[SOLVED] CPU cooler not good enough? 12900K and MSI CoreLiquid 240R

[Calab]

So, I've got a Gigabyte Z690 UD AX DDR4 mainboard with an i9-12900K processor cooled by an MSI CoreLiqid 240R cooler and an Asus RTX 3060 video card. It's all mounted in a Cougar Mesh-G case. The cooler fans are mounted in the front of the case, taking case air and blowing it out the front of the case. There is a 120mm fan in the rear, also exhausting air. The case does have venting in the top, but not enough room to mount the cooler radiator there.

Voltages are around:
12v = 12.24v
5v = 5.1v
3.3v = 3.4v
DIMM = 1.2v
CPU = 1.06v

I've just installed Aida64 and I'm running a stability test. I'm seeing CPU temps as high as 100'C and throttling up to 33%, averaging around 10%.

This sounds like the CPU cooler is not doing it's job.

It's a major job to disassemble the computer and reinstall the cooler, but if it helps I can do it.

- Should the radiator fans be pulling air from inside the case and blowing out, or should I reverse the radiator fans to pull in cool air?
- Is the 240R cooler good enough to handle the 12900K?
- What can I do to reduce the throttling of the CPU?

 

[Lutfij]

Since you're on an i9, you should be on a 360mm radiator'd AIO.

The cooler fans are mounted in the front of the case, taking case air and blowing it out the front of the case.
Ideally, the fans for the AIO would be mounted at the front of the case, intaking cooler ambient air instead of feeding the case's air.

MSI CoreLiqid 240R
Is that the first revision 240R? I would swap that out for something reliably built, if it's the first rev AIO.

 

[Calab]

Since you're on an i9, you should be on a 360mm radiator'd AIO.

MSI CoreLiqid 240R
Is that the first revision 240R? I would swap that out for something reliably built, if it's the first rev AIO.

I don't think the case would accept a 360, unfortunately.

Most likely an first revision. It was purchased back near the end of 2021.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

Should the radiator fans be pulling air from inside the case and blowing out, or should I reverse the radiator fans to pull in cool air?

the way you have it now there is heated air blowing through the radiator so the CPU temperature is not being properly dispersed.

with it pulling cooler outside air in through the radiator this will be cooling the radiator much more helping lower CPU temperatures.

you will also need proper exhaust for the system to remove all the heated air being added to it or all other components will suffer from higher temperatures.
if this case has a vented top panel you may want to add more exhaust there. if not, get a better case for this setup.

 

[Phaaze88]

1)https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...y-hopes-to-fix-issues-with-some-core-i9-chips
Motherboard vendors be running too aggressive settings out of the box. You're going to have to check for a bios update denoting Intel power profile, or manually change bios settings yourself.

2)MAG Coreliquid Version 1s were prone to clogging earlier than they were supposed* to.
[All mixed metal AIOs inevitably clog up.]
Msi was offering replacements to Version 2 for some time, but they've probably stopped by now = you're going to have to buy a new cooler. 240mm isn't going to cut it for all core loads.
The pump in radiator models shouldn't be installed in the roof, which you do have correct.

Should the radiator fans be pulling air from inside the case and blowing out, or should I reverse the radiator fans to pull in cool air?

When installed in the front, they should be intake like any other setup. There are very niche/oddball cases where the reverse works well.
While I know you said what direction the fans are facing, posting a picture at a different angle - well, there have been scenarios of others having their fans unintentionally backwards.

 

[Lutfij]

Most likely an first revision. It was purchased back near the end of 2021.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/m...40r-360r-aio-coolers-due-to-sediment-build-up

If I were to redo the build, I'd get a case that accepts a 360mm AIO and pick up a 360mm AIO as well. You can look at the Corsair 3000D and pair that with a Corsair 360mm AIO as well.

 

[Paperdoc]

I agree with all above. From your photo is appears you have ONLY exhaust fans! That is, three at the front through the rad, and one at the rear. There appear to be NO top fans. You need more, and arranged differently.

Change the rad fan arrangement at front so they are INTAKE fans taking outside air through the rad and into the case.

ADD TWO fans as exhausts at the top in the REAR and MIDDLE spots. Do not add a top fan at the very front.

This will use slightly cooler air flowing over the rad and greatly increase the total air flow though the rad and your whole case.

 

[geofelt]

What is your main use for this pc?
I doubt it is AIDA benchmarks.

