Bulldozer?

[HostileDonut]

I was looking at the AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE which I can get on Newegg for $129.99. I was wondering if waiting for bulldozer would be worth it, or just going with Phenom II. So, I have a few questions, so here they are:

When will Bulldozer come release?
How much would Bulldozer probably cost?
Which CPU should probably be good? (e.g. the 4-core, 6-core, 8-core)
What is the inverse hyperthreading people are talking about?
Which socket will it use? (I am pretty sure it will use AM3+, but I am not sure)
Will a Bulldozer CPU come at a price of $129.99 and be as good as a AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE?

I am pretty eager for bulldozer, but I am not sure if I should wait or or grab something now.

Thanks in advance! 😉

 

[HostileDonut]

Also, two more questions, will it be as good as Sandy-Bridge, and will the MoBos cost a lot?

 

[hunter315]

I believe it was set for late Q2 of 2011 so within the next 3 months.

Somewhere between $50 and $600, it really depends on how well it performs how high it will be priced.

We have no idea, i havent seen any legitimate benchmarks and i doubt any will be out until about a week before the release date.

Bulldozer is going to be made up of modules that have two physical cores in each, each has its own scheduler, execution pipeline and integer unit, but they share their L2 cache. Hyper threading really just doubles up the registers so that it can save the state and do quick context switches without taking a large penalty, bulldozer will have two physical cores per module versus hyper threadings two logical cores per physical core.

It will be AM3+ which will support AM3 processors, however, AM3+ CPUs will not work on AM3 boards.

We have no idea.

 

[HostileDonut]

I believe it was set for late Q2 of 2011 so within the next 3 months.

Somewhere between $50 and $600, it really depends on how well it performs how high it will be priced.

We have no idea, i havent seen any legitimate benchmarks and i doubt any will be out until about a week before the release date.

Bulldozer is going to be made up of modules that have two physical cores in each, each has its own scheduler, execution pipeline and integer unit, but they share their L2 cache. Hyper threading really just doubles up the registers so that it can save the state and do quick context switches without taking a large penalty, bulldozer will have two physical cores per module versus hyper threadings two logical cores per physical core.

It will be AM3+ which will support AM3 processors, however, AM3+ CPUs will not work on AM3 boards.

We have no idea.

Okay, so the quad core CPU will have two cores, the 6 core CPU will have 3, and the 8 core CPU will have 4?

 

[BaronMatrix]

I was looking at the AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE which I can get on Newegg for $129.99. I was wondering if waiting for bulldozer would be worth it, or just going with Phenom II. So, I have a few questions, so here they are:

When will Bulldozer come release?
May with systems in June(don't quote me - the Q1 conference call (next month) will pin it to probably a day)
How much would Bulldozer probably cost? The same and more than current AMD chips
Which CPU should probably be good? (e.g. the 4-core, 6-core, 8-core) Bulldozer is the 6-core-killer - find your budget
What is the inverse hyperthreading people are talking about? It's a complicated process where program threads are divided by instructions\data over multiple cores - that isn't BullDozer
Which socket will it use? (I am pretty sure it will use AM3+, but I am not sure) AM3+
Will a Bulldozer CPU come at a price of $129.99 and be as good as a AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE? IMHO - yes.

I am pretty eager for bulldozer, but I am not sure if I should wait or or grab something now.

Thanks in advance! 😉

I'd say if you want a new system, NO CURRENT CHIP will be too slow <insert Atom joke> for what you need.

Decide and buy.

 

[hunter315]

The quad core will still have 4 cores, they will just be in two modules, the 8 core will have 8 cores in 4 modules. Im not sure if there will be a 4 core or a 6 core option out for a while, i believe they are planning on releasing the 4 module version first, others may come later.

 

[oby20]

right now the best are the 4-cores, 6-cores / 8-cores today is a waste of money.
applications today usually dpeneds on 2-4cores, a 6core or 8core is potential.
if you bought a pc today with 4-cores its fast enough for your needs and you will surely upgrade it the next 3yrs,
and that i think is the best time to buy a 6-core desktop.
if you buy a 6/8core today, yes future proof, even the next 4 yrs your still on top, but do you think after 4yrs it wont wear up? i doubt it if you still keep your 4yr old 6core processor and just upgrade the mobo and the psu and the videocard. you will surely buy a new set after 3 yrs.
its quality will degrade after 3 yrs of using it, it will tear down, so you will buy again another 6-core/8core so whats the future proof is all about?
every year intel and amd always comes up with a better processor, so no matter what you buy, there will always a better one.
so just buy whats the best and useful today than trying to advance yourself to a technology that is still not stable.

