DX10 FOR XP!

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you are the exception bildo.
every pc I've had the misfortune to work on for others that had vista was nightmarish. Software needed to be re-bought, drivers unavailable. os very very slow. Wait, you said vista was fast but methinks you may have upgraded from a pentium pro 133 running xp to one of those drm infected garbage pc's sold at walmart? I'm just guessing. I am willing to bet that my 5 year old pc is far more responsive running xp or linux than your new out of the box pc is at running Microsoft DRMvista.
This is ridiculous. I don't even believe you. Maybe you tried some early Vista on old machines and threw up your hands when your skills failed. We talk with gamers and enthusiasts everyday who are using Vista. It's working great now and clearly as fast as XP. I have it on two machines that also run XP - they are all good, about the same really and i have been configuring and trouble shooting windows daily since 93. Read this and the comments. You are parroting stale FUD! http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=3236
 
you are the exception bildo.
every pc I've had the misfortune to work on for others that had vista was nightmarish. Software needed to be re-bought, drivers unavailable. os very very slow. Wait, you said vista was fast but methinks you may have upgraded from a pentium pro 133 running xp to one of those drm infected garbage pc's sold at walmart? I'm just guessing. I am willing to bet that my 5 year old pc is far more responsive running xp or linux than your new out of the box pc is at running Microsoft DRMvista.



Clearly a case of PEBKAC
 
you see i would be happy to move to vista 64 bit now but my raid array doesnt have vista drivers, and thats too much data to loose lol.

im happy with XP, when i first tried Vista it was terrible! its only been the last few month things have picked up and its better.

however i do think it is not that great an OS, and it failed like ME.

i hate it when ppl bring up the argument "it was the same for every OS" f**k was it, 3.1 was good, 95 sucked, 98 was great, ME complete failure, 2000 very popular no complaints, XP brilliant, vista sucked...

if you follow the pattern Windows 7 should be one of the best operating systems to be ever be realised 😀
 
XP was HATED for a LONG time. 'You'll pry 98 from my cold dead hard drive' was the battle cry then. Games were slow if they ran at all. Drivers were weak. The enterprise was screaming 'why would I want this Fischer Price consumer OS shiiiit when I got 2000?" It took several years for it to gain acceptance. Were you even around then? Before service pack 2! security was a JOKE. Machines were running like molasses in winter they were so choked with malware. Oh, yea, brillient!

95 was another major technology change. Moving away from DOS and to Windows full time, Yea, there were issues but it was a godsend to get rid of those awful DOS memory limits. Plug and play was plug and pray but most of the time it actually worked. Sure, 98 and then 98 SE refined the new model but I'd still take a mature 95 over 3.1 any day of the week.

Understand Vista for what it is: a major rewrite with many fundamental changes. It broke a lot of early stuff because of this and thank both MS and the OEMs for the crappy early drivers. It's still a little off on the fit and finish but it's working very well now. Performance is on a par with XP, frame rates are equal, etc. etc.

There are simply too many fools who staked their reputation on hating it and now they can't admit the obvious. At this stage we always hear the same thing 'Vista sux like ME' but then no proof, no evidence, except perhaps some sales figures or hearsay . . stale echoes of 2006 and early 07. Time to move on!

7 has the same core as Vista, it's just a polished Vista - Vista SE. But yea, one of the best OSes ever, if that floats your boat, sounds like a fig leaf to me.
 
Go back to 2002 and read just how "brilliant" people thought XP was... you'll see a lot of whining and complaining and "I'll stick with 98, thanks!". Many people hated 95 when it was released... and there were a few 98 detracters out there as well. At that point in time, there were a lot less viable alternatives than there are now... so they weren't as vocal about it.

Vista is nothing like ME... and I'm getting quite fed up with the comparisons. Having dealt extensively with ME, I can honestly say that Vista is head and shoulders... hell torso and legs too... above ME. I just haven't seen nearly as many issues with Vista as I did with ME. I don't know why people insist on making that comparison.

You do realize that Windows 7 will simply be Vista 2.0, correct? I'm sure it will have features that Vista doesn't... but it will be the same kernel. Just like XP and Vista though, I'm sure we'll hear many complaints when it's first released... and they'll probably be even louder than the Vista haters are now. There will always be some excuse for people to complain about Microsoft's products... and they only get louder with each release.
 
notherdude, ive used every version of windows from 3.1, i still have the floppy disk drives it came on.

so what it uses the same kernal, so do other versions of windows(2000 and XP use NT and they are different) and they vary quite a bit. Just because windows 7 uses the same kernal as vista doesnt mean that it hasnt been improved considerabely.