Gaming will not stress all cores like an artificial benchmark.
"if you don't touch 100c. you are leaving performance on the table"
(from an Intel engineer)

What good cooling does is raise the top performance potential of the cpu.
You may find this article useful:
https://www.tomshardware.com/features/intel-core-13900k-cooling-tested

The comments above are good.
You really want fresh air to go through your radiator for best cpu performance.

How good do you need to be?
A 240 aio is not the strongest of coolers, perhaps not quite up to a good twin tower air cooler.

Yes, you could buy something stronger, but before you do, mount the radiator to take in fresh air and see how you do.
Stronger coolers will deliver diminishing returns in a gaming system.

Here is a video on gaming vs. cooling:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNFgswzTvyc

 

[Calab]

Thanks everyone... I've got some fans on the way and I will spin the fans around on the radiator.

 

[bill001g]

while you are waiting maybe pull the glass side panel off and see how much difference it makes.

The air coming in the side and being pushed out the front should be about the same as pulling it in the front.

 

[Calab]

Well... I pulled the radiator out, blew out any dust, and flipped the fans around. It's now pulling cooler outside air through the radiator into the PC.

While I was in there I pulled the heatsink off the CPU to refresh the thermal paste.

Might just be my bad memory, but the CPU seems to be idling warmer than before. The water lines running to the radiator seem to be warmer than they were before. This is confusing because if the lines are warmer, the CPU should be cooler than before.

This is all with the side panel off the computer.

Temps and throttling don't appear to have changed much in Aida64's stress test.

So, now I think I should be getting some better thermal paste as all that I had was generic white paste.

I'm also thinking that the 240R just isn't cooling the CPU as well as it should. A three fan water cooling system won't fit, so now I'm wondering if there is a decent air cooled solution I could use.

This is what the stress test looks like. You can see the throttling occuring at the bottom.

 

[bill001g]

You will find many highly rated air cooling solution some that are extremely cheap and work well. Pretty much the ones that have similar total radiator size to your 240 water cooler function about the same. They seemed to have figured out how to get heat pipes to work almost as well as actual water.

The main issue is going to be the height and maybe your ram clearance...read all the specs.

Still if you are using overclock on the 12900k, especially if you run unlimited power, it is still going to try to boast to 100c. Only a 360 water cooler will prevent that. If you use more reasonable levels a quality air cooler will keep the cpu in control.

 

[Calab]

So, I received my UpHere D6SEC cooler, three Jazzcooling 120mm RGB fans and Arctic MX-6 compound about an hour ago. I've pulled the MSI 240R AIO out the PC and installed the three fans and D6SEC cooler. There is a great improvement in cooling. Temps idle around 24'C and even under full stress they don't get past 80'C and there is no throttling at all. The machine runs quieter as well.

After all this, I am thinking that the 240R may not have been installed correctly, but the thermal paste was squeezed down, so I'm not sure.

At this point I am happy. I just need to decide what to do with the 240R now.

 

[Calab]

The main issue is going to be the height and maybe your ram clearance...read all the specs.

Still if you are using overclock on the 12900k, especially if you run unlimited power, it is still going to try to boast to 100c. Only a 360 water cooler will prevent that. If you use more reasonable levels a quality air cooler will keep the cpu in control.

Clearance was tight, but it does fit OK.

I'm not overclocking at all, which is why I was concerned about the CPU getting throttled back.

All is well now. Thanks for the help!

 

[Calab]

What is your main use for this pc?
I doubt it is AIDA benchmarks.

How good do you need to be?
A 240 aio is not the strongest of coolers, perhaps not quite up to a good twin tower air cooler.

Main use for this machine? Surfing the web, coding, and a bit of Quake 3... Definitely nothing taxing. There is some heavy lifting occasionally, but not enough to worry about.

I don't know if that 240R is defective, or was installed incorrectly, but something was wrong. With my new cooler I don't get any throttling at all, regardless of how much I stress the CPU.

Thanks for the help!

 

[bill001g]

Water coolers eventually will fail. The water can evaporate thought the tubing. The pumps also don't seem to last a lot of years. Other than when you are overclocking intel cpu or you have some strange case where a AIO will fit but a aircooler will not I can't see why you would buy water coolers.

The newer air coolers seem to keep up with water coolers until you get to larger water coolers like 360 or bigger.

 

[Phaaze88]

At this point I am happy. I just need to decide what to do with the 240R now.

Keep the fans for spares and throw the rest out, or use it as a door stop or paper weight, or something, 'cause it's trash at this point.

 

[Calab]

Photo of the final product. You can't see it, but there is one intake fan in the front of the case. The rear fan and two top fans are exhaust.