Collection of AMD K10 data

[slim142]

The $1 Million Dollar Question is...

When?

 

[qcmadness]

Yes, I have a lot of respect for Hans. He was the one who refuted the notion that K8L had 4 instruction issue. It is too bad that he stopped posting technical articles on his website. Those were first rate. I know of another gentleman who did very detailed analysis of memory and cache on AMD and Intel processors but then he stopped when K8 was introduced.

That thread you linked to was brutal. It had already deteriorated into flaming by the 2nd page and just got worse from there. Yes, it does have real information in it but the flames and personal attacks really knock things down. I once described that on AMDZ as like eating ice cream with sawdust in it. This thread is going smoothly with lots of information and discussion and no flames and that makes a huge difference in how easy it is to read.

Yes, everything I've seen would suggest 64KB's each for Data and Instructions. BTW, I've just seen at AMD their latest press release is Ultimate Datacenter Performance-Per-Watt. This again makes me think that the 40% number is mostly power draw and not processor speed.

Too bad that AMD's claim about performance is not valid :?

 

[Julian33]

I don't think they'd stivk it in for release - surely with ZRAM being so radically different it would require an entire new version of the chip?

It would be really cool if we see this as one of the enhancements in the 2008 update though.

 

[CaptRobertApril]

I have to admit that I greased my head since some of this thread has been sliding over the top of it, but my "seat of the pants" guesstimate is that K10 performance will compare within 7-10% of competitive Intel offerings. I can't see anything so breathtakingly innovative or different that is going to amount to much more than that. Again, I'm only dealing clock to clock, not per watt, which is a measure that is irrelevant for my own purposes.

 

[rammedstein]

I was reading somewhere that the Barcelona's memory controller will be able to support DDR2 as well as DDR3, so when the time comes you can just stick it in a motherboard with the right socket and use DDR3, is this true? Also, I'm assuming this cores memory controller will support 8GB of memory , eg, a regular desktop board with 4 ram slots, and four 2gb ddr2 sticks, like the ones Kingston makes?

 

[qcmadness]

Later version CPUs will have DDR-3 support, but for Barcelona and its derivatives, they only integrate two 64-bit DDR-2 memory controllers.

 

[CaptRobertApril]

Later version CPUs will have DDR-3 support, but for Barcelona and its derivatives, they only integrate two 64-bit DDR-2 memory controllers.

Correct me if I'm a dong, but the 2x64bit DDR2 controllers should be able to handle 4GB each?

 

[qcmadness]

Later version CPUs will have DDR-3 support, but for Barcelona and its derivatives, they only integrate two 64-bit DDR-2 memory controllers.

Correct me if I'm a dong, but the 2x64bit DDR2 controllers should be able to handle 4GB each?

I have no idea, but I will expect each controller can handle 2GB or 4GB depending on the speed.

 

[gOJDO]

Later version CPUs will have DDR-3 support, but for Barcelona and its derivatives, they only integrate two 64-bit DDR-2 memory controllers.

Correct me if I'm a dong, but the 2x64bit DDR2 controllers should be able to handle 4GB each?
The sAM2+ and s1207+(Quad FX) will support 1067MHz unbuffered DRAM:
2channels x 64bit x 1066.666MHz = 136Gb/s = 17GB/s or 8.5GB/s per channel

The s1207(Opteron 2xxx/8xxx) will support 667MHz buffered DRAM:
2channels x 64bit x 666.666MHz = 85.3Gb/s = 10.7GB/s or 5.3GB/s per channel

 

[qcmadness]

The sAM2+ and s1207+(Quad FX) will support 1067MHz unbuffered DRAM:
2channels x 64bit x 1066.666MHz = 136Gb/s = 17GB/s or 8.5GB/s per channel

The s1207(Opteron 2xxx/8xxx) will support 667MHz buffered DRAM:
2channels x 64bit x 666.666MHz = 85.3Gb/s = 10.7GB/s or 5.3GB/s per channel

I think he is asking about the maximum memory size supported per channel

 

[abw]

as the core2duo is the last iteration of the p6 line, barcelona will be the last for the k7......surely that the perfs will be significantly higher than its intel s coutepart...amd claim some 42 % improvement in certain tasks..more realistically, it will be closer to a solid 20%, according to ipc improvement available...the main advantage of the core duo is its 128 bit sse units, while amd s k8 only offer 64 bit see unit...with a width of 128 bit execution unit, along with the 4 instructions/cycle capability, this processor will blow up intel s product..that s why intel is desesperatly pushing for 45 nm, which will allow it a higher frequency to catch up in the performance duel..frequency versus ipc....smell the p4 versus axp era...

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

Very interesting information. It's great to see that AMD has a plan to strike back and get itself back into the game.

