[SOLVED] CPU Core temperatures are considerably higher than CPU overall.

[Angolmagyar]

So before I begin, here is my setup (built in 2014, please don't judge, I'm poor):

Asus Z97-K
Intel Core i5 4690k 3.5GHz Quad Core
2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR3 1866MHz
2 x 8 GB Samsung (some generic) DDR3 ????MHz (Currently running at 1600MHz)
Asus GeForce GTX 750 Ti OC 2GB

So my issue is, SpeedFan and HWMonitor both concur that my cores are (at 100% CPU usage) running on average:
Core 0: 76
Core 1: 70
Core 2: 65
Core 3: 65

while SpeedFan, HWMonitor and AISuite 3 all agree my CPU temp is on average 46 °C at full cpu usage.

My question is, since after quite a bit of googling I could only find CPU temp being higher than core temp, aside from the poor thermal paste distribution why are my core temps so high compared to CPU temp?

These temperatures are at my CPU being overclocked to 4.1 GHz at 1.2 Volts. At default BIOS settings the temperatures are lower but the discrepancy remains:

CPU at 36 °C
Core 0: 54
Core 1: 51
Core 2: 48
Core 3: 46

So is there something I should worry about? Is the 4690K just designed this way or are the thermometers measuring either core or cpu faulty?

EDIT: Something I forgot to mention: these temperatures are when the CPU is under load. When the computer is at idle with nothing running, the temperatures for the most part do synch up, so cpu and all cores will then be ROUGHLY the same. Sometimes individual cores drop lower than CPU for a moment, but in general they are only 2 - 5 degrees hotter.

 

[Greatli]

Those programs are notoriously inaccurate. HwInfo should provide more insight.

 

[CompuTronix]

Angolmagyar,

Intel hasn't used an analog thermal sensor for "CPU" temperature since the 1st Generation Core i processors. Your 4th Generation i5-4690K does not have this sensor, nor has there been a CPU socket temperature sensor on Intel motherboards since before the first Core 2 processors in 2006. CPU temperature is sometimes confused with "Package" temperature, which is the "hottest Core".

As Greatli has correctly pointed out, many monitoring utilities commonly mislabel, misreport or "offset" various sensors, which can be highly confusing and misleading, as you have unfortunately now discovered. You're not the first to trip over this terminology stumbling block, nor will you be the last.

"SpeedFan" hasn't been updated for several years, while "Hardware Monitor" and especially "AI Suite" all have known issues, and are often inaccurate and unreliable. It's highly probable that these utilities are monitoring another sensor such as the Platform Control Hub (PCH) or Voltage Regulator Modules (VRMs) and are mislabeling one of these sensors as "CPU".

In contrast, "Hardware Info" and "Core Temp" are both highly trusted and reliable monitoring utilities which receive frequent updates and are known to be very accurate. Core Temp is a simple and basic monitoring utility, whereas Hardware Info (HWiNFO) provides extremely detailed monitoring information. Use the "Sensors Only" option when starting this utility.

In any event, your highest processor temperatures occur at the heat sources, which are the transistor "Junctions" located deep within each "Core". As such, the only relevant temperatures are "Core" temperatures, which is where your attention should be exclusively focused. You can therefore disregard any references to "CPU" temperature in any and all utilities.

You can also disregard Intel's Thermal Specification for "Tcase", which is IHS temperature that's only measured in the factory using "engineering samples". All Intel processors have not just one, but two Thermal Specifications; Tcase and Tjunction. Tcase for your i5-4690K is 72°C, Most users "assume" Tcase is maximum Core temperature which is wrong, as Tcase is NOT Core temperature.

Intel's intended purpose for providing Tcase specifications is primarily for developers of aftermarket cooling solutions. For end users, this means Tcase is irrelevant. The limiting Thermal Specification is "Tjunction" which is "Throttle" temperature. For your i5-4690K it's 100°C. However, Core temperatures above 85°C are NOT recommended, Core temperatures below 80°C are ideal.

We have a Guide that covers this topic, which is also readily found on Google. It's a Sticky located at the top of the CPUs Forum, which is where you posted this Thread. If you just look up there you can't miss it. All the answers you seek and more, are already there. I suggest you read it. Simply click on the link below in my signature.

