[SOLVED] Does two same processor having different base clock will produce different heat at same load????

[Nikhilniks]

Dell Inspiron 3501 have processor 1135g7 with turbo 4.2Ghz and base clock 2.4Ghz
Dell Inspiron 5502 have processor 1135g7 with turbo 4.2Ghz and base clock 1.4Ghz
Will reduction in base clock (of laptop Dell inspiron 5502) will produce less heat if i assign same amount of work to both????????

 

[mdd1963]

The lower base-clock accompanies a lower power/TDP budget, so, boost duration will be less even under a workload; I'd expect clock speeds to be a tad higher than base clock, but, generally one would expect the 5502 to run cooler. (You might get the same effects with some tweaking of settings for the other model by manually lowering all-core turbo clock speeds, as is easy to do with Intel's XTU, if prices are not too much more for higher clock speed model.)

 

[Nikhilniks]

But in case when a task is assigned (suppose of 3ghz) Dell inspiron 5502 @base 1.4 will increase its frequency beyond its base clock bcoz it has turbo. And after task is over it will came down to lowest frequency.
Now in case of Dell 3501@base 2.4Ghz when task is completed and there is no task its clock speed will be lower ( and it will definitely lower than base clock speed).
So, even dell inspiron 3501 base@2.4ghz is lowering its clock to lowest when there is less/no load. So how Dell 5502 is cooler than Dell 3501???
Is it bcoz turbo duration will be less????And hence does it mean there will be delay in Dell 5502 base @1.4 to complete the task as compared to Dell 3501 @2.4Ghz?????

Also , Dell Inspron 3501 base@2.4Ghz has lower price than Dell Inspiron 5502 base@1.4

 

[geofelt]

Something does not compute.
The same 1135g7 processor should have the same specs and perform identically.
Where are you getting the base and turbo clocks?
Perhaps there is mistake in the specs description.

 

[Nikhilniks]

Something does not compute.
The same 1135g7 processor should have the same specs and perform identically.
Where are you getting the base and turbo clocks?
Perhaps there is mistake in the specs description.

Specs are true. I have inpiron 3501 with base 2.4Ghz and my friend have 5402 having base 1.4Ghz. Both having 1135g7 processor. You can watch these benchmark result which states specs too (with base clock).
dell 5502 @base @1.4
dell 3501 @base @2.4

Turbo values in different benchmark are different due to dell power manager. Having option cool mode, ultra performance mode etc.

 

[Karadjgne]

CPU Specifications

# of Cores4
# of Threads8
Max Turbo Frequency 4.20 GHz
Cache8 MB Intel® Smart Cache
Bus Speed4 GT/s
Configurable TDP-up Frequency 2.40 GHz
Configurable TDP-up 28 W
Configurable TDP-down Frequency 900 MHz
Configurable TDP-down 12 W

One laptop has the cpu configured as stock. One laptop has the same cpu configured TDP lower.
Same cpu. Configured by Dell bios firmware, most likely due to heat and/or cooling solutions.

The laptops will run roughly the same temp range under a full load, the difference being the effectiveness of the cooling on the faster configured cpu being better able to absorb the full 28w, whereas the slower configured cpu has lesser cooling ability, so is most likely stopped short at @ 22-24w TDP instead.

 

[Nikhilniks]

CPU Specifications

# of Cores4
# of Threads8
Max Turbo Frequency 4.20 GHz
Cache8 MB Intel® Smart Cache
Bus Speed4 GT/s
Configurable TDP-up Frequency 2.40 GHz
Configurable TDP-up 28 W
Configurable TDP-down Frequency 900 MHz
Configurable TDP-down 12 W

One laptop has the cpu configured as stock. One laptop has the same cpu configured TDP lower.
Same cpu. Configured by Dell bios firmware, most likely due to heat and/or cooling solutions.

The laptops will run roughly the same temp range under a full load, the difference being the effectiveness of the cooling on the faster configured cpu being better able to absorb the full 28w, whereas the slower configured cpu has lesser cooling ability, so is most likely stopped short at @ 22-24w TDP instead.

