They are happy with the divide, and they spend money to keep it that way. As George Carlin said, they own this country.
g-unit1111 said:
Wait - you really think people get paid for this? I've yet to see one paycheck, and most of the liberals I know have yet to see one paycheck. Show me one protestor driving around in a luxury car, living in a high rise apartment and wearing Rolexes off his / her protest money. You can't, can you?
g-unit1111 said:
I've been to lots of rallies and I've never been paid once. I feel cheated. :lol:
bit_user said:
What's literally the best-case scenario for getting AntiFa broken up? The way I see it, the problems with government being too controlled by elites & special interests is still there.
You mean, "elites, special interests" are too entrenched to allow well funded, violent, anti-American, anti-free speech groups e.g. AntiFa to be broken up? If so, I'd say we're in agreement, & I tried telling you the same thing. There hasn't been a significant, genuine, grassroots protest movement in the US that's been successful or even allowed to take place for some time. When a peaceful protests occurs, & AntiFa or similar affiliates show up to deliberately shut them down by turning them violent, & keep getting way with it, it goes to show those running the show benefit by keeping people divided. Fear & loathing, divide & conquer, among the oldest tricks in their book. Of course, now, & in the near future with technological advancement of AI, quantum computing, etc, it's kind of like unleashing a Pandora's box the result of which is ultimately unpredictable. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/03/09/minority-report-style-technology-to-predict-crime-in-china/ This equates to using AI for predicting "thought crime", the article mentions that aside from China gearing up, its already in use in the UK (& most likely elsewhere).
g-unit1111 said:
You really couldn't have picked a more far right hashtag to prove your point? All I saw on there was the conspiracy theorists. Memes posted by conspiracy theorists do not make for a compelling argument.
g-unit1111 said:
Well the ultra far right groups like the Proud Boys, III%, Oath Keepers, Patriot Prayer, Bundy Militia, etc, are just as interested in suppressing speech as Antifa is. Just in the opposite direction. One side does not get to own free speech, it works for both sides, and any attempts by either side is terrible. You can't say that they don't. Saying the most far out, racist, sexist, homophobic stuff and then saying "Oh it's free speech, we can say this!" not only is counter productive to the argument, it hurts both sides and that doesn't end well for anybody. And these protests are far from peaceful - when you combine the most belligerent, obnoxious people from both ends of the spectrum you get people looking to start fights at protests, and what happened in Charlottesville is just the beginning - things are going to get far worse before they get better for either side.
Unlike some people, I don't buy into "left-leaning", "right leaning", or any other patently false, deliberately divisive label to characterize myself by. Labels play into the very agenda that's been dividing our people & creating an atmosphere of fear & loathing. Labels disillusion people from participating in the political realm to begin with, & seem to be good only for building up a lot of hate & ignorance in those who do attempt to involve themselves with being informed.
Aside from that incident with the Bundies, I'm unfamiliar with those groups, & iirc, at least one of them is nothing more than a YT channel. If what I saw from them is any indication whatsoever in regards to the rest, they didn't seem very interested in suppressing any free speech whatsoever, just the opposite. While I don't approve of their methods & in how they chose to handle the Federeal Govt screwing them out of their land & going out of their way to screw them, generally speaking. What I can for sure say is all in all the situation was resolved peacefully for the most part, aside from that guy the feds gunned down after he'd said he was willing to die for his beliefs (also unnecessary). Just as the unnecessary violence by the FBI @ Waco, Ruby Ridge, & the plethora of other lethal, disgusting incidents could've been avoided.
Moving forward: I can indeed "say they don't". I've never heard of any of the groups you mentioned showing up at a demonstration to deliberately silence protesters they disagree by using violence, intimidation or any other means for that matter, as AntiFA has done many times in the US & other nations (& continues to do). I've never heard of, or seen any other well funded group who make it plainly known they're against free speech, against the U.S. Constitution & any who support it, & make good on their promise to use violence & intimidation to shut down any demonstration their wealthy backers send them to in order to prevent peaceful demonstrations from being able to take place at all. That's multi-level criminal behavior which violates Constitutional Law. Yet, not surprisingly, they keep getting away with it.
bit_user said:
The most dangerous corruption is right out in the open. Wealthy elites and multinational businesses funding politicians (or threatening primary challenges against them) who then write tax cuts and loopholes into countless laws. This leads to one of the two things that blew up the Greek economy, which is that almost nobody paid any taxes. And let's not forget the regulation-slashing they pursue, so they can trash the air, water, and land that rightfully belong to the people who need to breathe, drink, and live on it.
bit_user said:
What is your beef with George Soros?
