Dothan@2.6Ghz(Air) matches all else! 2.8Ghz rocks!!!!

[Mephistopheles]

The inquirer just posted another <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19495" target="_new">article</A> on Pentium M and how spectacular a processor it is...

 

[trooper11]

this again really makes me wonder if the people at intle have lost thier marbles or something.

dothan is like the second coming, yet it seems intel falls over itself trying to supress it. i dont buy this notion of it eating into p4 sales. if intel pushed out dothans wiht thier huge fab capacity, they could saturate the market rather quickly, to heck with p4s frankly, they would start really raking in the cash if it turns out these are true performance juggernaughts.

a good course of action would be have two lines sort of like they have now, pm's take the mainstream market, celerons take budget, and p4's take high end. i say keep p4's becuase dothan is not invensible and does lack in the workstation area of performance, so p4's could be kept there, just take out the p4ee's.

i dont think this is all politics, i have a feeling intel just doesnt want to embrace dothan yet becuase its not an 'all around' exceptional performer. p4s can run in any segment with minor tweaking, a dothan would take more then tweaking to improve its performance in those high end areas.

 

[wschuerm]

just bought A64 last week this review makes me wish i hadn't, also because of the [-peep-] I'm having with the MSI mobo (no network, firewire, Wifi, floppy, can be recognised the board is useless i'm going back to the store sith it tomorrow)

MSI K8N NEO2 Platinum
AMD A64 3500+ @ 10x240
Corsair TwinX 2x512 mb PC4000 v3.3
120 maxtor SATA
Sapphire Radeon 9800pro 128mb
Watercooled by Innovatek

 

[trooper11]

why does it make you wish you hadnt gotten an ahtlon 64? did you get a 90nm version? if so, ive seen overclock on air of 2.7-2.8 ghz if you are talking about overclocking.

 

[endyen]

So, have you seen the bit at theregister about centrino becoming a home pc platform? Looks like you're getting your wish.

 

[raretech]

I agree, they might very well be planning on 64bit. I was only bringing up an objection.

I mean honestly, if all these rumors about Dothan end up being true, dual core that can whip a A64, and dothan cores in 2 and 4 ways, I could easily see myself switching.

I just want to see more testing and reviews before I become a believer. Hell, I want to see actual products ship, actualy targeting of the desktop and SMP workstations. The numbers I see tell me this would work, but will Intel go that route? That's the big question.

Until then, it's all conjecture. It is conjecture that I want to be true though, sincerely. If all of these things turn out to be accurate, we may be knee deep in another round of processor wars, which is just the way I like it.

I hope it is true. I was planning on putting together a system for some overclocking fun, but I'm holding off until the end of January now to see what Intel brings to the table. I am definetly open to this.

<i>Nemo me impune lacesset</i>

 

[endyen]

Oh ye of little faith
<A HREF="http://www.theregister.com/2004/11/05/intel_east_fork/" target="_new">http://www.theregister.com/2004/11/05/intel_east_fork/</A>

 

[raretech]

:lol: Forgive me for my lack of faith. You should have gone with "I find your lack of faith, disturbing". It didn't say anything about 64bit and really, Intel has broken a lot of promises lately, so there. :tongue:

I prefer to wait and see. I was like this with the claims about Opterons before they shipped. The FP performance also bothers me, but we'll see how that goes. And linux compatibility, that will be key for me.

I'm willing to wait for my OC system based on these claims, but I'm not about to start proclaiming the good news of Dothan just yet. A lot of things need to happen first before it will be a real competitor to A64. If January comes and no 64bit dothan, I'll be going A64 for my OC system. I have better things to do than wait for a large company to turn vapor ware into real wares. :lol:
<i>Nemo me impune lacesset</i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by raretech on 11/06/04 01:49 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[apache_lives]

Yep - thanks to Intel's 6300ESB South Bridge.

