and even the optimized settings. But it didn'r help. I have to try that removing of peripherals yet, tho it doesn't sound like a logical solution, but nonetheless, I shall try it...

- Jan

 

[HonestJhon]

i dont know for sure how this applies to newer components, but i remember something about stuff becoming "burned in to a certain configuration" and then if you removed components, them being gone might cause a problem, and they might not work in another system.
not sure tho.
but i did have a voodoo2 that would work in my old pentium 90, but would not work in my k6-2 500, or even the pentium233.
but put it back in the 90, and bam, working voodoo2.
i dont know if this applies to newer components, since the manufacturing quality has greatly increased since then, but you never know.
and about removing all the cards, sometimes, a certain configuration works, and will be fine for ever...unless something is changed.
like the bios is updated.
now there might be a confilict between certain pci slots and the agp slot...like both of them trying to access the cpu at the same time, and causing a conflict.
also, another thing to check....make sure that nothing is sharing the same irq with the video card, and if there isnt, then try turning the sound hardware accelleration down a notch, and if that still does not work, then turn the video card down a notch.
this is all to troubleshoot and find the problem.

and if none of this works, then i would report it to the motherboard manufacturer, and tell them the problem, and what you did to try and fix it.
and the system config.
then they might be able to make a new bios, that might fix the problem.
sorry, i should have thought of the things i wrote in here before telling you to take all the other cards out.

-DAvid

-Live, Learn, then build your own computer!-

 

[phsstpok]

I often used to run into the problem you describe after a BIOS flash. (I have an Abit KT7). It was very annoying to find what was always a stable system (relatively) to be suddenly start freezing in 3D applications. After trying to reflash back and forth different BIOS version and reinstalling 4-in-1 and nVidia drivers it would sponstaneously be fixed again until the next time I updated the BIOS or the 4-in-1 drivers. The problem would come back and I'd have to go through the whole mess again. Finally, I noticed something. After A BIOS update Windows (98SE) was redetecting some of the Via hardware, the CPU to AGP controller, CPU to PCI bridge etc, and reloading drivers for them. I thought to myself where is Windows getting these drivers and how do I know they are the correct ones? The next time the freezing problem returned I tried something different. I used the 4-in-1 installer but performed the uninstall of each of the drivers then immediately did a clean install of the 4-in-1 drivers. The freezing was gone never to return.

I now always uninstall the 4-in-1 drivers before an update and after a BIOS update. I don't have anymore freezing problems. In general, I use the old version installer program to uninstall the matching 4-in-1 drivers but the newest one seems to uninstall an old drivers just as well.


<b>We are all beta testers!</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 12/15/01 11:43 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[HonestJhon]

only thing is, he said that he tried installing different operating systems, which would <i>hopefully</i> mean that he formatted and installed the os, then the video card drivers, then the via 4-in-1 drivers...
it is always a good idea to reinstall the 4-i-1 drivers after updating or installing the video card drivers.
because the video card drivers configure things, and the 4in1 detects those configurations.


-DAvid

-Live, Learn, then build your own computer!-

 

[phsstpok]

I missed any note about a clean Windows install.

I disagree about the order you suggested. The first thing to install after a clean Windows installation is the Via 4-in-1 drivers. Windows needs to be aware of all of the hardware, especially AGP, before anything else. The nVidia drivers need to be aware of certain AGP parameters to perform optimally and can't do this if the AGP driver isn't loaded.

I usually go right down the line. If I update nVidia drivers I clean them out first with Detonator Destroyer (Win9x/ME only) then I do the same for DirectX. (You'll see slight better peformance when you do it this way rather just installing over old drivers). I use DXUninstaller to remove DirectX.

If I update the 4-in-1 drivers I make sure its a clean install like I mentioned earlier then I do nVidia drivers followed by DirectX.

If I do a BIOS update I follow it with the 4-in-1 drivers, the nVidia drivers, and DirectX. All of them clean installs.

It works really well to be this methodical.

<b>We are all beta testers!</b>

 

[Morwing]

I did indeed, format my C: (and D: but I don't dual at the time) drive before I applied Win98SE onto it.

I found this program UniFlash, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pvanleeuwen/ufhome.htm , which should handle flashing. I thought I'd give it a shot to downgrade my BIOS since the original flasher won't do it. The only this that worries me is, that the UniFlash util is from -98... And my mobo is -00. Has anyone tried it?

- Jan

[Edited]

I did some experimenting with the accelerations. I turned off the suond acceleration (in DX controls) and tried the Display tests, it locked up at the bouncing white box. After I rebooted, I turned off all hardware acceleration in System Props (for my Display), and tried the display tests agin in DX props, this time it didn't lock up.

Now, all I have to do is figure out how to fix this so I can use accelerated display... As everything is slow now =) But atleast it stopped locking up...

[Even more edited]

I pushed the acceleration back to max, dropped AGP Aperture size to 4 MB, and disabled AGP 4x mode, now it runs, or atleast it didn't crash in my quick tests. At some earlier point I did drop AGP to 2x mode but I dodn't remember changing the aperture size, not atleast that low, maybe one or two clicks, from 128 MB (is it really that effecting on system?). I can't still be sure that this is stable. I have to keep on testing.

Now, the question is, do I really loose some abilities while running in 2x mode? And is there some way to enable 4x mode?<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Morwing on 12/17/01 07:21 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[phsstpok]

You've got a lot of things going on. I missed what's wrong with your BIOS. (I'll re-read the messages later). Good luck with Uniflash. I tried it last night for my Abit KT7. It didn't work for the fried orginal BIOS chip and it didn't recognize the replacement chip so that mobo is still dead. I was really hopeful because Uniflash, though a 1998 program, does handle 256KB eeproms. I trying to matchup my chip by part number with equivalents in Uniflash's database. Otherwise, I'll have to pay for a second BIOS replacement. (Don't ask! Stupidity is the answer).