 

[oby20]

right now the best are the 4-cores, a 6-cores / 8-cores today is a waste of money.
applications today usually dpeneds on 2-4cores, a 6core or 8core today is a wasted potential.
if you bought a pc today with 4-cores its fast enough for your needs and you will surely upgrade it the next 3yrs,
and that i think is the best time to buy a 6-core desktop.
if you buy a 6/8core today, yes future proof, even the next 4 yrs your still on top, but do you think after 4yrs it wont wear up? i doubt it if you still keep your 4yr old 6core processor and just upgrade the mobo and the psu and the videocard. you will surely buy a new set after 3 yrs.
its quality will degrade after 3 yrs of using it, it will tear down, so you will buy again another 6-core/8core so whats the future proof is all about?
every year intel and amd always comes up with a better processor, so no matter what you buy, there will always a better one.
so just buy whats the best and useful today than trying to advance yourself to a technology that is still not stable.

 

[HostileDonut]

Well, yes I know that, but are all bulldozers going to have 2 cores? If so, that would mean the 8 core would have two real cores, and 6 logical cores, which is really stupid.

 

[jj463rd]

No,the Bulldozer CPU's have what's called modules.Each module will have 2 cores (shared cores).
Thus a 2 module Bulldozer CPU will have 4 cores,a 3 module one 6 cores and a 4 module one 8 cores.

They should be released sometime after the third week of June ,2011 or so.
Pricing would probably be comparable with Intel's Pricing on cost vs performance.
Thus a 4 module (8 core) Bulldozer if it performs the same as the Intel Core i7-2600k will likely have a similar price.

Perhaps a engineering sample will get out a month early and we will be able to see some early benchmark comparisons

 

[Wisecracker]

1 module / 2 integer cores:

If you are gaming there are bargains to be had --- nothing wrong with pairing that PhII955BE with something like the Asus M4A79XTD EVO AM3 790X if you are looking at a potential CrossFire.

I snagged a new Asus 790FX a few months ago for $94 after rebate.

 

[mdsiu]

Release date tentatively June 11th

 

[HostileDonut]

The 8 core bulldozer is on target to be as fast as the 2600K.. IMO not worth it

I am not saying you are wrong, but why arn't they worth it? If it is as strong, at the same price, what is wrong? Also, AMD tends to have lower priced boards.

 

[HostileDonut]

Takes 8 cores to match the performance of what intel can accomplish in 4. Then there's the TDP issue. BD 8 core will have a whopping 130W TDP where Sandy Bridge has an 80W TDP in P67 boards

Oh, but when you don't need the cores, it turns them off. It will take 0 watts when they are not needed. The 130TDP will only come when gaming or editing. I disagree. The TDD will normally not be that high.

 

[hunter315]

Takes 8 cores to match the performance of what intel can accomplish in 4. Then there's the TDP issue. BD 8 core will have a whopping 130W TDP where Sandy Bridge has an 80W TDP in P67 boards

You mean what intel can accomplish in 8 logical cores? Or did you forget that hyper threading helps it out there in some things? And you know damn well core count doesnt matter nearly as much in most apps since it cant split a process into more threads than it already has.

130W isnt bad for a TDP, the 2600K is rated at 95W, and when you OC it you get well over that "whopping 130W TDP" that you say Bulldozer will have(it probably will but 130W isnt high) at 4.6GHz yours must be pulling well over 150W which would be absolutely outrageous to sell a processor with that TDP based on your previous statement, oops, guess intel used to have the QX9775 rated at 150W, makes 130W seems far more reasonable dont it?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115044&cm_re=qx9775-_-19-115-044-_-Product

Psycho, you flip flop more than all of congress combined.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

Now you have me curious on how much powa mine puts out at 4.6Ghz and i'm a man of many opinions

Full Load you're looking at a power draw of 135W for a 2600K Oc'ed to 4.6GHz with a VCore of 1.33v. You're likely around 133-134W with a VCore of 1.326.

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

In other words... your Sandy Bridge 2600K at 4.6GHz can be compared, performance/power efficiency wise, to a BullDozer 4 Module variant (8 Integer Cores) which is set around 130W according to slides I've seen.

 

[HostileDonut]

Whats weird is how cool this processor is even with that huge TDP. I onlt pull 55C with an H70 in gaming at this speed and voltage.

Edit .. At 4.6Ghz i'm putting out the same heat as a BD at 3.2Ghz.. Yikes

Don't forget, you are using a h70 cooler though, so your temps won't be so high.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

Whats weird is how cool this processor is even with that huge TDP. I onlt pull 55C with an H70 in gaming at this speed and voltage.

Edit .. At 4.6Ghz i'm putting out the same heat as a BD at 3.2Ghz.. Yikes

Indeed... hopefully Bulldozer doesn't disappoint performance wise.

Don't forget, you are using a h70 cooler though, so your temps won't be so high.

Definitely noted.

 

[Chad Boga]

Takes 8 cores to match the performance of what intel can accomplish in 4. Then there's the TDP issue. BD 8 core will have a whopping 130W TDP where Sandy Bridge has an 80W TDP in P67 boards

Just because BD has a TDP of 130W, doesn't necessarily mean that the first BD chips will be consuming that much power, as TDP is being specified for the family of chips that may come out and AMD has to specify a TDP for the motherboard makers to design around.

Also, whilst I prefer a lower TDP chip myself(hence why I got a Lynnfield over a Bloomfield), Intel's socket 1366 chips belong to a TDP family of 130w and that doesn't seem to have hurt it too much.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

Just because BD has a TDP of 130W, doesn't necessarily mean that the first BD chips will be consuming that much power, as TDP is being specified for the family of chips that may come out and AMD has to specify a TDP for the motherboard makers to design around.

Also, whilst I prefer a lower TDP chip myself(hence why I got a Lynnfield over a Bloomfield), Intel's socket 1366 chips belong to a TDP family of 130w and that doesn't seem to have hurt it too much.

I think he is comparing it to Sandy Bridge because that slide placed the 2600K in the same price category as the high end AMD Bulldozer 8 Integer Core model (4 Modules).

 

[Chad Boga]

I think he is comparing it to Sandy Bridge because that slide placed the 2600K in the same price category as the high end AMD Bulldozer 8 Integer Core model (4 Modules).

Yes, but my argument(s) still apply.

There are people today buying socket 1366 over socket 1156, despite socket 1366's higher TDP, so I don't see why this will be an insurmountable problem for BD.

BD's biggest problem is going to be its weak cores compared to Sandy Bridge.

 

[jsc]

Until BD motherboards and CPU's start shipping to the review sites, all you guys are guesstimating performance and TDP.

 

[HostileDonut]

Until BD motherboards and CPU's start shipping to the review sites, all you guys are guesstimating performance and TDP.

Yeah, but it is still nice to be able to anticipate.

 

[jimmysmitty]

I am not saying you are wrong, but why arn't they worth it? If it is as strong, at the same price, what is wrong? Also, AMD tends to have lower priced boards.

Yes AMD does have lower priced mobos. If you purposly choose to look at them. But if you look at a P67 Asus mobo and a 890FX Asus mobo, the pricing is about the same and give the same features.

I have seen one too many people comparing some $60 dollar ASrock POS mobo to a nice Asus $150 P8P67 mobo. I could do the same by looking at low end Intel mobos but its pointless. Never sacrifice quality. Always try to put the best you can in a machine. Thats the purpose of a self built PC. To build something that will last longer than crap OEM (Dell, HP etc) machines.

I just retired my Pentium 4 machine (fiance was using it, got her a Athlon II X2 with a decent Asus mobo) that was 8 years old. Ran on a Asus P4P800 Deluxe. Probably could have gone 2 more years before the mobo gave up but it deserves the rest.

My current machine is 4 years old (built in 2007) and running on a Asus P5K-E.

Overall, BD will be a good CPU and Sandy bridge is a good CPU. Either way there its quality. But do not go with Bulldozer because you can get a $50 dollar mobo. You will regret it. I have seen one too many low end mobos in OEM machines just stop working.

Whats weird is how cool this processor is even with that huge TDP. I onlt pull 55C with an H70 in gaming at this speed and voltage.

Edit .. At 4.6Ghz i'm putting out the same heat as a BD at 3.2Ghz.. Yikes

Thats process maturity for ya. THG did a nice one and remember a 4 core SB unit was as efficient as a dual core Clarksdale unit. Both 32nm.

I just imagine what 22nm will do. 5GHz on air with the same TDP as a 4GHz SB unit.....

 

[HostileDonut]

Yes AMD does have lower priced mobos. If you purposly choose to look at them. But if you look at a P67 Asus mobo and a 890FX Asus mobo, the pricing is about the same and give the same features.

I have seen one too many people comparing some $60 dollar ASrock POS mobo to a nice Asus $150 P8P67 mobo. I could do the same by looking at low end Intel mobos but its pointless. Never sacrifice quality. Always try to put the best you can in a machine. Thats the purpose of a self built PC. To build something that will last longer than crap OEM (Dell, HP etc) machines.

I just retired my Pentium 4 machine (fiance was using it, got her a Athlon II X2 with a decent Asus mobo) that was 8 years old. Ran on a Asus P4P800 Deluxe. Probably could have gone 2 more years before the mobo gave up but it deserves the rest.

My current machine is 4 years old (built in 2007) and running on a Asus P5K-E.

Overall, BD will be a good CPU and Sandy bridge is a good CPU. Either way there its quality. But do not go with Bulldozer because you can get a $50 dollar mobo. You will regret it. I have seen one too many low end mobos in OEM machines just stop working.



Thats process maturity for ya. THG did a nice one and remember a 4 core SB unit was as efficient as a dual core Clarksdale unit. Both 32nm.

I just imagine what 22nm will do. 5GHz on air with the same TDP as a 4GHz SB unit.....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130274&cm_re=msi_890fx-_-13-130-274-_-Product <--- AMD

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130574&cm_re=p67_motherboard-_-13-130-574-_-Product <--- Intel

The AMD has a lot of PCI-E slots, (enough to run quadfire) more RAM options, DrMos, and CPU unlock for he same price. I would get the AMD motherboard. I know going cheap on a motherboard sucks, but getting a $80+ ASRock, ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, or Biostar will serve you well. The ASRock AM3 870 Extreme3 is a great example.