Full Specifications:
http://www.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_product_spec_details_r_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=3350&CATEGORY_TYPE=MB&SITE=US

 

[Mephistopheles]

Well, according to the spec benchmarks, you could do the scaling:

2000Mhz/400Mhz FSB Dothan: 1528/1087
2133Mhz/533Mhz FSB Dothan: 1685/1304

If scaling goes linearly, we could estimate higher-clocked version to go at about these scores:

2266Mhz/667Mhz FSB Dothan: 1842/1521
2400Mhz/800Mhz FSB Dothan: 2000/1738
2533Mhz/933Mhz FSB Dothan: 2156/1955
2667Mhz/1066Mhz FSB Dothan: 2313/2172

I wonder just how wrong these numbers are?... Sure, we'd have to be overclockers to know... But if they're even remotely correct, dothan is truly good. Just imagine it sitting on LGA775, it would eat <i>any</i> P4 for breakfast. It's pretty obvious at this point that Intel could ditch prescott altogether for dothan in desktops at any time and we'll (well, at least <i>I</i> would) love them for it.

For comparison: an Athlon 64 FX-53 at 2.4GHz scores 1623/1595 and a P4EE at 3.4GHz hits 1667/1578.

Surely enough, complete speculation, but the projected scores fit nicely with dothan's exceptional performance when OCed like shown by DFI and x64-secret.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 11/06/04 02:29 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[raretech]

It's pretty obvious at this point that Intel could ditch prescott altogether for dothan in desktops at any time and we'll (well, at least I would) love them for it.

Only someone who wants to see processor speeds stagnate wouldn't want this. I'm reserved right now, because it remains speculation, but I really really hope this plays out the way it seems like it could. The AMD fanboys be damned. :lol:

I hope Intel moves on this and more importantly, I hope it's as doable as everyone seems to think it is.

<i>Nemo me impune lacesset</i>

 

[Mephistopheles]

Me too.

If dothan got the 1066Mhz FSB from LGA775 and got to ~2.5+Ghz, Intel would easily be in the game again.

Plus, with the reallocation of resources they're into, they could very well make smithfield a 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6Ghz dual-dothan 90nm (not 65nm like yonah) processor and still end up with better thermals than <i>single-core</i> A64s!

 

[wschuerm]

Have you seen the benches??? And no unfortuantely I couldn't get the 90nm. I did however got the mobo switched and now everything is ok (no more crashes :-/ I can't seem to get past 2.55 ghz and 2.5 ghz is at least stable (and i'm using watercooling)(this is at 1.6V haven't gone higher because I don't know what the cpu can take)

With water on a dothan I could have gotten much better performance for the same price I think.....


MSI K8N NEO2 Platinum
AMD A64 3500+ @ 10x250
Corsair TwinX 2x512 mb PC4000 v3.3
120 maxtor SATA
Sapphire Radeon 9800pro 128mb
Watercooled by Innovatek

 

[trooper11]

you do realive dothans cost ALOT more then ahtlon 64's

for example a 2ghz dothan is about $442 on pricewatch in a retail box, while an ahtlon 64 3500+ is $267 retail. so even if you then bought a high end water kit youd be under the price just for the dothan.

now dont get me wrong, i agree dothans are the future for intel and i really really hope they push them on desktops in the proper form, cuase i would have many uses for it and it performs on par or evne ebtter then ahtlon 64s with elss heat. i know will want one in my next htpc. a few things need to happen first though. the core will have to be retuned at some point to make up for some of its shortcomings performance wise, it will also need to pick up things like 64bit and a faster bus speed. what i would love to see is dothan paired with ddr3, but that is unlikely for a while. i also want dotahn to come to dekstop to force amd to push itself as well. there hasnt been much reason for them to make mroe progress, they need a good kick in the pants lol. dothan is intel's ace right now, and im sure amd will be kicking in high gear to answer when it comes to desktop. i just think intel is missing a chance to push back so to speak.

 

[endyen]

Do you think east fork will be strictly a multimedia appliance?
I actually though you would go through the roof when you read the link about east fork.

 

[wschuerm]

Sorry I talk about prices I have to pay to get those things. You don't need a 2 ghz dothan to overclock you know. My 3500+ cost mee 299€ that is 382.72 US$ and that the cheapest in belgium at the moement. 64 bit is not a shortcoming or an advantage at the moenet it's a brand that doesn't do anything else (at least for desktop computing) you and i both know 64 bit will only be an isseu when there is a 64 bit winXP that is faster than win XP 32 bit .

