DX10 FOR XP!

[Scotteq]

siix, You are perfectly entitled to your opinions, and to be honest I don't care what they are and won't be bothered arguing about it. Suffice to say, if you don't like Vista then don't use it.

By way of correction to some of your statements:

DX10 is *not* a superset of DX9c. It is a completely different set of API's which have to be specifically programmed to. The two versions of Direct X are not directly compatible, and will not be "reverse-engineered". There was some effort to create a port for XP, but (1) the effort of translating the two consumes more resource than just running the software and (2) that project has been abandoned anyhow. So understand that this is NOT a patch~able item. Therefore, if you gave any of your money to that company selling patches for games, please be advised that you have been ripped off.

Instead, what is happening is that Vista includes a version of DX9 called 'Direct 3d 9Ex' - This is a modified API which uses the WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model) and allows Direct3D 9 applications to access some of the features available in Windows Vista such as cross-process shared surfaces, managed graphics memory, prioritization of resources, text anti-aliasing, advanced gamma functions, and device removal management.


As pointed out above - I suggest you return to your A+ certification classes.


{Message edited just to show that messages can be edited}

 

[vangvace]

siiix I have a feeling you're not going to like any MS OS developed after XP. I might even go so far as to throw OSX in there as well. I can't speak to Linux but OS are going to be more user friendly with each edition.

 

[cisco]

If M$ didn't put DX10 with Vista only, no one would buy that Shi*%y OS.

 

[bildo123]

If M$ didn't put DX10 with Vista only, no one would buy that Shi*%y OS.

Question:How long and what did you do during your time with using Vista?

Well, all I can say is I have absolutely no problems what so ever with Vista and the word is Vista 64 really shines. But time will tell and we will see what happens when that time comes.

 

[ohiou_grad_06]

siiix I have a feeling you're not going to like any MS OS developed after XP. I might even go so far as to throw OSX in there as well. I can't speak to Linux but OS are going to be more user friendly with each edition.

Maybe true. Even the new Leopard system is different. It's like a cross between Mac and windows. Before anyone bashes me and says I don't know what I'm talking about, I work for a school district as a tech, and almost everything we do is Mac, but I have also been using Windows for about 10 years. That said, in Vista you are able to bring back a lot of things. You can change the start menu and what not to the windows xp style, and really in functionality, it's not that much different, just a few more things. I mean think about how people used to make fun of XP for a fisher price style interface. Lol. Now everyone wants to bash vista. Man, ya gotta live with it, it's actually a quite nice OS once you learn your way around it.

 

[bildo123]

Maybe true. Even the new Leopard system is different. It's like a cross between Mac and windows. Before anyone bashes me and says I don't know what I'm talking about, I work for a school district as a tech, and almost everything we do is Mac, but I have also been using Windows for about 10 years. That said, in Vista you are able to bring back a lot of things. You can change the start menu and what not to the windows xp style, and really in functionality, it's not that much different, just a few more things. I mean think about how people used to make fun of XP for a fisher price style interface. Lol. Now everyone wants to bash vista. Man, ya gotta live with it, it's actually a quite nice OS once you learn your way around it.

Exactly, and eventually once time rolls on the bashing will slowly fade away and everyone will love it and then M$ will release another OS which will get bashed etc etc repeat

 

[Luke69]

So ito sum up , do the Alky project etc actually fully make direct x10 in XP? or is it just some hacks to do some of the functions and change the Version no to appear as if DX10 is installed.

 

[bildo123]

So ito sum up , do the Alky project etc actually fully make direct x10 in XP? or is it just some hacks to do some of the functions and change the Version no to appear as if DX10 is installed.

I'm going to vote B) Some hacks

 

[antas]

Exactly, and eventually once time rolls on the bashing will slowly fade away and everyone will love it and then M$ will release another OS which will get bashed etc etc repeat

Lolz 😀 I couldn't agree more ... Well, for me it would be depend on your need ... I'm using XP32 on my desktop, for gaming and day to day works, and Vista32 on my laptop. Both have their strength and weaknessess. The advantage of XP is any current applications is compatible with XP (that's my reason of still using XP). But then will come a time where all applications will compatible with Vista and no backward compatibilities. Time goes ...

