Question BSOD (daily) during general use: fine in games (I suspect driver).

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Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
Processes mentioned above are victims, not causes. its fairly rare for the driver that is cause of problem to show its face in that summary, if you look at his reply in this thread you will see how it looks when it shows the actual driver - https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/new-pc-shuts-itself-down-randomly-kernel-power-41-whats-the-problem.3680600/#post-22168310 - as its Nvidia in this case.

I don't use the spoiler, thats more for you. I use the link he gives, it shows more info.

its fairly rare to actually find the drivers directly these days, have to look at behaviour more often. What is crashing, what might cause it.

3rd one actually mentions amdppm which makes me go hmmm
its used for power management and one person who helps with BSOD posts thinks there is a problem with how CPU talks to Windows, and amdppm is part of windows that is in the middle. You can't replace it as its part of windows.

try updating chipset drivers - https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/b450
the only bios on board above yours just adds support for new CPU and the rebar function for sharing video ram on AMD gpu, not sure it would help.
 
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Jan 7, 2021
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Still no luck; I can post more minidumps but I feel that isn't going to help.
I had my PC apart yesterday to visually check components. I unplugged the motherboard entirely and even re-seated CPU and nothing looked out of place. Some oily residue on board around VRM heatsinks but that was it.

Is there anything I can do to aid diagnosis? I'm currently trying to use audio via Nvidia and have disabled the realtek in device manager in case its the onboard audio. If that doesn't works I may put that wifi card back in and disable ethernet to test that. But those are last ideas I have before having to speculatively spend money on hardware.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
Try running memtest86 on each of your ram sticks, one stick at a time, up to 4 passes. Only error count you want is 0, any higher could be cause of the BSOD. Remove/replace ram sticks with errors.

Memtest is created as a bootable USB so that you don’t need windows to run it

run that since we haven't yet

oily residue on board around VRM heatsinks
could be thermal compound from the heatsinks over the vrm - https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=117983
 
Jan 7, 2021
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Try running memtest86 on each of your ram sticks, one stick at a time, up to 4 passes. Only error count you want is 0, any higher could be cause of the BSOD. Remove/replace ram sticks with errors.

Memtest is created as a bootable USB so that you don’t need windows to run it

run that since we haven't yet


could be thermal compound from the heatsinks over the vrm - https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=117983
I have run memtest did both modules at once, can't recall when, but it passed fine. I may leave it going for as many passes as it can do overnight as crashes are about 1 per day.

I may also try various benchmarks and at least try to get a reproduceable BSOD
 
Jan 7, 2021
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Well I didn't test the sticks independently as I don't think they are the issue; again ran memtest no errors. Would have done them one at a time if error but there wasn't.

But, I maybe have made some progress. I disabled realtek audio in device manger. That seemed to get me a few days before a BSOD, then 2 came at once! So I took that a bit further and disabled the onboard audio in BIOS in case it was still partly in use.

Since then I got a fair way before a BSOD but I now have different behaviour (using NVIDIA audio through monitor rather than motherboard IO). Once spotify just silently exited, no BSOD. Then latest BSOD was weird. Spotify stopped playing and said it couldn't carry on. It refused to close fully, icon still in task tray. Task manager refused to populate properly, I closed and opened a couple of times while waiting but it wouldn't show running apps or draw usage graphs. Then I got a BSOD with DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION

So I'm tempted to say the onboard audio isn't the cause but possibly this was the first thing to run into the block and crashed the system directly when the fault occurred. I do see a new driver for LAN but I want to try and diagnose the problem if possible so I know what the issue is. If there are no clues in the latest BSODs I think I will try WAN only and disable ethernet (can you do this at BIOS level?) If that's stable I'll try the newer driver.

More minidumps: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/75k9v5z0085edob/AACC4dpDAW3XIoQ2uqOjpHgFa?dl=0
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
hardware tested/removed
WIFI card
ram tested
onboard sound tested (not sure why, was it cause Nahimic was mentioned?)

CPU - Ryzen 5 3600
MOBO - MSI B450 GAMING PLUS Max
RAM - 16GB (2x8GB) Corsair DDR4 Vengeance
GPU - Nvidia 1060 GTX 6GB
PSU - EVGA 650W GQ Gold
SSD - 250GB Samsung EVO (SATA) exact model not sure.
Win Ver: 19041
i feel we need to check the hardware out as this survives clean installs. Its unlikely to be a software solution.
I know Gardenman will convert dumps later.

CPU - try running this to test CPU - https://www.techspot.com/downloads/7050-asus-realbench.html#similars
MB - no tests (you test everything else and if everything else is okay, it leaves only MB)
SSD - run diagnostics on Magician - https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/download/tools/
RAM - Already run Memtest
GPU - possible realbench also tests it
PSU - the paper clip method - https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/what-is-the-paperclip-method-of-testing-a-psu.1336402/
or multimeter,
or in the BIOS to check the +3.3V, +5V, and +12V. - https://www.lifewire.com/power-supply-voltage-tolerances-2624583

PSU & MB are the 2 hardest things to pin down.
 
