Combat Logic

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I need some players to take a look at the new combat code and make
comments about the new system.

Fighter wings have a more agressive behavior.

The older ship logic has been restored.

I no longer have access to the vgaplanet.com web site using FTP so I
placed it up on my wifes iDisk account:

You can download it from this link:

http://homepage.mac.com/ti2gr/.Public/host190.exe

Tim

 

[nameless]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Honestly it is a joke (and no that is not because of the date of the
new host).
IE. Combat is still aborted too early - sometimes wings do seem to
disappear from the middle of the vcr, without being shutdown.
Beam and missle range of wings seem to be screwed up.
To name a few things.

And then it is good that you do not or can not upload that host onto
your side.
I would not recommend to do so neither with this or any other new host,
which tests out the new combat code, untill it did get aproofed by the
community.

And then you should also try to update your help files concerning
combat.

cocomax wrote:
> I need some players to take a look at the new combat code and make
> comments about the new system.
>
> Fighter wings have a more agressive behavior.
>
> The older ship logic has been restored.
>
> I no longer have access to the vgaplanet.com web site using FTP so I
> placed it up on my wifes iDisk account:
>
> You can download it from this link:
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/ti2gr/.Public/host190.exe
>
> Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

What's the problem with the web site ?
I hope it is a temporary one (?)

Lordfire


"cocomax" <cocomax@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112894060.602975.309350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I need some players to take a look at the new combat code and make
> comments about the new system.
>
> Fighter wings have a more agressive behavior.
>
> The older ship logic has been restored.
>
> I no longer have access to the vgaplanet.com web site using FTP so I
> placed it up on my wifes iDisk account:
>
> You can download it from this link:
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/ti2gr/.Public/host190.exe
>
> Tim
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Ok so some things may not b as u like, but is the combat better then
current or is it that u wish we continue using current combat logic
with no fixes...

Is the new logic better then current and also any sort of voteing would
not b true to the actual way combat was meant to b..ie.. those would
vote on specific quirks that they like and disaprove of logic mods
which disadvantage their desired race???..ie maybe fighter weapon
range...and any sort of limitations on fighter combat time in the VCR.

I would like my ships to actually stop acting like high speed circuit
races myself...seems long distance weaponed ships are having a field
day at present.

Cheers.
Lee.



Nameless wrote:
> Honestly it is a joke (and no that is not because of the date of the
> new host).
> IE. Combat is still aborted too early - sometimes wings do seem to
> disappear from the middle of the vcr, without being shutdown.
> Beam and missle range of wings seem to be screwed up.
> To name a few things.
>
> And then it is good that you do not or can not upload that host onto
> your side.
> I would not recommend to do so neither with this or any other new
host,
> which tests out the new combat code, untill it did get aproofed by
the
> community.
>
> And then you should also try to update your help files concerning
> combat.
>
> cocomax wrote:
> > I need some players to take a look at the new combat code and make
> > comments about the new system.
> >
> > Fighter wings have a more agressive behavior.
> >
> > The older ship logic has been restored.
> >
> > I no longer have access to the vgaplanet.com web site using FTP so
I
> > placed it up on my wifes iDisk account:
> >
> > You can download it from this link:
> >
> > http://homepage.mac.com/ti2gr/.Public/host190.exe
> >
> > Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

The new host revision 190 removes the ships circling together in a
fixed ring.

The avoid base checks are gone, ships now track targets like they used
to in older hosts.

If your ship is set to NOT attack the planet below, the base can not
fire ion cannons at you.

If your fighter wing is not set for ground attack the AAA guns can not
fire at you, even if you are right over the planet.

Fighters aggressingly jump right on top of their targets and blast away
like crazy.

Tim

 

[Sparrow]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I just tested a combat Ships vs. FWs which was won big for the ships
before the change is now barely won -> Fighters got much stronger! This
is due to the fact that they really jump on top of the ships, giving
them no chance to fire at the fighters while they are approaching.

I agree that the FWs need to be more focused on their targets, but why
do they have to jump?! Can't they approach normally? Before they were
flying aroud in circles, seemingly more or less firing on ships which
just happened to cross their path. If they now have a target I would
say that is enough, they don't need to get the first volley for free!

One would also have to look at the AF ETs, especially the AF-Computer
may loose some of his power, as the first shot only is on long range -
and fighters are jumping on the ships now. This removes the advantage
to reduce their numbers before the FWs get their first shot out.

>From the first quick peek I would say the FW part is better, but the
jumping needs to be removed!

 

[nameless]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Oh there are more features in this new combat code.
In one test I did set up, the 100 enemy Lokis were not able to shoot
down a single type 3 Cent fighter in a mixed wing (2 wings: 5000 type-1
and 100 type-3), only about 900 type-1s (together) - seems a little bit
strange, especially considering that there were 5 vcrs.
The visible combat area is only a part of the combat area.
And comparing the little Loki vs Wing scenario with an older one from
2003,
the one from 2003 was still preferable - oh not because the Lokis did
perform better at that time, but because the wings were at that time
able to kill all enemy Lokis within one turn, they still have the
firepower (the firepower is better now), they are just leaving the
combat too early.


cocomax wrote:
> The new host revision 190 removes the ships circling together in a
> fixed ring.
>
> The avoid base checks are gone, ships now track targets like they
used
> to in older hosts.
>
> If your ship is set to NOT attack the planet below, the base can not
> fire ion cannons at you.
>
> If your fighter wing is not set for ground attack the AAA guns can
not
> fire at you, even if you are right over the planet.
>
> Fighters aggressingly jump right on top of their targets and blast
away
> like crazy.
>
> Tim

 

[nameless]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Additionally the base now gets damaged from orbital bombardement (at
least from fighters) even in case the base shield is avtive and not
destroyed during the whole turn - at least according to log message.
The base shield does not get a log message when destroyed.

 

[nameless]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Nameless wrote:
> Additionally the base now gets damaged from orbital bombardement (at
> least from fighters) even in case the base shield is avtive and not
> destroyed during the whole turn - at least according to log message.
> The base shield does not get a log message when destroyed.

Especially funny considering, that all MMLs and Turbo Laser of the Loki
did hit the wing! I have not yet looked at the mixed wing beam weapon
stat.
And both fighter types do have an evasive rating of at least 60.
Somehow I have the feeling that this intended (or unintended) as an
improved screening of the valuable fighter types.

 

[nuffersp]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I just received my RST and one of the battles I (Lizards) were going to
win against the Rebels. A 1500 tick battle and half way through none
of my ships would not fire against the enemy. Granted this maybe
correct because of personel losess, not enough power, or no ORD. Until
the report or some means of telling the players why there not firing,
the players will always feel cheated and declare a bug. More
information is needed as to why some ships react the way the do.

*** Starting ***
4 Rushes
1 Guardian

16 Reptiles

*** Midpoint ***
3 Rushes
2 wings

15 Reptile

*** End ***
3 Rushes
2 wings

0 Reptiles

Porthos

 

[nameless]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

You sure that the host 190 was used - a test host not accesible through
Tims side. If not please comment on this in another thread, as it would
only be confusing.

nuffersp@yahoo.com wrote:
> I just received my RST and one of the battles I (Lizards) were going
to
> win against the Rebels. A 1500 tick battle and half way through none
> of my ships would not fire against the enemy. Granted this maybe
> correct because of personel losess, not enough power, or no ORD.
Until
> the report or some means of telling the players why there not firing,
> the players will always feel cheated and declare a bug. More
> information is needed as to why some ships react the way the do.
>
> *** Starting ***
> 4 Rushes
> 1 Guardian
>
> 16 Reptiles
>
> *** Midpoint ***
> 3 Rushes
> 2 wings
>
> 15 Reptile
>
> *** End ***
> 3 Rushes
> 2 wings
>
> 0 Reptiles
>
> Porthos

 

[nameless]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Nameless wrote:
> Nameless wrote:
> > Additionally the base now gets damaged from orbital bombardement
(at
> > least from fighters) even in case the base shield is avtive and not
> > destroyed during the whole turn - at least according to log
message.
> > The base shield does not get a log message when destroyed.
>
> Especially funny considering, that all MMLs and Turbo Laser of the
Loki
> did hit the wing! I have not yet looked at the mixed wing beam weapon
> stat.
> And both fighter types do have an evasive rating of at least 60.
> Somehow I have the feeling that this intended (or unintended) as an
> improved screening of the valuable fighter types.

And then the part about the Point Defense systems is not a screening
effect.
In a battle between 1 k Ahir (2 wings a 1 k) against 80 Lokis (as in
the instances before no exotic techs enabled), the loss was only
56 lost Ahirs (in 5 vcrs) and all point defense weapons fired did hit.
And for once all enemy ships were destroyed, eventhough ie. the first
vcr did end around tic 470 and only a few Lokis were shoot down.

 

[nameless]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Oh well even 200 Lokis and all ets, which are helpful against fighters
being enabled (all shield boosts, anti fighter,all attack and all
evasive rating boosts etc.). And still the Fed will loose (78 ships did
survive) - the ahirs (again 2 wings a 1 k Ahirs) lost in all 5 vcrs
about 320 fighters!
In the first of the 5 vcrs only 17 fighters were shoot down.
And the Lokis were not all starting in one big lump.
Do we now have a monster fighter!?
Well I guess for the next test I will reduce the number of wings to 1.

 

[nameless]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Correction:
Only were 100 Lokis and the attack enemy ship option was not enabled
and the position of the Lokis was random (also in the Loki vs Cent
Fighters the position in the test before was also with random position
and attack enemy ships not enabled for the Lokis). The behaviour of the
Lokis does improve when attack enemy ships is enabled and they all
start in one place - in that case 100 Lokis will win against the Ahirs.

If for the Lokis attack enemy ships is not enabled and position is
random - it does not make a real difference if one or two enemy Ahir
wings are present.
(In the instance of 1 Ahir fighter wing (this time 2 k fighter) against
this time really 200 Lokis - the first vcr did end with all Ahirs
surviving and 3-4 Lokis been shoot down. Combat ended around tic 250.)

Still the autohit of the lowest present fighter type is not good.

Also really strange is that the fighter settings (of Cent fighters) do
not seem
to influence the length of the vcr, in contrast to the attack enemy
ship settings of the Lokis - if the Lokis had attack enemy ships on
combat did last 500 and something tics otherwise often only around 200
and something.



Nameless wrote:
> Oh well even 200 Lokis and all ets, which are helpful against
fighters
> being enabled (all shield boosts, anti fighter,all attack and all
> evasive rating boosts etc.). And still the Fed will loose (78 ships
did
> survive) - the ahirs (again 2 wings a 1 k Ahirs) lost in all 5 vcrs
> about 320 fighters!
> In the first of the 5 vcrs only 17 fighters were shoot down.
> And the Lokis were not all starting in one big lump.
> Do we now have a monster fighter!?
> Well I guess for the next test I will reduce the number of wings to
1.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

birds eye view of what Im observing now with the logic after opening my
rst file

the fighters are still circling around if there are only enemy fighter
wings ( but its not like before where they just do a conga line ) some
will head for a ship , shoot and then circle again.. some dont.

At least the Bot type 1 fighters can shoot at the colonial fighters
wings again

However the fighters still appear to be skipping around the map and
some of them are outside the circle grid

the range, damage of the Ion Cannons and the AA guns on a base have
become impressive.. im glad that if you dont set attack base on the
base wont shoot you even if your on top of it..

cocomax wrote:
> The new host revision 190 removes the ships circling together in a
> fixed ring.
>
> The avoid base checks are gone, ships now track targets like they
used
> to in older hosts.
>
> If your ship is set to NOT attack the planet below, the base can not
> fire ion cannons at you.
>
> If your fighter wing is not set for ground attack the AAA guns can
not
> fire at you, even if you are right over the planet.
>
> Fighters aggressingly jump right on top of their targets and blast
away
> like crazy.
>
> Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

The fighter weapons have not been changed, what was added was logic
that causes the fighters to:

1. Lock onto a target ship and fly to it at best possible speed

2. Slow down as the target is reached.

3. Match speed with target and FIRE FIRE FIRE from as close as possible
until target is dead or fighter wing is dead.

Under this new system fighter wings can OVERWELM a ship, if we go
with this system PD weapons might have to be upgraded, slightly.

-----

The OLD fighter logic that people complained about for years as being
flawed was as follows.


1. Lock onto a target ship and fly to it at best possible speed

2. Fighter fires at target as it passes

3. If fighter is low on energy wait until battery is recharged before
going to step 1.

Under the old system the fighter wings did lots of circling and
circling. . .

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Which fighter type do you see skipping around the map, they SHOULD NOT
be doing that, somthing is still wrong with the movement updates for
fighters.

I need to dig into that and find the cause.

Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

The big question is:

Under the new fighter logic are fighters overpowered or where they
always unpowered due to thier poor logic and this fix corrects the
issue.

Are fighters expensive enough compared to the amount of damage that
they do?

Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

mixed wings and single type wings.. so all of them do.

would you like me to mail you the rst so you can have a look at the VCR?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Well, I think this is good step as fighters were acting very oddly in
battles. But same time wings will now be quite lethal. Big
fighter-hordes are common in this game, so what can you do against them
if they are stored within carriers and you got only regular ships to
use? Or he simple does have too much fighters, + now they are deadlier
than ever. 10 PD slots in your massive battleship is not enough - you
are already dead.

I don't know if it is possible, but it would be great if you could get
more slots from exotic tech But... is it even possible to add into
game. Like pay 100,000 + 10,000 / turn and get +5 slots And that
could be restricted to certain mass, so you could not use million small
ships to kill fighters totally, but instead add protection to your most
important ships.

Just my 2,6 cents.






cocomax wrote:
> The big question is:
>
> Under the new fighter logic are fighters overpowered or where they
> always unpowered due to thier poor logic and this fix corrects the
> issue.
>
> Are fighters expensive enough compared to the amount of damage that
> they do?
>
> Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

One way of pumping up PD systems is to increase fire rate and recharge
rate of the systems.

The fire rate and recharge rate of large ships could be increased, for
example ships with a mass of over 800 get 2X fire rate and ships with
1200 and over mass get 3X PD fire rate, if the player has bought the PD
exotic tech bonus.


Another thing that can be done is limit the number of fighters a race
can own based on the population. Sure fighters are "cheap", but it is
difficult to train enough pilots to field millions of them. . ..

Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I think the new fighter movement behavior is a masive improvement.

We Borg will adapt. Maybe we'll start placing some fighters on some
Biocides and include them in our Borg stacks of Doom.

Perhaps new Quick Strike should be start slowing down near extreme
range of your fighters weapons, fire a round at that point, and cross
the other ship in one pass at a good pace, slow enough to get a few
rounds in, but fast enough that it's not spending much time within Sand
Castor range.

I like the new need for a fleet to start with the same attack vector as
protection against fighter wings.

On the pumping up PD systems, many of these already fire at one round
per combat tick. And also it might be undiserable for PD rate to
increase vs incoming ship weapons fire which a flat increased charge
rate for massive ships would do.

We Borg would love it with our cubes, but I don't think the swarming
races would like it.

The bigest cheap fighter race is the Robots. I see no reason why they
should have trouble programming pilots, particlarly given their low
standards as evidenced by the accuracy rating of their fighters. The
object next to whatever the Cylon pilots are aiming at has a higher
chance of being hit than the one being aimed at!

Similarly, the EE seems to have rather low standards for piloting i'ts
fighters as well.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Fighter wings use 1 RP per wing. . .

What if that changed to 1 RP per 100 fighters in a wing. A 1000 fighter
wing costs you 10 RP.

I could also decrease the speed of all the fighters in the VCR so that
there is more closing time, so that PD systems have more time to hit
them before fighters get to point blank range. . .

Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Fighter wings use 1 RP per wing. . .

What if that changed to 1 RP per 100 fighters in a wing. A 1000 fighter
wing costs you 10 RP.

I could also decrease the speed of all the fighters in the VCR so that
there is more closing time, so that PD systems have more time to hit
them before fighters get to point blank range. . .

Tim

 

[nameless]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

cocomax wrote:
> Fighter wings use 1 RP per wing. . .
>
> What if that changed to 1 RP per 100 fighters in a wing. A 1000
fighter
> wing costs you 10 RP.
>

Well that is a possiblity, but in that case you also should change
something about the rp allocation, for long running games, it will
otherwise hit the EE and Cents
(I will not mention the Dracs, since they are broke and it would not
change anything - no chance or no chance) indeed very hard.

> I could also decrease the speed of all the fighters in the VCR so
that
> there is more closing time, so that PD systems have more time to hit
> them before fighters get to point blank range. . .

Well decrease the speed in general a little bit. And then maybe just
have the pds,
if they have the energy (are loaded) and a enemy wing is in range just
have it shoot at the wing, regardless whether it is the target or not
(and the pd can fire).