 

[FalconMaltese]

Think the chaps that love Vista are missing a point. Yes with powerful system vista is fine. but XP is even better. I have 2 gig ram 6750 cpu and an 8800GTS and do not want vista.
I am waiting for the next ms os. I am typing this on Linux. Many PC mags have tested vista against XP and XP always wins.
MS know that if they put DX10 onto XP vista has no advantage at all.
les s face it, the great MS got it wrong, or perhaps they got it right, but with XP.

Don't worry bout DX10 it pretty much just reduces your frame rate. The fact is games such as COD4 in DX9 already look fantastic.

All the first DX10 cards are not man enough to run DX10, just like the first DX9 cards in their time. Buy the time DX10 cards match DX9 cards for frame rate, the new MS OS will be out. Then I will upgrade my XP box.
😀 😀

 

[Scotteq]

Your answer:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2302495,00.asp

It's clear that driver issues in Windows Vista have been largely ironed out, as the five to 10 percent performance drop compared to Windows XP is virtually gone. In fact, the only test out of these three in which Vista didn't match its predecessor was in the pre-SP1 World in Conflict result......


If you were expecting a huge drop in performance as your eyes scanned from the XP to the Vista results, well, surprise! As many a tech analyst predicted, Windows Vista's gaming performance conundrum has largely been solved, and it was mainly due to early graphics drivers.

In fact, I'd been planning to run a few other gaming tests, but the results from these were so uninteresting that further work didn't seem merited. Love it or hate it, Vista is performing far better than it used to.

Game performance, it seems, has been exorcised from your concern when choosing a Microsoft operating system. That leaves a few other factors, of course: stability, responsiveness, eye candy, price, DirectX version, and a few other odds and ends.

It took about a year and a half, but the performance gap between Vista and its forerunner has finally evaporated.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_nvidia_windows_vista_driver_performance_update/default.asp

 

[FalconMaltese]

So we can expect dx9 frame rates in dx10 games right. Frame rates is the most important when playing games, not eye candy.
Took DX9 years to match DX7, which is why dx7 was often an option in games.
For most of us DX9 became the option of choice on cards like the 6800. Not really that long ago. Until then I opted for DX7 due to frame rate. So for me having DX9 on full is still new, so still looks really good.

 

[notherdude]

Falcon, DX 10 is optional in Vista. It's there when you need it. Frame rates the same as DX 9? I doubt it but that's irrelevant when you exceed a certain rate. Last I checked there was little out there for it worth the trouble. So you make some good points about it's relevance "at the moment". Time will likely change that. The newest GPUs are plenty powerful for it though. Lot has changed since first gen DX 10 cards. For gamers buying new PCs now Vista is the way to go and Vista 64 at that. Vista 64 is hot! Pushing XP for gamers at this point is so 2007. LOL Seriously, Vista 64 is the way to go for gamers. If you already have a nice XP rig there is no hurry to upgrade but the next MS OS is just going to be Vista 2nd edition. No great new improvements will be forthcoming. The anti-vista hype is 99% FUD at this time. Don't let the Mac guy con you.

BTW, PC magazines suck compared to serious PC sites. (with a few exceptions)

Don't put a lot of hope in the next Windows being different from Vista to any great degree. Vista IS the next gen MS OS. 7 will be based on it.

 

[speedbird]

So we can expect dx9 frame rates in dx10 games right. Frame rates is the most important when playing games, not eye candy.

I believe the comparison is between DX9 games using Vista and XP.

Your right though DX10 is much more GPU intensive than DX9 and as for Eye Candy, I've not seen one DX10 game that has impressed me so far. Crysis looks wonderful, but change it to DX9 and you'll see the difference is subtle.

 

[ThreatDown]

I believe the comparison is between DX9 games using Vista and XP.

Your right though DX10 is much more GPU intensive than DX9 and as for Eye Candy, I've not seen one DX10 game that has impressed me so far. Crysis looks wonderful, but change it to DX9 and you'll see the difference is subtle.

Directx 10 was actually built to have LESS overhead and such than directx 9 and is not in itself more gpu intensive at all than directx 9. The problem lies in shoddy programming in gmes that have used it.

 

[bildo123]

*Carefully heaves threads dead remains back into the casket*

Thread necromancy is nasty!

In a nutshell however the difference between good systems in a Vista vs XP environment is moot.

