Dothan@2.6Ghz(Air) matches all else! 2.8Ghz rocks!!!!

[Mephistopheles]

<i>Full update on thread:

x86-secret has published <A HREF="http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=fr_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.x86-secret.com%2f%3foption%3dnewsd%26nid%3d808" target="_new">extensive benchmarks</A> for a 2.55Ghz Dothan. If their results are to be believed, it is quite simply astonishing! The 2.55Ghz Dothan is sometimes even faster than an A64 4000+, and definitely faster than P4 solutions. If taken to 2.8Ghz, dothan makes all current other processors look bad! </i>

Also, AOpen seems to be so proud as to put the i855-based <A HREF="http://global.aopen.com.tw/products/mb/" target="_new">motherboard</A> right in the middle of their products main page. A quick look at the <A HREF="http://global.aopen.com.tw/products/mb/i855GMEm-LFS.htm" target="_new">specs</A> for that motherboard shows that it's quite underpowered in terms of memory - it still uses DDR333 and only AGP 4x slot, not 8x... Imagine if Dothan were to sit on a more heavy-duty motherboard instead of this cute tiny mobo.

Also, too bad we don't quite know how much wattage a 2.6 needs (and therefore, how much heat it generates). All we know is that a 2.1Ghz dothan puts out 21W. If a 2.6Ghz didn't put out much more than that... well, you all know what I'm going to say. It's fairly obvious that Toledo will initially clock at less than 2.6Ghz.

In any case, it is fairly obvious that Intel is holding the gun on dothan. I'm thinking that the only reason for that is that dothan could become stronger than P4s! I mean, a 2.6Ghz dothan on air with dual channel memory and enhanced FSB (533, 800, whatever) would have performance enough to make a serious stand against 3.2, 3.4 and maybe even 3.6Ghz prescotts!

Also, the whole thing suggests that yonah might manage clock speeds in excess of 3Ghz with air cooling. (taped out several weeks ago, ready to roll in 2005... but no, not for desktops... :frown: ) Heck, current dothans can do 2.6Ghz on air and yonah <b>is 65nm-based</b>, which should improve clock speeds further! As far as we know, it's not completely impossible that smithfield is actually yonah-based and clocks at 2.8, 3.0 and 3.2Ghz... If that were the case, I'd gladly have them delay smithfield for another 3 months to the very late 2005 than get an impossible netburst-dual-core processor.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 11/02/04 11:44 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[wschuerm]

Intels plan is rumoured to be dual core desktop chips on the basis of mobile cpu's, so this means dothan or a modified version of it. I've seen tests with a 2,4 ghz dothan and it kicked both intel and AMD A64 ass. Maybe not in all benches but as we can similarly see in Athlons dothans have more power clock per clock some programs just still like raw speed but imo a dual core dothan at 3ghz or so will definetly put intel back on track.

MSI K8N NEO2 Platinum
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Corsair TwinX 2x512 mb PC4000 v3.3
120 maxtor SATA
Sapphire Radeon 9800pro 128mb
Watercooled by Innovatek

 

[trooper11]

so it stil puzzels me why intel would say ont heir roadmap that dothan would only reach 2.26 ghz by the end of next year? What is holding them back form releasing up to 2.6ghz for mobiles? How would htat cut into p4 sales at all? If they keep it confined to mobile, then it wont cannibalize thier p4 market. That would give them time to ramp up dothan production for dual core on desktop or to phase out the p4 all together and let dothan take over.

They seem to be alot mroe conservative as of late with products. id like to knwo more info about that overclock though. namely, performance, heat, and wattage. hopefully someone else tries it out. a 2.6 dothan against a 2.6 winchester lol. i wonder though if dothans have a point where scaling up cuases a sudden jump in heat and watts, it is possible there is a wall to be hit, maybe thats something intel is being cautious about.

 

[Mephistopheles]

It might be because, like I said, a sudden dothan ramp in clock speed would make the processor faster, better, quieter and cooler than P4s, and Intel wouldn't want to do that!

Oh, and agreed on the need for extra information. In particular, knowing the wattage of a 2.6Ghz dothan would be great.

 

[trooper11]

but how would that undercut p4 sales if they keep dothan only on mobiles? if they are wanting to bring dothan to the desktop, then they shouldnt care if it is faster then the p4. if they arent thinking of bringing it to the desktop anytime soon, then confining it to mobiles, wiht deficient memory subsystems, then they dont have to worry aobut loosing p4 sales, since intel obviously wants dotahn to dominate mobiles

 

[endyen]

Face it, dothan on laptops is a goldmine for Intel. They wont do anything that might hurt thier slow and total rape of that market.

 

[El_Jefe_77]

dothan SHOULD be the home processor, I think thats fairly obvious. instead we now have 1000 EE processors running a useless 1000+fsb to memory. Yay.

What about watercooled? Personally, I do not take any system over 40 true decibels of sound (not those rated systems where it always is 10 decibels more in reality). I imagine 3.0 could be gleaned from that thing then. The wattages are so wonderfully low on those chips. In my opionion, all the other chips are trash compared, intel wise.

 

[Xeon]

Finally someone with some common sense.

Xeon

<font color=red>Post created with being a dickhead in mind.</font color=red>
<font color=white>For all emotional and slanderous statements contact THG for all law suits.</font color=white>

 

[Crashman]

It's a GREAT board, paired with the right parts it would make a perfect HTPC. Lots of desktop cases resemble home theater receivers or large VCRs and use Micro ATX cases. The low heat output allows for quiet air cooling, so it's perfect for the purpose.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[scottchen]

meph stfu already!! You keep giving out great information about the dothan chips!! stop you're making me wanting to buy one, but i want an Athlon64 as well. You're just pushing me, i'm on the edge of buying 2 systems, an Athlon64 and a Dothan.