MSI K8N NEO2 Platinum
AMD A64 3500+ @ 10x250
Corsair TwinX 2x512 mb PC4000 v3.3
120 maxtor SATA
Sapphire Radeon 9800pro 128mb
Watercooled by Innovatek

 

[trooper11]

actually it is an issue for me, since i use beta 64bit apps or full released linux 64bit systems, so yes 64 bit is important to me, but i agree its not for everyone.

but i also think it would look like a step back for intel to intor dothan on desktop wihtout 64bit extnesions, since they arleady started doing that on prescotts. even if its ntoa useful feature for all, taking it back with dothan would not look good from a market stand point, and intel is very mindful of such things.

oh and im sorry, but i talk about pricing of what i can get, so i guess we are even. oh and also, you dont need a 3500+ to overclock either, a 3000+ will do just as much good, so maybe you should check how its price compares to a dothan.

 

[wschuerm]

Your right, I was only thinking about "dumb consumer like me applications" for instance no 64 bit games and all or 64 bit office. A week after I bought my cpu (this week) the 3200+ s939 became available for 245€ (not very cheap either though probably a better choice for overclocking. For now I'm very fairly to verry happy with my 3500+ I can't seem to get past 2530mhz with vcore of 1.6v and since I don't know if 1.7vcore is even remotely 'safe' I only just tried it. btw 2.6 ghz is doable on 1.7vcore on my cpu and the sisoft benches beat the THG benches of the FX 55 so performance wise my system is ok I guess.

The latest rumor I heard was a dual core mobile based with 64but extensions for Intel. So I think they will do the 64 bit part. Now all they have to to is thriw in a good on chip memory controller and Intel is back in business.

MSI K8N NEO2 Platinum
AMD A64 3500+ @ 10x250
Corsair TwinX 2x512 mb PC4000 v3.3
120 maxtor SATA
Sapphire Radeon 9800pro 128mb
Watercooled by Innovatek

 

[raretech]

dothans have more power clock per clock

Okay, I've taken the time today to thoroughly go through this article. I didn't do it before, largely because the french to english translation is painful to read. I should have done this before, but from what I see, we do not see a clear "clock for clock" advantage for Dothan.

The highest clocked A64 tested in these benchmarks is 2.4ghz. The highest clocked Dothan in these tests is 2.55 ghz. The A64 is not overclocked, the Dothan is. Clarifying this restored perspective for me, because this isn't showing Dothan owning A64 at all. What it is showing, is that dothan is somewhat on par with A64 clock for clock.

Consider these numbers for each benchmark given, the * indicates the winning number. Anyone feel free to correct it, I was juggling watching a baby while going through this review and taking notes, so I may have made a mistake or two.

Dothan 2.55(oc) A64-4000 2.4(non-oc)
Sandra 2004 CPU:
11313* ----- 11026
Sandra 2004 MultiMedia:
27452* ----- 24646
SuperPI 1M
30* ----- 35
ScienceMark Primordia
383 ----- 344*
3dMark2003 CPU
654 ----- 1159*
PCMark2004
5162* ----- 4910
Povray
276.45 ----- 257.08*
Kribibench Jetshadow Realistic
9.04* ----- 7.57
Mpg to DivX5
73.29* ----- 72.37
RAR Compression
357* ----- 318
3dmark 2003
12732 ----- 12798*
Doom 3 timedemo demo1 640x480 LQ
86.7 ----- 87.8*
FarCry Regulator 640x480 LQ
172.8 ----- 185.8*
FarCry Regulator 1600x1200 HQ
65.4* ----- 62.5
UT2003 1024x768
358 ----- 362*
UT2004 640x480 HP
236.74 ----- 240.16*
UT2004 1600x1200 HQ
176.54 ----- 185.08*
Commanche 4
83.34* ----- 81.1
Aquamark3 CPU
11249 ----- 11437*

So we need to keep perspective here, especially people who suddenly think they made a mistake going A64. If you aren't worried about power consumption and you want high performance, you made the right choice. And remember that in these benches, the lower clocked 2.4 A64 won just over half of them, and the A64 was not overclocked at all, whereas the Dothans were substantially overclocked.

I'm not trying to diss dothan, the lower power consumption for a chip with that performance speaks volumes of what an excellent design it is, but as of now, this is far from ownage, this is far from dominating, from beating all else. I think the benchmarks speak for themselves, that clock for clock, at best they are on par clock for clock, though it really looks Dothan is a little slower clock for clock. As of now that is.