Your first post mentioned that you are running a core voltage of 1.6 volts. Why? The default voltage for a 1.0ghz Athlon is 1.75V. This might be your whole problem. Try 1.75 and even 1.85 (but keep an eye on your temperatures). At stock speeds the voltages should be OK even OEM cooling.

Setting AGP Aperture to 4MB, as does anything below 32MB, effectively shuts down AGP and you are running at PCI equivalent speeds (very slow). Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling the 4-in-1 drivers. I would even try getting a hold of the seperate VIA AGP driver (4.10). It should be available somewhere at <A HREF="http://www.viatech.com" target="_new">http://www.viatech.com</A>.

Sound acceleration causes DirectX tests to fail? This sounds like DirectX drivers are messed up. I'd reinstall them. For Win 9X/ME try to find DXUninstaller for a clean installation. (sorry, I lost the link).


<b>We are all beta testers!</b>

 

[Morwing]

I noticed later on the glitch with my VCore voltage settings, and pushed them all the way to some 1,8V but it didn't help anything, so I don't think that's causing it.

The sound accelerating was not the cause for system halt, Video Accelerating was causing it. I noticed this as I disabled AGP support in DX setup and it started running stable, but choppy. After this I re-enabled AGP support and disabled 4x AGP, and it worked. I don't know how high I can push aperture size until it becomes unstable again...

I have tried the AGP 4,10 drivers found from VIA site, but they didn't help one bit. I have also done clean install of OS (on fomatted drive) so old drivers can't be causing any problems.

I haven't yet tried to install the 4.37 drivers, since I'm not on my own comp, but as soon as I access my own comp, I'll try them too...

I'm somewhat sceptic with uniflash, since I got my system running stable now and I don't want to mess it up with a third party flasher (no more flashing for me =)

- Jan

 

[Ncogneto]

Do the following.

1)In bios check to see what your setting for AGP fastwrites is...set to disable.

2)Make sure you have reserve irq for agp enabled.

3)Agp aperature size should be 64 meg

4)Set agp mode to 2x, as opposed to 4x. After you achieve stability, go back and change it to 4x and see if this causes the probelm.

5)If your bios has an acpi mode set this to disabled.

6)After you have made the following adjustments all changes in bios should be made one at a time....stop changing multiple things at once...it makes it to hard to diagnose the problem.

7)Boot your computer into safe mode, go into device manager and look for multiple entries of the same device ( or even different, ie. two display adapters etc). If you see duplicates remove both and re-install after reboot.


8)Now go into device manager again and check your irq assignments, it is quite likely with Win98, that after the bios flash things got changed and this might be the root of your problem. Make sure that nothing is sharing an irq with your video card and preferably sound card as well.

9)Re-install your video card drivers then via 4 n 1's, then direct x 8.1. This can be done after step 7 if you have not had to uninstall and re-install devices do to irq conflicts. There are two settings for you agp speed in the 4 n 1's. turbo or normal.....turbo is preferable but if this gives you problems try normal.


Another Cookie? Who is going to pay my dentist bill?

 

[Ncogneto]

I disagree about the order you suggested. The first thing to install after a clean Windows installation is the Via 4-in-1 drivers. Windows needs to be aware of all of the hardware, especially AGP, before anything else. The nVidia drivers need to be aware of certain AGP parameters to perform optimally and can't do this if the AGP driver isn't loaded.

Actually, I disagree with you. The reason you want to install the Via drivers after the video card drivers is do to the fact that some video cards drivers will overwrite the via drivers ( mainly ATI cards, the viagart driver gets overwritten bt ATIGART). Although this probably won't happen in this case, it is still a good practice to get into. You can however install the via drivers both before and after the video card drivers, but always remember to install direct x as the very last step.

Another Cookie? Who is going to pay my dentist bill?

 

[phsstpok]

I have both nVidia and ATI cards (well an old one). It's been my experience that ATI installs its own GART VxD and this creates the problem. A system is not stable with to GART's installed.

I'll go along with you with the possibility of needing to install the VIA drivers twice, before and after detonator installation, especially if one has switched from an ATI card to an nVidia based card. However, I usually have to delete ATI's GART VxD manually. (Two GART drivers on the same system is not good!)

With a system with an nVidia based card, if one has not yet installed the VIA drivers or one has done a clean install of the VIA drivers then detonator installation will probably go well. However, if the Via drivers have been corrupted (which can happen just from non-clean updates) then detonator installation will almost always go badly. One example of a bad installation is the situation where the video driver seems stuck in 640x480, 16 colors (not 16-bit). Another example is a black screen with a blinking cursor. A third example is sluggish, but not quite bad, 3D performance. I have found that doing clean driver installs, in the order I mentioned, always fixes these nVidia problems. Since I have adopted this procedure I have never had to perform a clean install of Windows to get 3D to perform perfectly. No more 3D game crashes, not one. A clean install of Windows is just not necessary. (Now after disk data corruption, that's a different story).

<b>We are all beta testers!</b>

 

[Morwing]

I managed to solve the proble with this issue.

On the MSI BIOS update page was a hint concerning the "tweak" BIOSes, of how to bypass the Lock String - thing, to use switch /nbl is the batch file. I did this to downgrade my BIOS to what it was (1.9) and now everything seems to be back to normal. I can run my system in AGP 4x mode without crashes or other. So far, it looks as it should be.

Now I truly know what the phrase "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" means.

I hope that this will shed some light to some other users who might experience similar problems...

I would like to thank everyone involved in helping me, and the whole community. This is a good thing to exist.

- Jan