CT

 

[Angolmagyar]

Angolmagyar,

Intel hasn't used an analog thermal sensor for "CPU" temperature since the 1st Generation Core i processors. Your 4th Generation i5-4690K does not have this sensor, nor has there been a CPU socket temperature sensor on Intel motherboards since before the first Core 2 processors in 2006. CPU temperature is sometimes confused with "Package" temperature, which is the "hottest Core".

As Greatli has correctly pointed out, many monitoring utilities commonly mislabel, misreport or "offset" various sensors, which can be highly confusing and misleading, as you have unfortunately now discovered. You're not the first to trip over this terminology stumbling block, nor will you be the last.

"SpeedFan" hasn't been updated for several years, while "Hardware Monitor" and especially "AI Suite" all have known issues, and are often inaccurate and unreliable. It's highly probable that these utilities are monitoring another sensor such as the Platform Control Hub (PCH) or Voltage Regulator Modules (VRMs) and are mislabeling one of these sensors as "CPU".

In contrast, "Hardware Info" and "Core Temp" are both highly trusted and reliable monitoring utilities which receive frequent updates and are known to be very accurate. Core Temp is a simple and basic monitoring utility, whereas Hardware Info (HWiNFO) provides extremely detailed monitoring information. Use the "Sensors Only" option when starting this utility.

In any event, your highest processor temperatures occur at the heat sources, which are the transistor "Junctions" located deep within each "Core". As such, the only relevant temperatures are "Core" temperatures, which is where your attention should be exclusively focused. You can therefore disregard any references to "CPU" temperature in any and all utilities.

You can also disregard Intel's Thermal Specification for "Tcase", which is IHS temperature that's only measured in the factory using "engineering samples". All Intel processors have not just one, but two Thermal Specifications; Tcase and Tjunction. Tcase for your i5-4690K is 72°C, Most users "assume" Tcase is maximum Core temperature which is wrong, as Tcase is NOT Core temperature.

Intel's intended purpose for providing Tcase specifications is primarily for developers of aftermarket cooling solutions. For end users, this means Tcase is irrelevant. The limiting Thermal Specification is "Tjunction" which is "Throttle" temperature. For your i5-4690K it's 100°C. However, Core temperatures above 85°C are NOT recommended, Core temperatures below 80°C are ideal.

We have a Guide that covers this topic, which is also readily found on Google. It's a Sticky located at the top of the CPUs Forum, which is where you posted this Thread. If you just look up there you can't miss it. All the answers you seek and more, are already there. I suggest you read it. Simply click on the link below in my signature.

CT

Using HWiNFO64 v6.22-4060 the readings for the core temps are the same as the other programs I've used. So the general "CPU" temperature doesn't even exist? Because AI Suite's FanXpert 3 is using that number to decide how fast to spin my fans. Should I use a different fan tuning program that looks at core temperatures instead?

 

[RodroX]

For your i5 cpu anything around 76°C under full load is very good (considering been working since 2014), but the main questions will be: Whats your current cpu cooler ?, When was the last time you perform a full clean of your PC interiors (dust, heair and what not accumulate over time obstructing the air flow, specially on heatsinks and fan, some fans may not even spin if they are too dirty)?, How many fans do you have inside your case?

If your cpu cooler is one of those basic intel coolers, then those temps are fine (I will still try hwinfo64 - sensors only- option).

If your cpu cooler is something better like a or even something better like a gammaxx 400 / hyper 212, then you may need to clean and reapply the thermal paste and also clean the dust and hair, and whatever of all the interiors of your PC (specially heatsinks and fans).

Cheers

 

[Angolmagyar]

For your i5 cpu anything around 76°C under full load is very good (considering been working since 2014), but the main questions will be: Whats your current cpu cooler ?, When was the last time you perform a full clean of your PC interiors (dust, heair and what not accumulate over time obstructing the air flow, specially on heatsinks and fan, some fans may not even spin if they are too dirty)?, How many fans do you have inside your case?

If your cpu cooler is one of those basic intel coolers, then those temps are fine (I will still try hwinfo64 - sensors only- option).