 

[CaptRobertApril]

The sAM2+ and s1207+(Quad FX) will support 1067MHz unbuffered DRAM:
2channels x 64bit x 1066.666MHz = 136Gb/s = 17GB/s or 8.5GB/s per channel

The s1207(Opteron 2xxx/8xxx) will support 667MHz buffered DRAM:
2channels x 64bit x 666.666MHz = 85.3Gb/s = 10.7GB/s or 5.3GB/s per channel

I think he is asking about the maximum memory size supported per channel

Yeah, I'm angling for a 2xQuad and I wanted to see what the max RAM would be for a K10 setup as a single CPU or as a double. It would seem that the AM2+ is for single and the 1207+ would be for double, so would it or would it not figure that the 1207+ could handle twice as much physical RAM?

 

[gOJDO]

Oh..I thought that he was speaking about bandwidth. It would be the same as for the K8. The s1207 with buffered ODMC will support 4GB per channel, while the unbuffered ODMC will support 2GB per channel.

 

[CaptRobertApril]

Oh..I thought that he was speaking about bandwidth. It would be the same as for the K8. The s1207 with buffered ODMC will support 4GB per channel, while the unbuffered ODMC will support 2GB per channel.

OK, let's see if I got this straight:

The sAM2+, 1067MHz unbuffered DRAM:

4GB Total RAM in single CPU config.

The s1207+(Quad FX), 1067MHz unbuffered DRAM:

8GB Total RAM in dual CPU config.

The s1207(Opteron 2xxx/8xxx) will support 667MHz buffered DRAM:

8GB Total RAM in single CPU config. 16GB Total RAM in dual CPU config.

Right? :?

 

[Scientia_From_AMDZ]

Yeah, I noticed that verbage in other articles --- 40% Pref/watt sound more reasonable that a straight up 40% per clock IPC advantage.

My thinking was along the lines of this. AMD will probably match the power draw of C2D. However, a dual or quad FSB northbridge would draw more power and FBDIMM would draw more still. They would need 29% less power draw in a system comparison to hit the 40% number. It is difficult to say because they could also be doing Tulsa comparisons since this is currently the only 4-way. I'm certain they will have plenty of slides on this by the June Analysts Meeting. The big question is if they will have anything sooner. Supposedly, there will be limited deliveries of Barcelona in Q2 however, actual volume looks like Q3.

Parrot challenged the notion of ZRAM in the L3 cache which created some decent snooping around to figure out that, at least in this die shot, ZRAM is not operative.

We had the same discussion on AMDZ and concluded that the cache size eliminated ZRAM and there was also a lot of doubt that ZRAM would be fast enough. I had still been wondering though if TTRAM would be fast enough and it too is small than SRAM. Lately I've been wondering if AMD has any ideas about using ZRAM for video buffering with an on-die GPU.

 

[qcmadness]

OK, let's see if I got this straight:
The sAM2+, 1067MHz unbuffered DRAM:
4GB Total RAM in single CPU config.

The s1207+(Quad FX), 1067MHz unbuffered DRAM:
8GB Total RAM in dual CPU config.

The s1207(Opteron 2xxx/8xxx) will support 667MHz buffered DRAM:
8GB Total RAM in single CPU config. 16GB Total RAM in dual CPU config.

Right? :?

I have found out that Asus M2N32-SLI Premium Vista Edition said that the maximum memory supported is 8GB.
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=101&l3=300&model=1553&modelmenu=2

And I have also found out that from AMD's technical paper,
the maximum support memory is 16GB for one Socket F CPU 8O
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/32559.pdf
Page 98

Updated: from page 32 of the same document, the maximum memory supported for Socket AM2 will be 8GB, the same as claimed by Asus.

 

[Scientia_From_AMDZ]

as the core2duo is the last iteration of the p6 line, barcelona will be the last for the k7

Not sure what you mean. The P4 line will end with Tulsa. C2D is derived from PIII. PIII->Banias/Dothan->Yonah->C2D. However, C2D will continue to evolve every two years according to Intel and AMD will also change the architecture.

......surely that the perfs will be significantly higher than its intel s coutepart

No. The only area where AMD might still have a big lead is in purely stack based FP computations. I don't see a big lead by either company in SSE or Integer.

...amd claim some 42 % improvement in certain tasks..more realistically, it will be closer to a solid 20%, according to ipc improvement available...

An actual improvement in IPC of 42% would be nearly impossible. AMD gained about 20% with K8 over K7. Intel gained about 20% with Pentium M over PIII and about same with C2D. AMD will need another jump of about 20% to match C2D.

the main advantage of the core duo is its 128 bit sse units, while amd s k8 only offer 64 bit see unit...with a width of 128 bit execution unit, along with the 4 instructions/cycle capability, this processor will blow up intel s product

No. You are wrong. AMD's hardware doubling on SSE plus doubling of the L1 cache bus and instruction Prefetch will match what Intel already has. Intel had the same doubling from Yonah to Conroe. That is why Conroe is much faster in SSE.

..that s why intel is desesperatly pushing for 45 nm,

AMD is making an even bigger push to reduce the time to 45nm; are they desperate too? You need to understand that quad cores are big chips and are much more economical on 45nm than 65nm for both Intel and AMD.

 

[CaptRobertApril]

OK, let's see if I got this straight:
The sAM2+, 1067MHz unbuffered DRAM:
4GB Total RAM in single CPU config.

The s1207+(Quad FX), 1067MHz unbuffered DRAM:
8GB Total RAM in dual CPU config.

The s1207(Opteron 2xxx/8xxx) will support 667MHz buffered DRAM:
8GB Total RAM in single CPU config. 16GB Total RAM in dual CPU config.

Right? :?

I have found out that Asus M2N32-SLI Premium Vista Edition said that the maximum memory supported is 8GB.
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=101&l3=300&model=1553&modelmenu=2

And I have also found out that from AMD's technical paper,
the maximum support memory is 16GB 8O
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/32559.pdf
Page 98


Thanks for the info, however I'm now more:

Than ever!

:?

 

[qcmadness]

See the updated one

 

[CaptRobertApril]

See the updated one

Thanks. That's a bit better. What I'm still funcused about is:

QFX (dual socket F) can handle 32GB??? Really???

And just 'cuz the M2N32-SLI can take 8GB does that translate into the chip on the AM2 socket being able to use it all?

:?

 

[qcmadness]

See the updated one

Thanks. That's a bit better. What I'm still funcused about is:

QFX (dual socket F) can handle 32GB??? Really???

And just 'cuz the M2N32-SLI can take 8GB does that translate into the chip on the AM2 socket being able to use it all?

:?

I think so. From what I read on the AMD's technical paper, socket AM2 CPUs can accept 2GB memory modules and 4 sticks of memory modules can be used.

QFX can handle 32GB if:
1. memory modules are registered
8 memory slots are available

 

[Scientia_From_AMDZ]

And I have also found out that from AMD's technical paper,
the maximum support memory is 16GB for one Socket F CPU 8O
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/32559.pdf
Page 98

Updated: from page 32 of the same document, the maximum memory supported for Socket AM2 will be 8GB, the same as claimed by Asus.

They currently support 4 sticks per channel with registered memory and 2 sticks per channel with unregistered. Since 2GB is the common memory size this would be:

unregistered - 2 channels X 2 sticks X 2GB = 8GB total
registered - 2 channels X 4 sticks X 2GB = 16GB total

The memory controller itself can handle up to 16GB per DIMM. So, if 4GB DDR2 DIMMs are released soon anything from Revision F and up can handle it. The maximum speed for Revision F and G is DDR2-800 so Barcelona does support a bit faster speed with DDR2-1066.

The maximum for 1207 with 2BG registered DIMMs is:

1 socket - 16GB
2 socket - 32GB
4 socket - 64GB

Some server OEMs do have special hardware on the motherboard to allow 8 sticks per channel with registered DIMMs (128 GB for quad socket). However, this is not a function of AMD's hardware.

 

[qcmadness]

They currently support 4 sticks per channel with registered memory and 2 sticks per channel with unregistered. Since 2GB is the common memory size this would be:

unregistered - 2 channels X 2 sticks X 2GB = 8GB total
registered - 2 channels X 4 sticks X 2GB = 16GB total

The memory controller itself can handle up to 16GB per DIMM. So, if 4GB DDR2 DIMMs are released soon anything from Revision F and up can handle it. The maximum speed for Revision F and G is DDR2-800 so Barcelona does support a bit faster speed with DDR2-1066.

Yes, I got it wrongly (16Gigabyte => 16Gigabit) :roll:
Thanks for correction

 

[CaptRobertApril]

And I have also found out that from AMD's technical paper,
the maximum support memory is 16GB for one Socket F CPU 8O
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/32559.pdf
Page 98

Updated: from page 32 of the same document, the maximum memory supported for Socket AM2 will be 8GB, the same as claimed by Asus.

They currently support 4 sticks per channel with registered memory and 2 sticks per channel with unregistered. Since 2GB is the common memory size this would be:

unregistered - 2 channels X 2 sticks X 2GB = 8GB total
registered - 2 channels X 4 sticks X 2GB = 16GB total

The memory controller itself can handle up to 16GB per DIMM. So, if 4GB DDR2 DIMMs are released soon anything from Revision F and up can handle it. The maximum speed for Revision F and G is DDR2-800 so Barcelona does support a bit faster speed with DDR2-1066.

The maximum for 1207 with 2BG registered DIMMs is:

1 socket - 16GB
2 socket - 32GB
4 socket - 64GB

Some server OEMs do have special hardware on the motherboard to allow 8 sticks per channel with registered DIMMs (128 GB for quad socket). However, this is not a function of AMD's hardware.

Thanks for the clarification, guys.

Ok then, let's do some hypotheticals (all UNregistered):

Single Socket AM2+ - 2GB x 4sticks = 8GB

Single Socket AM2+ - 4GB x 4sticks = 16GB

Dual Socket 1207 - 2GB x 4sticks = 8GB

Dual Socket 1207 - 4GB x 4sticks = 16GB

Dual Socket 1207 - 4GB x 8sticks = 32GB

Are all those configurations correct and would K10 be able to fully access all that RAM, given the appropriate motherboard and OS?