Both laptop performance is not upto the mark (as what 1135g7 @28watt is made for). But still if we compare both these laptop then
For Dell 3501 PL1 is 22watt and PL2 is 51watt.
For Dell 5502 PL1 is 15watt and PL2 is 51watt.

I have stressed cpu in inspiron 3501 for longer duration and the power package stays around 22 with temps around 95-96C without throttling 😁😁.

But what my ques is suppose both laptop have same cooling fan and same PL1 and PL2 value and same turbo frequency. But if one laptop has lower base clock. Then will lower base clock willl produce less heat for same task????

Also can you tell me why Hwinfo shows my TDP is 28watt and cTDP is 15watt???? This is the image:
hwinfo specs

 

[Karadjgne]

There's 3 power settings for any cpu. Idle, base, turbo. Some have turbo disabled electrically because the silicon won't hane the higher turbo speed.

Regardless of that, PL2 is turbo. And temporary, lasting only 26 seconds. After that, speeds drop to PL1. That's how it works.

Assuming the same cooling solution, 22w PL1 is hotter than 15w PL1, regardless of base speed. Because base speed is meaningless unless one of the rare versions where turbo is disabled. Or if the user disables turbo.

Disable turbo to allow a cpu to run at base speed and throw PL1 and PL2 out the window, those are turbo wattage. After which even TDP is moot because that's a thermal design, not an electrical power usage.

So if running simply at base speeds, the cpus themselves will determine the amount of heat totally dependent on actual power usage according to load. A cpu at 2.4GHz and 1.3v is going to run cooler than a cpu at 2.2GHz and 1.4v vcore.

It's not in the numbers or fact sheets or whatever theory about base speed use you care to drag up, it's simply whatever the cpu uses according to the bios settings.

Base speeds are a useless number when the cpu uses turbo. Apples and Oranges.

TDP is Thermal Design Power. It's supposed to represent the size of the cooling solution for a range of cpus. I7-3770K = 77w. I5-3570k = 77w.
Yet the i7 only actually electrically uses about 70w and the i5 uses about 63w, as tested by Intel, using an average thermal number taken from a specific series of apps.

Those numbers come from running the cpu at base speeds only, on the Intel test bench using Intels bios. Not gigabytes or msi or asus. Those are vendors, whose bios settings can and do change power limits and consequently, power usage and heat. Take for granted Dell does that too, obviously as shown by 2 identical cpus with different power limits and different clocks. That includes messing with Tau, which is PL2 duration.

Apples and oranges, you can't measure one against the other, and it's pointless discussing base speeds heat and turbo limit wattage in the same sentence. Doesn't apply like that.

 

[Nikhilniks]

Because base speed is meaningless unless one of the rare versions where turbo is disabled. Or if the user disables turbo.

Thank you. Your whole answer is superb. That given a clear picture. I got it. Base clock is meaningless if there is turbo option there.

Assuming the same cooling solution, 22w PL1 is hotter than 15w PL1, regardless of base speed

True. But when the load is longer than its Tau limit of 26sec.

A cpu at 2.4GHz and 1.3v is going to run cooler than a cpu at 2.2GHz and 1.4v vcore.

A very good example you have given.

I7-3770K = 77w. I5-3570k = 77w.
Yet the i7 only actually electrically uses about 70w and the i5 uses about 63w, as tested by Intel, using an average thermal number taken from a specific series of apps.

Superb example, this cleared my every single doubt.

Apples and oranges, you can't measure one against the other, and it's pointless discussing base speeds heat and turbo limit wattage in the same sentence. Doesn't apply like that.

I think PL1 value and Tau is responsible for dell 5502 and dell 3501 in higher/lower heat generation regardless of whatever base clock it is. But again as you said Apples and oranges, you can't measure one against the other, and it's pointless discussing base speeds heat and turbo limit wattage in the same sentence.
Thank You