Jan 7, 2021
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I'll get working on those this evening and report back; although the PSU paperclip test is useless I don't have a multimeter and the PC wouldn't power on if the PSU didn't.
SSD - I have run magician it is ok, I also checked other drivers and tried with data drives removed.
Although as crashes have never occurred underload I doubt GPU and or CPU, but will run anyway

I tried disabling audio as instabilities came after chipset, LAN and Audio driver updates. So it seemed prudent to knock one of those out. Hence why LAN is next. Audio was first as I had a non-impacting fallback.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
which power plan are you running?
right click start
choose power options
under related settings, choose additional power settings
what power plan are you on?
AMD balanced or AMD high Performance? Might help to run high as some peoples PC perform better in that setting
 
Jan 7, 2021
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which power plan are you running?
right click start
choose power options
under related settings, choose additional power settings
what power plan are you on?
AMD balanced or AMD high Performance? Might help to run high as some peoples PC perform better in that setting
I'm already on AMD Ryzen High Performance - think I always have been
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
maybe try balanced and see if it changes anything. Main difference is speed it runs CPU at.

Balanced it can run as low as 5% speed, High its always at 100%

my 3600xt idles its cores as low as 20mhz, some are always active though
 

gardenman

Admirable
Moderator
I ran the dump files through the debugger and got the following information: https://jsfiddle.net/dgsroLhp/show This link is for anyone wanting to help. You do not have to view it. It is safe to "run the fiddle" as the page asks.
File information:012821-8218-01.dmp (Jan 28 2021 - 04:05:49)
Bugcheck:DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION (133)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: Spotify.exe)
Uptime:2 Day(s), 19 Hour(s), 52 Min(s), and 51 Sec(s)

File information:012521-5656-01.dmp (Jan 25 2021 - 05:55:30)
Bugcheck:SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION (3B)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: steam.exe)
Uptime:2 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 57 Min(s), and 25 Sec(s)

File information:012521-5500-01.dmp (Jan 25 2021 - 08:11:51)
Bugcheck:APC_INDEX_MISMATCH (1)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: System)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 2 Hour(s), 15 Min(s), and 36 Sec(s)

File information:012221-9875-01.dmp (Jan 22 2021 - 06:13:47)
Bugcheck:KERNEL_SECURITY_CHECK_FAILURE (139)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: Dropbox.exe)
Uptime:1 Day(s), 13 Hour(s), 52 Min(s), and 44 Sec(s)
This information can be used by others to help you. Someone else will post with more information. Please wait for additional answers. Good luck.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
Gardenman, you too early... you knew I would say that.

what Bluetooth devices do you use? last one happened while you were using BT.
how is it connecting? no intel WIFI card installed? No onboard BT on motherboard?

no bt drivers listed, so it must be using Microsoft drivers.

try removing razer driver, its been known to cause bsod.
 
Reactions: gardenman
Jan 7, 2021
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BT is a cheap and cheerful USB adapter; I've not actually been using it - been using jacked headphones as they are lighter but that is what it was purchased for. Mainly plugged in so I don't lose the ah heck.
https://www.ekobuy.com/ekobuy-usb-bluetooth-v4-0-csr-adapter-dongle-pc-windows-10-8-7-xp-in-retail-pack
I see there is driver on there but as I'm not using I'll remove it from the system. It has been present for ages but if I need BT in the future I'll buy something better!

Is there a method for removing the razer driver (mouse)? I image its likely to reinstall itself being plug and play.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
Funny, your WIFI card was based on Broadcom chip, and so was your BT adapter. I always thought most WIFI adapters could Do BT as well, I must have been spoiled by my last 2.

did you install the razer drivers or does windows just grab them?? I only mentioned them as I saw them crash on someone elses pc in the last week. If you have synapse. removing it will remove the drivers. Or maybe see of there are new drivers for it. I don't even know if its a problem.
 
Jan 7, 2021
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OK, so those suggested tests didn't throw anything up.

I had disabled ethernet and have gone back to the wifi card to at least rule out some components of the MB. Still had a BSOD sadly the main dump was corrupted, and no minidump.

I have a 500W Silverstone PSU I can possibly try but as this isn't failing under load I'm not wanting to try that yet, its not been used in yonks and probably a little underpowered.

Decided to throw caution to the wind and enable driver verifier for everything! Ended up in a BSOD loop. The dumps from that are here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s2i524i139yjunz/AAA_Qw8aSE6ZBUusvvCfwfKKa?dl=0

Both of those died in windows! But both said process was originwebhelper.exe so I decided to uninstall origin. Thought it was unlikely that the same process was running when windows crashed a thread. Then I managed to boot windows with driver verifier still on with the same settings. I can't recall exact dates but around the same time as these crashes started happening I installed origin to play games picked up over the holidays. I wanted to finish it so after my clean win install origin was promptly reinstalled. So I'm hopeful that's the cause. Wonder what you helpful gurus have to say on that.