LOL on a more serious note, what was that long pci slot on the DFI board? was that a PCI Express slot? I was too lazy to read it.

 

[jammydodger]

I dont understand why motherboard makers dont simply release a fully featured desktop board for the dothan? Do you reckon Intel have told them not to?

 

[dobster99]

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19404

"The real wild card amongst all these announcements is the Yonah dual core Pentium M coupled with the Napa chipset that's also promised for 2005. In reality, this is likely to be the most interesting of Intel's dual core products and we still believe that the internal war between Louis "desktop" Burns and Anand "Centrino" Chandrasekher is continuing. It would be a radical step too far for Intel to throw its Pentium 4 "Netburst" architecture into the bin overnight, so the existence of dual core Prescotts is a way of making the move without the whole world realising that the game is over for this architecture. You can read the crib sheet for the Pentium Ms, here."

Thats probably the problem right there. You think that as head of the desktop division, you would admit defeat and allow another product from another divison supplant your cpu
and invalidate all that money you just wasted on the prescott.

The dothan is limited to a 2.26 GHz to the end of 2005. But thats in its mobile form. A desktop form with less thermal and power restriction and rated at 2.4 GHz and above would be here already if the Dothan and Prescott were develop under the same Intel division. Office politics always have a way of interfering with innovations and productivity. They need to ditch the prescott already. It can barely get 400mhz faster that the woody (3.4GHz vs 3.8GHz), even though it was suppose to ramp up to 5GHz. All that money and R&D used for Prescott and Tejas and what do we get, an addtional 400mhz and SSE3. S*&t with all the money and R&D wasted on Pres and Tejs, Im sure they could of researched a way to get the Woody to ramp past 4GHz (which is faster clock for clock than a Prescott anyway) without a major revamp of the architecture. I bet the 3.4GHz for the Woody was a premature stop because of the introduction of Prescott.

Prescott the cpu version of Superman with Kryptonite (aka heat) wrap around its neck.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I definitely hate politics.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I dont understand why motherboard makers dont simply release a fully featured desktop board for the dothan? Do you reckon Intel have told them not to?

I don't know, but I'm under the impression that there are no non-intel chipsets for dothan available. If some chipset manufacturer had access and could design chipsets for dothan, we could see a dothan equipped with dual-channel DDR400 instead of single-channel DDR333. And we could see AGP 8x... :frown:

 

[endyen]

DFI is making and selling a desktop Dothan board, sorry, only in Japan.
Shuttle is expected to come out with a DD board as well. That would be 3.

 

[Mephistopheles]

OK, but these are <i>motherboard</i> manufacturers, not <i>chipset</i> manufacturers. It is the chipset which is restrictive there, not the motherboard manufacturer. These last ones usually do their best anyway.

Isn't socket 479 electrically compatible with 478?... Should be just a minor tweak for the engineers... But for us, it probably wouldn't work...

 

[endyen]

I think s479 has different voltage requirements as well.

 

[jammydodger]

Yeh I heard it was compatible. Even if it uses different voltages you could still create an adaptor for it.

 

[Mephistopheles]

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19466" target="_new">Here's</A> an article by the inquirer about the DFI desktop mobo for dothan.

...and what matters is that:

This is DFI, and they do overclocking really really well, and the 855GME-MGF is no exception. Adjustable FSB from 100-250MHz, clock multipliers, FSB:Memory multipliers, asynch PCI and AGP, and just about anything else you want to tweak is here. In fact, they have a chart in the press release showing a PM overclocked to 2.8GHz destroying an A64 and a P4EE in Doom3. Granted, it is in 640*480, but still, there is potential here, big potential.

This thing is 150% overclockable, meaning that the mobo supports dothan speeds of up to 5Ghz. So with this mobo, we'll actually reach the electrical (or maybe thermal first?) limits of dothan...

 

[Stimpy]

There are two main problems with having Dothan on the desktop.
a) Large stock of P4s left
b) no 64bit capability

Yes they may be very good in 32bit mode (integer anyway), but with MS likely to release XP64 next year, only A64 and the P4 architecture are ready. Essencially the Dothan would be competing with Sempron, for which they have the P4 based celeron, which they can potentially make 64bit compatible quickly and even get one over on AMD saying the budget chip is 64bit, at which point AMD would have to drop the Sempron range.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Would it not be a safe bet that the whole sonoma platform was delayed to january 2005 because they were busy implementing 64-bit capabilities? I think we'll be seeing 64-bit capable dothans by very early 2005...

 

[jammydodger]

If the dothan is electrically compatible with the P4 socket478 surly they could just use the 865 or 875 chipset with a different socket adaptor?

 

[raretech]

The only problem I have with thinking it is a safe bet that they're adding 64bit to it, is I'm not entirely clear why they wouldn't be announcing it ahead of time?

But they might be worried they won't have a stable implementation in time, so they keep quiet in case something goes wrong. I really hope you're right. This will drive X86-64 forward quite a bit, not to mention providing a vastly more level playing field. Especially if they get the speed increases in 64 bit that the Xeon got. That would be some chip.

Scotty is dead, long live Dothan. :lol:

<i>Nemo me impune lacesset</i>

 

[Mephistopheles]

Well... the 6xx series also has 64-bit support, but that was not widely announced either.

I'm guessing they wouldn't give AMD the advantage of having the only 64-bit notebook processor for long.

 

[priyajeet]

r there online places where one can get these processors - like OEM or boxed. What abt the DFI mobo ?

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue: