China: In the End, Google Will Be Biggest Loser

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JonathanDeane

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Maybe, maybe not. Either way it was bound to happen sooner or later, either Google was going to check out of China or China was going to boot them. I think China plans on booting allot of companies out eventually.
 

brendano257

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"In fact, no country allows unrestricted flow on the Internet of pornographic, violent, gambling or superstitious content, or content on government subversion, ethnic separatism, religious extremism, racialism, terrorism and anti-foreign feelings."

No, some but certain countries figure they'll just censor anything thats unfit for their little "children." Last time I checked, you could buy the Anarchist Cookbook in the U.S., you just have to accept the fact that it look suspicious and will show up in records and such. But it's still publishable, and isn't hidden from society.
 

babybeluga

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Tom's, your number one source for internet soap opera's and your drama headquarters!

*waits for the pointless and ignorant "China is evil" rhetoric that strangles every one of these articles' comment section*
 

zachary k

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oh noes, people will have free access to information! they will be able to think and make decisions for themselves! QUICK!! while we still control their minds, brainwash "google is bad", quick!
@babybeluga you are entitled to your opinion just as i am entitled to mine, though the Chinese might try to censor that kind of thinking. i do not think the Chinese are bad, just the government.
 

babybeluga

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Why is the government bad? Every government has done the same thing at some point in its history. Most of you people complain just because its the cool thing to do. Take a look at some of the African governments and what they do (or don't do), then come back and cry about how bad China's government is.

The way you people complain makes me think you'd never be able to survive without being connected to 24/7 internet. I'm not judging you on that, but you have to realize other real people are out there struggling to survive and your internet pseudo cries for justice do absolutely nothing but build into ignorance. That green twitter army really helped those Iranians, didn't it?

Most people cry for more privacy here in the United States, but this is the culture of tabloids and forcing our whole country into other people's business. It's absolutely ridiculous how many people will jump onto a bandwagon due to the media.
 
G

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This isn't just about censorship. China has a whole government branch of hackers. They rip off everyone's stuff and then put out their own version. Google just thought it was better to withdraw their efforts at complying with China when they just plan on stealing everything anyways. The hacking probably violates China's laws, but the government denies it and does nothing about it.

How do you remain competitive when you try to comply with laws that your competitors ignore? Of course, how do you compete with a country?

We have Google's answers, what do you think?
 

JonathanDeane

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[citation][nom]roltzje[/nom]@zachary k The citizens of China cant think and make decisions for themself?[/citation]

As long as that decision is approved by the government sure :) Just don't try to do a protest or you may get run over by a tank or something.

Sorry but China is not evil, Chinese people are not evil, but the government sure the hell is. They may be in the process of changing that but I have no questions that if I lived there I would be scared to voice my opinion unless it was something like "China is the greatest!!!"

Filtering the internet of crap is fine and people will live with out porn to be sure. Filtering out opinions that differ from your own is uncomfortably close to burning books that do not agree with a dictators doctrine and that is where the shadows grow and the lies hide.
 

rajangel

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Well see, it doesn't matter to china anymore. They have google's source code now. In the end they don't care because they HAVE google. It's pathetic really.
 

frozenlead

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[citation][nom]babybeluga[/nom]Why is the government bad? Every government has done the same thing at some point in its history. Most of you people complain just because its the cool thing to do. Take a look at some of the African governments and what they do (or don't do), then come back and cry about how bad China's government is. The way you people complain makes me think you'd never be able to survive without being connected to 24/7 internet. I'm not judging you on that, but you have to realize other real people are out there struggling to survive and your internet pseudo cries for justice do absolutely nothing but build into ignorance. That green twitter army really helped those Iranians, didn't it? Most people cry for more privacy here in the United States, but this is the culture of tabloids and forcing our whole country into other people's business. It's absolutely ridiculous how many people will jump onto a bandwagon due to the media.[/citation]

What, so because the Chinese government's act of censorship isn't the worst thing in the universe, we can't talk about it? Neither is pollution (genocide is certainly more important) so I suppose we should just forget that too. Censorship is pretty low on the list of dire subjects, so let's just stop talking about it.
What does this complaint have to do with the Internet at all? It's about censorship - the medium that it occurs over is almost irrelevant in the issue. Censorship is wrong (on this level, when it hides the truth-edit). I've yet to see someone give an argument where it is a good thing.
 

killerclick

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It's easy to judge China as a harsh authoritarian state but I think China is not ready for the social and political freedoms enjoyed in the West. Liberal democratic values can't just be forced on a country, they need to evolve and be accepted over a period of time. I actually think the Chinese government is doing a pretty good job of running the country. They're stable, they have a healthy, growing economy and while their record on human rights is not too good, at least they haven't started any wars recently.
As for Google, they get props for standing up for themselves, too bad it'll cost them financially.
 

killerclick

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[citation][nom]frozenlead[/nom]Censorship is wrong. I've yet to see someone give an argument where it is a good thing.[/citation]

Several European nations have laws prohibiting denying the Holocaust, prohibiting Nazi symbols and prohibiting hate speech. I think censorship in those cases is understandable. There is a balance between freedoms and the public good and every country has the right to set that balance for themselves because it's their responsibility as are the consequences.
 

babybeluga

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[citation][nom]frozenlead[/nom] Censorship is wrong. I've yet to see someone give an argument where it is a good thing.[/citation]

Child pornography? Islamic terrorism sites are monitored. I'd also say that's close enough.

The level of censorship you're willing to deal with is another person's communism. It's all relative, and maybe 10% of the people (who post) here understand that. It's like when tea party people complain how socialism is so evil when they use the U.S. Post Office, call the police for help, and send their kids to public schools. LOOK IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE.
 

zachary k

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[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom] Liberal democratic values can't just be forced on a country,
(a lot of other things, cut out for no wall of text)
[/citation]
it can't be forced on people, but i don't think it should be forced out of the peoples hand. who is to say what is the right? put it out there, and let nature take its course.
 

randomizer

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[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]Several European nations have laws prohibiting denying the Holocaust, prohibiting Nazi symbols and prohibiting hate speech. I think censorship in those cases is understandable.[/citation]

What is understandable about prohibiting denial of the Holocaust? Should we also ban denial of global warming, 9/11 and the dangers of smoking?

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Evelyn Beatrice Hall
 

babybeluga

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[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]It's easy to judge China as a harsh authoritarian state but I think China is not ready for the social and political freedoms enjoyed in the West. Liberal democratic values can't just be forced on a country, they need to evolve and be accepted over a period of time. I actually think the Chinese government is doing a pretty good job of running the country. They're stable, they have a healthy, growing economy and while their record on human rights is not too good, at least they haven't started any wars recently.As for Google, they get props for standing up for themselves, too bad it'll cost them financially.[/citation]

Thank you for saying it more rationally than I could.

I think a lot of United States citizens are mad because the media says China is taking our jobs and they say it's ok to hate them because of their evil communism. People don't realize that the main reason China is thriving is that they aspired to be like us. They wanted to be swimming in wealth like we were perceived to be doing. The United States grew strong on cheap factory labor (just like China has). The problem with us now is that most people just want to complain about it because that's what the media does. Everybody living in a modern society is going to be force fed opinions (this includes me), but a lot of people don't realize that it's happening.
 

babybeluga

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[citation][nom]zachary k[/nom]it can't be forced on people, but i don't think it should be forced out of the peoples hand. who is to say what is the right? put it out there, and let nature take its course.[/citation]

Do you know anything about history? Revolution usually comes from the banning of ideas or freedoms (followed by a grim, bloody war). You should be thanking China for taking the next step towards the inevitable (whether it works out or not).
 

babybeluga

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[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]What is understandable about prohibiting denial of the Holocaust? Should we also ban denial of global warming, 9/11 and the dangers of smoking?"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Evelyn Beatrice Hall[/citation]

I smell a TRUE libertarian!
 

tarheels_100

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[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]What is understandable about prohibiting denial of the Holocaust? Should we also ban denial of global warming, 9/11 and the dangers of smoking?"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Evelyn Beatrice Hall[/citation]

Denial of the Holocaust is understandably censored because it it unbelievably hurtful to those affected by the Holocaust. Hate-speech like this can be considered a crime in some case because of the emotional harm you can inflict on someone. You may have a scientific theory of why global warming and the hazards of smoking don't exist, but to deny history is insanity.
 

randomizer

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[citation][nom]tarheels_100[/nom]Denial of the Holocaust is understandably censored because it it unbelievably hurtful to those affected by the Holocaust. Hate-speech like this can be considered a crime in some case because of the emotional harm you can inflict on someone.[/citation]

That is why censorship is so dangerous. Because a small minority are offended, everybody gets their mouths taped up. Maybe we should ban talk about rape because it hurts people affected by it. Disagreement about the legitimacy of historical records is not hate speech. It's disagreement speech.

[citation][nom]tarheels_100[/nom]You may have a scientific theory of why global warming and the hazards of smoking don't exist, but to deny history is insanity.[/citation]

Accepting it without question because someone will get offended if you don't is just as bad. All evidence should be examined.
 

tayb

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China couldn't bear any free thoughts getting out. Really this is going to violently blow up in China's face at some point in the future. Every oppressed citizenry will eventually rise up and revolutionize.
 
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