<i>Nemo me impune lacesset</i>

 

[wschuerm]

Lol. Your right the speeds aren't the same... The fact that the dothan is overclocked doesn't really matter though does it?? What it should be overclocked tot to make a good comparison is 2.4ghz. What I look at however is overall overclockability and performanc on highest overclock. Considering the dothan clocks at 2.8 on air and my 3500+ for instance gets to 2.6 (barely) (or the fx 55 in the tests) we see another picture. The dothan wins and thats what counts. Now I haven't seen any FX 55's being overclocked so I don't know where they can get but isn't one of the points of overclocking (apart from being fun to mess around with you hardware) to get the most performance for the least amount of money. I don't know prices exactly but I'm sure that 4000+ is pretty expensive. And even if they were on par clock for clock 1:1 perfectly, wouldn't I have been better off with 2.8ghz in stead of 2.5-2.6. On major problem to me is the fact that is is a mobile thingy brought to desktop, no dual channe etc...

MSI K8N NEO2 Platinum
AMD A64 3500+ @ 10x250
Corsair TwinX 2x512 mb PC4000 v3.3
120 maxtor SATA
Sapphire Radeon 9800pro 128mb
Watercooled by Innovatek

 

[dobster99]

Look at the whole picture.

While the A64 was not overclock, the dothans has a slow FSB and memory that dictated by its notebook design restrictions. The fact is a notebook gimped dothan performs well against the A64 and the P4. However, people are not drooling over a desktop 2.5 GHz dothan with 400MHz FSB with 333DDR memory, but a 2.5 dothan with 800MHz FSB and 400DDR.

 

[Spitfire_x86]

I'm not trying to diss dothan, the lower power consumption for a chip with that performance speaks volumes of what an excellent design it is, but as of now, this is far from ownage, this is far from dominating, from beating all else. I think the benchmarks speak for themselves, that clock for clock, at best they are on par clock for clock, though it really looks Dothan is a little slower clock for clock. As of now that is.

Amen!

------------
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[Mephistopheles]

Exactly. The most recent benchmark numbers indicate quite strongly that the FSB, for instance, is hampering performance. While a dothan 2Ghz scores 1500/1000 in spec, the 2.13Ghz (6.7% increase in clock) gets a whole 1650/1300 score or so. That's a 10% increase in spec_int and a staggering 30% or so increase in spec_fp.

Now this is something to drool about. If you increased the dothan 2.0Ghz by an average of 15-20% in performance because of dual-channel DDR2-533 and 533Mhz FSB, just imagine what it could to if paired with an 800Mhz FSB or 1066Mhz!!! I mean, the numbers indicate strongly that the PM is being bandwidth-starved by the 400Mhz FSB and DDR333!!! And it can do so much better... And it could do dual-core seamlessly in regards to thermals... and still clock high......

How could we not be drooling?

Of course the damned thing isn't superior clock-for-clock now! But once given 800Mhz FSB, can we be sure it won't?... I suspect it will. Plus, current dothan chips can apparently clock at least as high as A64s!! And with less power consumption!!!

 

[trooper11]

we might not be drooling becuase we are still waiitng for real proof. i want desktop dothan chips, i want to see what tis really made of and im tired of speculating lol. wake up intel! 😛

 

[trooper11]

ok now again, i odnt knwo why your leaving out info.

you must have missed the athlon 64 3500+ @90nm that are hitting 2.8ghz on air. but i can forgive that, they arent nearly as higly publicized here as the dothan's ''greatness''. so if your talking top overclock speed, they seem about equal. but we still dont know what temps or power draw the dothans use at 2.8.... has anyone seen this? it could be equal to the athlon 64 or lots less, we just dont know.

also, top overclocks on fx 55's are 3ghz+ on air. now all this info i gathers from reading on a daily basis at the big overclocking forums and tracking the progress of projects.

agian im all for dothans, i want them on desktops so bad ><, on the other hand, i dont want to see some kind of giddy outburst and pre-emptive crowning of it as the second coming here lol.

i want to see what they are relaly made of, they are the best chance intel has to take things back if it can perform, and if intel would make an effort.