I'll leave verifier on now I have it running with all windows drivers in case that isn't it to see if there is something else to trap.
 

gardenman

Admirable
Moderator
I ran the dump files through the debugger and got the following information: https://jsfiddle.net/8ocspn0v/show This link is for anyone wanting to help. You do not have to view it. It is safe to "run the fiddle" as the page asks.
File information:020121-5312-01.dmp (Feb 1 2021 - 13:55:02)
Bugcheck:DRIVER_VERIFIER_DETECTED_VIOLATION (C4)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: OriginWebHelperService.exe)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 00 Min(s), and 32 Sec(s)

File information:020121-12781-01.dmp (Feb 1 2021 - 13:53:36)
Bugcheck:DRIVER_VERIFIER_DETECTED_VIOLATION (C4)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: OriginWebHelperService.exe)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 00 Min(s), and 36 Sec(s)
This information can be used by others to help you. Someone else will post with more information. Please wait for additional answers. Good luck.
 
Jan 7, 2021
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Just had another crash so it isn't fixed, wont bother uploading as it was a massive hang then DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION tidied up so not going to know the culprit there.
 

cloner23

Distinguished
Apr 9, 2013
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I am in the exact same boat as you. I've tested different Windows 10 versions with no luck as well. I will keep an eye on your thread to see if you get the culprit.
 
Jan 7, 2021
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Well good to know I'm not the only one but sadly this is increasingly looking like hardware for me. I'm just trying to make a shortlist. With driver verifier on I can crash chrome pretty quickly (assuming it is not throwing false positives). I tested just a single ram stick in each slot, everything crashed so nothing learnt from that. I will try a different PSU tomorrow.
Minidump of the assorted crashes from tonight. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a12varap46m0udm/AAAOH1kYcpuYecMtn0qPPhg_a?dl=0

If the PSU leads to no information gained then;
I'll probably buy some RAM as I have some scope for an upgrade as using ram from side upgrade, I wasn't using xmp and it was configured for i5/i7 anyway and mucking about with timings does not appeal! If this memory is fine I'm one step closer to cobbling 2 PCs together as I was too lazy to sell intel board and CPU.

Will have to see after that I see fair few complaints about bad early Ryzens while trawling google for similar BSODs, but that's a much bigger hit than a new mobo. I have contacted MSI support in case they can do something, but that's only 1yr warranty may have to sort out an RMA with AMD. I can obviously put back together that system, it's fairly good i5-6600k so single core its probably on par with the 3600 anyway. So at least I wont be computerless.
 

gardenman

Admirable
Moderator
I ran the dump files through the debugger and got the following information: https://jsfiddle.net/qzjwf5vg/show This link is for anyone wanting to help. You do not have to view it. It is safe to "run the fiddle" as the page asks.
File information:020221-19671-01.dmp (Feb 2 2021 - 16:12:10)
Bugcheck:DRIVER_OVERRAN_STACK_BUFFER (F7)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: System)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 11 Min(s), and 26 Sec(s)

File information:020221-18828-01.dmp (Feb 2 2021 - 16:49:30)
Bugcheck:KERNEL_SECURITY_CHECK_FAILURE (139)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: chrome.exe)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 05 Min(s), and 09 Sec(s)

File information:020221-18218-01.dmp (Feb 2 2021 - 16:41:54)
Bugcheck:SPECIAL_POOL_DETECTED_MEMORY_CORRUPTION (C1)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: System)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 15 Min(s), and 14 Sec(s)

File information:020221-17968-01.dmp (Feb 2 2021 - 16:24:43)
Bugcheck:IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL (A)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: System)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 09 Min(s), and 26 Sec(s)

File information:020221-17265-01.dmp (Feb 2 2021 - 18:06:09)
Bugcheck:KERNEL_SECURITY_CHECK_FAILURE (139)
Probably caused by:memory_corruption (Process: System)
Uptime:0 Day(s), 0 Hour(s), 05 Min(s), and 10 Sec(s)
This information can be used by others to help you. Someone else will post with more information. Please wait for additional answers. Good luck.
 
Jan 7, 2021
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Shot in the dark; as I was getting repeatable crashes within 15 minutes on youtube with driver verifier enabled I thought I would check one module in each slot. To see if there was an issue with memory controller or dimm slots.

Found out that my 1060 has a firmware update for display port 1.3 / 1.4 but not going to touch that until I have turned driver verifier off and sure I can run it without a crash. But also as I have a near repeatable crash now I may try safe mode and see if it is reproduced there.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
think i upgraded my 980 with that update. I haven't looked at it for my current gpu

so all the hardware tests out? and DV doesn't show any driver names... ghosts? DV is meant to at least kill pc if it can't find a driver name :)

and yet you can make PC crash.. how? what makes it crash everytime?
 
Jan 7, 2021
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Well; I just decided on my latest BSOD to take a break from work and fired up safe mode and crashed without a blue screen by playing some youtube videos. So think I have a hardware fault.

I will put off the GPU firmware update as in safemode my main display wasn't used and only secondary DVI screen used.

As for testing I just found that driver verifier increases my crash frequency but playing youtube will usually bring it down in 15mins. I haven't re-installed origin, that may be insta-kill with DV. It's now lunch so I may dig out the old PSU and see how the afternoon goes running off that...
 

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