If your cpu cooler is something better like a or even something better like a gammaxx 400 / hyper 212, then you may need to clean and reapply the thermal paste and also clean the dust and hair, and whatever of all the interiors of your PC (specially heatsinks and fans).

Cheers

Just bought a new case recently, CiT Blaze, got 6x 120mm fans inside the case, got a hyper 212 evo with a fan on each side (single directional flow of air, out the back of the case). I usually do a full case and part clean every few months, but since I got a whole new case recently, it is even cleaner than before. Thermal paste is changed every 4 to 6 months.

 

[CompuTronix]

Using HWiNFO64 v6.22-4060 the readings for the core temps are the same as the other programs I've used.

In the event there are any differences, defer to HWiNFO64 as being the utility which is correct.

So the general "CPU" temperature doesn't even exist?

That's correct. Read on ...

Because AI Suite's FanXpert 3 is using that number to decide how fast to spin my fans. Should I use a different fan tuning program that looks at core temperatures instead?

Asus doesn't explain to you that "CPU" temperature in AI Suite is actually the "hottest Core" which is a contradiction in terms and is one of the many reasons why this topic gets so confusing. If AI Suite works satisfactorily for you, then continue using it, but you may instead be able to use BIOS to control fans speeds. Additionally, keep in mind that "CPU" temperature in BIOS is also the "hottest Core".

The following is straight out of the Intel Temperature Guide:

Section 3 - CPU Temperature​

"Also called "Tcase" (Temperature Case), this is a factory only temperature measured on the external surface of the IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader) using engineering samples. For lab testing only, a groove is cut into the surface of the IHS where a "thermocouple" sensor is embedded at the center. The processor is installed, the stock cooler is seated, the thermocouple is connected to monitoring devices, and the temperature is then tested under carefully controlled conditions.

Figure 3-1​

Retail processors do not have a thermocouple sensor, so one of two different methods are used to display “CPU” temperature in BIOS and in monitoring utilities ...

... Present Method: Core i Socket 115x and Extreme / X-Series Socket 20xx processors do not have an Analog Thermal Diode, but instead "substitute" the "hottest Core" for "CPU" temperature, which is a contradiction in terms that users may find confusing. Nonetheless, this is the temperature shown in BIOS, and on some recent motherboards is shown on the two digit "debug" display. The monitoring utility provided by the motherboard manufacturer on your Driver DVD displays “CPU” temperature in Windows, but is actually the "hottest Core" ...

... Note: The term “CPU” temperature is commonly misused as a general term for any processor temperatures. Unfortunately, this blurs the distinctions between CPU temperature and Core temperature ... "

Since your Core i 4th Generation i5-4690K is a Socket 1150 processor, the "Present Method:" described above applies to your CPU.

As I mentioned in my 1st post, we have a Guide that covers this topic. It's a "Sticky" located at the top of the CPUs Forum where you posted your Thread. We highly recommend that our Members check the Stickies, as they frequently contain the information you need. This can save you time searching for answers, or waiting for others to reply with information which may be somewhat less than "well informed".

If you'd like to get up to speed on this topic, then do yourself a favor and read our Sticky: Intel Temperature Guide.

CT

 

[Angolmagyar]

In the event there are any differences, defer to HWiNFO64 as being the utility which is correct.

That's correct. Read on ...


Asus doesn't explain to you that "CPU" temperature in AI Suite is actually the "hottest Core" which is a contradiction in terms and is one of the many reasons why this topic gets so confusing. If AI Suite works satisfactorily for you, then continue using it, but you may instead be able to use BIOS to control fans speeds. Additionally, keep in mind that "CPU" temperature in BIOS is also the "hottest Core".

The following is straight out of the Intel Temperature Guide:

Section 3 - CPU Temperature​

"Also called "Tcase" (Temperature Case), this is a factory only temperature measured on the external surface of the IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader) using engineering samples. For lab testing only, a groove is cut into the surface of the IHS where a "thermocouple" sensor is embedded at the center. The processor is installed, the stock cooler is seated, the thermocouple is connected to monitoring devices, and the temperature is then tested under carefully controlled conditions.

Figure 3-1​

Retail processors do not have a thermocouple sensor, so one of two different methods are used to display “CPU” temperature in BIOS and in monitoring utilities ...

... Present Method: Core i Socket 115x and Extreme / X-Series Socket 20xx processors do not have an Analog Thermal Diode, but instead "substitute" the "hottest Core" for "CPU" temperature, which is a contradiction in terms that users may find confusing. Nonetheless, this is the temperature shown in BIOS, and on some recent motherboards is shown on the two digit "debug" display. The monitoring utility provided by the motherboard manufacturer on your Driver DVD displays “CPU” temperature in Windows, but is actually the "hottest Core" ...

... Note: The term “CPU” temperature is commonly misused as a general term for any processor temperatures. Unfortunately, this blurs the distinctions between CPU temperature and Core temperature ... "

Since your Core i 4th Generation i5-4690K is a Socket 1150 processor, the "Present Method:" described above applies to your CPU.

As I mentioned in my 1st post, we have a Guide that covers this topic. It's a "Sticky" located at the top of the CPUs Forum where you posted your Thread. We highly recommend that our Members check the Stickies, as they frequently contain the information you need. This can save you time searching for answers, or waiting for others to reply with information which may be somewhat less than "well informed".

If you'd like to get up to speed on this topic, then do yourself a favor and read our Sticky: Intel Temperature Guide.

CT

And so once again I am confused. If Ai Suite AND bios displays the hottest core, when HWiNFO states my cares are all above temperature X, why is AiSuite and Bios saying my cpu is actually at just over half of X? So for example if I am playing a game my 4 cores are at 55 - 62 degrees (different temps on all 4 cores between these values. NOTE: I've reverted to stock cpu speed) but AI Suite says my CPU is at 36 degrees. And if I understand what you said correctly, is that it should report the hottest core (which would be fine with me, I wouldn't want any of my cores to exceed the temperatures I've set the cooling curve to) then it is reporting it incorrectly. That or HWiNFO is incorrect.

I'm sorry for the dumb questions, I am relatively inexperienced in hardware I appreciate the information, though I enjoy learning about this. And I have looked at that intel temperature guide, but I have failed to find answers to my questions, which is why I'm pestering the community.

 

[CompuTronix]

And so once again I am confused. If Ai Suite AND bios displays the hottest core, when HWiNFO states my cores are all above temperature X, why is AiSuite and Bios saying my cpu is actually at just over half of X? ...

It's completely understandable to be confused, as processor temperatures can be a very confusing topic.

You can not compare CPU temperature (hottest Core) in BIOS with Core temperatures in Windows at idle or any workload, so in terms of temperature, you need to disassociate BIOS from Windows.

... 4 cores are at 55 - 62 degrees (different temps on all 4 cores) ... AI Suite says my CPU is at 36 degrees ... hottest core ... then it is reporting it incorrectly. That or HWiNFO is incorrect.

It's normal for individual Cores temperatures to differ from one another by up to 10°C. Also, as I mentioned in my 1st post, many monitoring utilities commonly mislabel, misreport or "offset" various sensors, which can be highly confusing and misleading, "AI Suite" is not exactly famous for being correct or accurate. Although AI Suited says "CPU", it could be monitoring another sensor such as the Platform Control Hub (PCH) or Voltage Regulator Modules (VRMs) and is simply mislabeling one of these sensors as "CPU".

Keep in mind that PCH and VRM temperatures are normally lower than Core temperatures, but they both increase and decrease as CPU workloads and power demands change. If your fan curves are functioning to your satisfaction, then disregard the label "CPU' temperature. Once again, it's Core temperatures which are the most critical processor temperatures, so when in doubt, always defer to "Hardware Info" as being correct.

... I enjoy learning about this. And I have looked at that intel temperature guide, but I have failed to find answers to my questions ...

I can assure you that the answers are there. But due to the complexity of the topic (thanks to Intel's poorly written thermal specifications), that guide is not a document that users can casually "look" at, "skim" over or "glance" at and expect to "get it". There's a lot of material to digest, so unless you're already familiar with the topic and accustomed to observing CPU thermal behaviors, most users need to focus on the content and read it slowly and very carefully. If you don't get it the first time, then go over it again. It'll all become clear to you in one of those "ahhh haaa!!!" moments.

CT