I believe I've already answered that question several times.bit_user said:
What is your beef with George Soros?
bit_user said:
Oh, you barely scratched the surface. Most of your links are worthless, as they don't really prove anything. It's true that the protest in Berkeley was shameful, but you really can't extrapolate from that one event to say anything meaningful about such a large group of people.
bit_user said:
I think my point was a valid clarification of my views and I felt it was warranted in order to highlight what I'm actually concerned about vs. the way you imagine elites are using their influence in harmful ways.
bit_user said:
First, have you checked the subject of this thread? We're already off-topic with AntiFa. I actually wasn't trying to change the subject, but add a clarification as mentioned.
bit_user said:
I don't see any damning evidence, but thanks for clarifying your position.
bit_user said:
Again, if Soros or anyone else actually paid someone to do something illegal, then they should be prosecuted. If there was even a hint of truth to that, I think there are plenty of state Attorneys General who'd take that case, if not even the FBI.
bit_user said:
Just how much of your freedom and autonomy are you sacrificing to false prophets?
You even up-voted your pal twice in the comments he posted before your own which I'm replying to now. You know, please, don't bother fixing it, really no need, but I now really have to wonder in regards to your credibility as a mod & in general. Is this something that's done regularly around here by you, or maybe just a glitch able to be taken advantage of? Just sayin, finding a way to deliberately upvote twice (if that is indeed the case?) on a topic that should've come to an end long ago but hasn't because the idea of anyone but you having the last word is just unacceptable, just seems kind of desperate, over-zealous, & pitiful to me, is all...
And don't single out FOX, those who own the MSM networks are RL good friends. They attend the same clubs, their children attend one another's birthday parties, etc. They've far more in common with one another than they do with you, me, or the saps they'd say they create their "news" for. The left-right divide is well in control by the owners of all MSM networks. My guess is you know that much but it just grinds your gears there are people out there who no longer fall for it. Which makes me wonder why I'm even bothering to reply to anything you have to say. Btw, I didn't bother checking out those 3 links you suggested, not because I don't care, but because they're not well funded orgs (like AntiFa) hiring actors to show up at demonstrations to suppress dissent, free speech, basic rights, with violence & intimidation. They aren't the ones openly against the US Constitution & funded by billionaires like George Soros via his network of NGO's & affiliates with an end goal to shut down debate or discourse on any idea deemed inappropriate. Those groups you mentioned are more or less innocuous & hardly any pay attention to anything they have to say, which is the way it'd remain if not for those who seek to impose their ideas unto others, get paid to actually do so, & end up violating our Constitutional Rights in doing so.
Is an Orwellian future your ideal? If not, I'd check your perceived privilege to shut down free speech from others, because that is precisely the recipe for a police state which you seem to be promoting if I read your words right. And again, hope it's all worth it for you, please feel free to share how worth it if you wish. lol
Let's stick to one topic at a time here, and rather than regurgitate any info about any economic "crisis" you know about, like those who only promote the exact same narrative of the MSM, remember some of us actually know a thing or two underlying the situations & stories they shamelessly parrot one another about. If you're unable to maintain genuine discourse about the topic of why groups like AntiFa are wrong & un-American, then I doubt I'd want to waste my time discussing what you perceive to be "the facts" about any economic crisis. But, just a word of advice, before concerning yourself with economic problems in other nations, maybe it'd be a better idea to stick to the ones we face here in the US first...
Absolutely right, I barely scratched the surface, & ya, Berkeley (where yet another violent group similar to AntiFa was paid by Soros) is shameful (& merely a show), in comparison to some other events & incidents which have occurred elsewhere when paid shills show up to break up otherwise peaceful demonstrations & prevent free speech from being expressed. However, to say those links are worthless is tantamount to ignoring inconvenient facts. Researching the roots of censorship is something people should care enough to do themselves. I took literally a minute or two to find a fair amount of links, making sure to include some MSM stories as well (with the exception of the site pretending to be ABC), to point out the kind of info stated above & show there's plenty of info one can look up themselves on the issue.
Yep. But too often politics & corruption get in the way. Besides. Even if, by some miracle, people like Soros were prosecuted, unlike many others who know who what he does, I wouldn't want to wish to see him dehumanized by being sent to prison. I'd merely like to see him stop using his foundations, go betweens, powerful connections & wealth, to stop further destroying & dividing the US & other nations. I'd only wish it to stop. What's done is done, seeing it stop so that a one of many prerequisites for a healthy society to actually take root someday could be in place would be more than enough.
You even up-voted your pal twice in the comments he posted before your own which I'm replying to now. You know, please, don't bother fixing it, really no need, but I now really have to wonder in regards to your credibility as a mod & in general. Is this something that's done regularly around here by you, or maybe just a glitch able to be taken advantage of? Just sayin, finding a way to deliberately upvote twice (if that is indeed the case?) on a topic that should've come to an end long ago but hasn't because the idea of anyone but you having the last word is just unacceptable, just seems kind of desperate, over-zealous, & pitiful to me, is all...
Is an Orwellian future your ideal? If not, I'd check your perceived privilege to shut down free speech from others, because that is precisely the recipe for a police state which you seem to be promoting if I read your words right. And again, hope it's all worth it for you, please feel free to share how worth it if you wish. lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffI-tWh37UY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffI-tWh37UY
See what I did here? Another protected right that the left wishes to remove. The start to total censorship starts innocently enough... ban "hate" speech... make it a crime. Problem is, the definition will change, the line will move. Given enough time, the First Amendment protection of natural rights (just like the 2nd Amendment) will be redefined... it might be a generation or so from now, or not, but it will eventually be criminal to even think your leaders are pompous fools for doing this thing or that.
The thing with AntiFa (Anti-Fascists) is they wish to participate in violence more than the prescribed petitioning of government... at least the ones showing up to other protests. Free speech protects them having their views, it doesn't protect them for being violent. Regardless if how much, or what they are getting paid with, if at all.
Those funding violence behind the scenes are usually smart enough to cover their tracks well enough for at worst plausible deniability, and at best, never seen at all (from their perspective.) Those that get caught usually screw up somewhere: get to cocky, let the wrong (or right) person in close enough, etc. Not all payments are monetary either. There are those who will do anything for the promise of fame and/or power. (Many find themselves "pwned" in the end: they being loose ends, et al.)
The thing with AntiFa (Anti-Fascists) is they wish to participate in violence more than the prescribed petitioning of government... at least the ones showing up to other protests. Free speech protects them having their views, it doesn't protect them for being violent. Regardless if how much, or what they are getting paid with, if at all.
Those funding violence behind the scenes are usually smart enough to cover their tracks well enough for at worst plausible deniability, and at best, never seen at all (from their perspective.) Those that get caught usually screw up somewhere: get to cocky, let the wrong (or right) person in close enough, etc. Not all payments are monetary either. There are those who will do anything for the promise of fame and/or power. (Many find themselves "pwned" in the end: they being loose ends, et al.)
Yes, it is a slippery slope. Slippery slopes have been exploited for centuries to accomplish totalitarian rule too. Yes, that was 22 years ago. The climate in the States still isn't one where She, or anyone else, short of causing a [civil] war could manage the stripping of firearms in direct violation of the 2nd Amendment from The People. It doesn't mean that they have given up or changed views. They just choose to be more sneaky. First by trying to use emotion over fact to sway anyone they can that guns are bad and only the government should have them. Second to take advantage of any slippery slope they can. Creating division to both distract and accomplish goals.
The best way to hide a real conspiracy, if it can't be kept under wraps, is to make it look like a conspiracy theory, which automatically gets dismissed, just as you have demonstrated here. (Nothing wrong with dismissing conspiracy theories when it's obvious they can't be true. It's the ones that you can't disprove, let alone prove that are the ones to examine closer.)
As to why the right wing believes they own free speech? For the exact same reasons the left does. (Reality is Right-Left... same coin, different sides... views made to oppose each other to draw attention away from said fact. just like Republicans and Democrats)
AntiFa has become the bad guys when they decide to act in violence. But they show up at speeches and demonstrations with the intent to disrupt or silence others. It would be different if all they did was shoot their mouths off. They cross the line when they attack, just as the Klan, BLM, Neo-Nazis, Panthers, or any other group crosses it when they go start a riot, a fight, or other violence.
That's the thing. The day you know with any certainty is either the day everyone finds out and does something about it, or their plans come to fruition and there is no longer any need to be in the shadows. I don't know of anything that proves he isn't involved either. You might be right and that Soros is just a scape-goat, based on previous activities, but without enough either way... doubt can linger on for a long time. Now, the best way to come close to the truth, if not the truth itself, is to follow the money. (Just be careful just in case there is something to it.)
That's the thing. The day you know with any certainty is either the day everyone finds out and does something about it, or their plans come to fruition and there is no longer any need to be in the shadows. I don't know of anything that proves he isn't involved either. You might be right and that Soros is just a scape-goat, based on previous activities, but without enough either way... doubt can linger on for a long time. Now, the best way to come close to the truth, if not the truth itself, is to follow the money. (Just be careful just in case there is something to it.)
bit_user said:
I think my point was a valid clarification of my views and I felt it was warranted in order to highlight what I'm actually concerned about vs. the way you imagine elites are using their influence in harmful ways.
Yep. But too often politics & corruption get in the way.bit_user said:
Again, if Soros or anyone else actually paid someone to do something illegal, then they should be prosecuted. If there was even a hint of truth to that, I think there are plenty of state Attorneys General who'd take that case, if not even the FBI.
bit_user said:
Just how much of your freedom and autonomy are you sacrificing to false prophets?