*Pounds final nail on casket*

 

[Incog]

Well I must be retarded because I have all dx10 enabled on XP thanks to the hard work of peeps that like XP, not that dx10 makes any HUGE diffrence but its nice to see the extra shadows smoke ect. For hardcore gamers like myself Vista is a big Boston Steamer fresh off the boat, too many video issues guess that is what happens when you release an OS to the public being the testers even with the service pack there is thousands of people with issues such as drivers vid drivers being stuck in a endless loop just google 'ATI driver stops resonding'. With that being said XP dx10 will only get better after all its just software so it will happen whether your ego believes it or not And as far as MS supporting it , who cares if you need help from them then you need a frontal lobotomy

WinXP Service Pack 3
Intel Pentium D, 3.76 GHz
4 gigs DDR2
ATI Radeon HD 3870 512MB DDR4
Realtek HD Audio output 5.1 Surround at 280W RMS of power
Hard Drive Free/Total 980.27 GB/1941.16 GB

 

[Zoron]

I think you'll soon discover you most certainly do not have full DX10 support. You may have some effects of a DX9 game running in "DX10 mode"... but that would be about it. Yes, there is a difference.

 

[crystal_tech]

too bad the next m$ OS is based off the vista core

 

[notherdude]

too bad the next m$ OS is based off the vista core

There is nothing wrong with the vista core - stop watching those Apple ads, they lie.

 

[4Ryan6]

WOW! All this negative Vista comments sounds like me before I discovered that driver issues were holding Vista back, once that was solved now Vista outperforms XP.

I sure as hell don't have any intentions of going back to XP and if I were loosing performance thats exactly what I'd do.

You guys low rating Vistas DX10 performance must be running low end hardware, it does take a descent machine to get the true performance from Vista.

Of course the same exact hardware performance senarios applied to XP when it was released, Remember?

If you're running a machine that barely runs XP stably, I surely wouldn't suggest installing any flavor of Vista on it, you'll be just asking for trouble.

However if you're already running a cutting edge machine and all your hardware is Vista ready, you're seriously missing out by not running Vista.

Heres a challenge for you;

If you're dual booting between Vista and XP on the same computer with exactly the same hardware, then post your benchmark screen shots to back your poor performance claims.

Make sure its the same computer now, you may just be blown away with what you discover.

 

[4Ryan6]

There is nothing wrong with the vista core - stop watching those Apple ads, they lie.

If Apple didn't see Vista as a serious threat, they'd have never spent the money they did on their adds!

So they're just confirming Vistas viability with their fears.

As you very well know notherdude, I learned the hard way the performance gap had closed between Vista and XP, much to my shock!

But the difference is I admitted it, I didn't try to just forget my statements along with apologies to those I'd possibly offended.

So it will be interesting to see where this goes.

Have a great day man! Ryan

 

[4Ryan6]

Well I must be retarded because I have all dx10 enabled on XP thanks to the hard work of peeps that like XP, not that dx10 makes any HUGE diffrence but its nice to see the extra shadows smoke ect. For hardcore gamers like myself Vista is a big Boston Steamer fresh off the boat, too many video issues guess that is what happens when you release an OS to the public being the testers even with the service pack there is thousands of people with issues such as drivers vid drivers being stuck in a endless loop just google 'ATI driver stops resonding'.

Your DX10 claims are an illusion, and if your ATI driver stops responding in Vista, well thats an ATI problem and if I'm not mistaken ATI has resolved those issues by now, at least I know for a fact Nvidia has!

Vista is not the problem when you have driver trouble go to the source of the driver release, when your driver problems are history Vista runs great, so this BS you're spouting is just that BS, get your driver issues straight and Vista will shine out over XP!

Personally I don't care what OP/SYS you use, just make sure you prove your claims, since you seem to be the Vista attacker here, you sure don't seem to be changing the minds of those of us running Vista now and are thoroughly pleased with its performance, because we know the difference!

But have a nice day anyway man! Ryan

 

[Zoron]

It's funny how people can ignore all the facts that state that full DX10 is not even possible under XP. Even if it were, the performance would be much worse in XP due to all the DX10 calls being wrapped to DX9. A game running in "DX 10 mode" isn't the same as a true DX10 game. You get a few extra effects, but not the entire set of APIs.

 

[bildo123]

The funny thing is, I bet all the XP fanboys are gonna grab Windows 7, and brag how awesome it is and that skipping Vista was the best move they made. As mentioned before however its using the same kernel from Vista. So if all the XP fanboys really stuck to their guns (and weren't/are hypocrites) they would skip Windows 7, which I don't think is going to happen.