Vista,

1. slow file transfer speeds.
2. still does have some compatibility issues(like my raid array)
3. some games require to be run in admin mode otherwise they just crash.
4. i hate the control panel, cant find a thing.
5. search feature(on windows start menu) is useless because it only searches through the .exe files.
6. gadgets complete waste of time, and clutter.(personal preference i suppose, i dont have any desktop icons, and i have my taskbar set to hide.)
7. memory hog, and because of SP3 vista is still slower.

and anyone that says its because my system is slow is a fool, my system is fine, its not top of the range anymore but i should run vista just fine.

there was one feature in vista i really liked, the ability to turn down the volume of different programs.

im really looking forward to Windows 7, ive been playing with the beta version for a while now, and it does have improvements over Vista.

 


agreed on everything, except, NT isnt a kernel but whatever, i see the point you were trying to make. my pc is an athlon 6000x2, 3g ram, radeon hd 3850. i recently reformatted my old compaq celeron 600mhz 256mb ram with useless onboard video for my fiancee to use at school, it went from factory installed 98se(no reinstalls or even restores since i unsealed the box - over a decade) to xp because the school software she had to use wasnt compatible.

and wouldnt you know, the home box running vista runs at about the same speed as the celeron with xp. of course larger programs take longer to load but the windows interface on it's own only slows down on the laptop when loading up a really content-heavy page in firefox.

one thing i would like to add is that for some strange reason, every time i try to load up the folder that i store my video files, vista decides that it needs to "load" the folder contents for about 25 seconds.

you know, that green bar that runs across the address bar before showing you the icons in the folder.

i have 67 items in this folder, 42 gigabytes. all divx, all use the vlc pylon icon and not thumbnails. small icon setting.

now in my hi-def folder: 55 items, 307gb. no load time. my music folder has over 1000 items using detailed list setting. it is instant, like every other folder i access on either of my machines.

the best part is that this happens every single time, not just once in a while to get the info into the ram. i have to wait 25 seconds to see the icons and then if i go into a subfolder within the video folder and then push the back button it makes me wait all over again. google tells me it isnt that obscure of a problem either.

what the hell is it loading for so long? explain that to me please, experts. how can you techies with your A+ cert defend this garbage feature of a garbage bloatware of a product. yes there was backlash when xp came out but you have to be delusional to think that the hate went on for as long as it has for vista. as for 7 having the same kernel type argument, why did everyone who had any knowledge of computers whatsoever stop using norton stuff? was it because it didnt detect malware as well anymore or was it because of other reasons...

i dont have a source for this but im sure you can google if you really care, i remember watching an interview with gates before he left. it was pretty casual, they were joking around and he was pretty relaxed. when asked what he feels was the worst windows he had ever put out he responded something along the lines of being able to answer that question only after the next version of windows is released.

if HE thinks it is the worst, why do you guys love it so much? because its pretty and shiny and new? you like seeing through the top of the window frames? is that really enough?

we focus so much on how fast our hardware is and spend so much cash to keep it up to date but when its comes to software being efficient we need a serious slap in the face to shake us from our consumer stupor enough to make a stand like we did with norton. 40% is the number i see most from tech sites comparing xp to vista speeds using various benchmarks. how much slower does the next OS need to be? 80%? twice as slow? hell just look at min specs for games now, 1g ram for xp and 1.5 for vista. sounds backwards to me. shouldnt progress, as a rule, move us forward? i am an average personal pc user. i browse the web, download torrents, watch movies and shows, play games. why should i use vista when it just cancels out my hardware upgrades? do i really need all the services packed with vista or would it be just as easy to keep all the drivers and junk on the dvd where they dont take up resources and install them as i need them. or even at least give me the damn option to do a custom install and click off the boxes in front of things i dont need like ease of access center or task scheduler. you know, like it used to let me before it thought i would be too confused by the advanced options button.

they really are geniuses though for preventing "dx10 on xp"(the google string that brought me here) as it is the reason i put up with my loading folder and the other garbage listed in the quote up top.

i hate caps. focus on that.
 
we focus so much on how fast our hardware is and spend so much cash to keep it up to date but when its comes to software being efficient we need a serious slap in the face to shake us from our consumer stupor enough to make a stand like we did with norton. 40% is the number i see most from tech sites comparing xp to vista speeds using various benchmarks

This is simply wrong. 40% is absurd. There is one guy out there posting this crap about 1 benchmark, ONE!, Kennedy over at Infoworld on a one man crusade.

Vista is as fast as XP. Deal with it. Read these recent results:

1. Vista scores the same or sometimes better than XP on game frame rates. It didn't at first because of immature drivers but it does now. Proof: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2302500,00.asp That's from Extremetech. Another from Firing Squad: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_nvidia_windows_vista_driver_performance_update/

2. Vista is as fast or faster than XP, but 7 will be the fastest yet: Proof: http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=3236. This guy did like 25 benchmarks and shut up a lot ppl who were mindless repeating the canard that Vista is slow. Vista WAS slow on old equipment, before the better drivers and fixes and it IS slow on under spec machines and on crapware loaded installs from OEMs. Because of the Vista FUD out there the slowness was blamed on Vista's core design when it should not have been! XP may be a little faster on some things but Vista seems to make up for it on others, particularly on powerful mult-core and RAM heavy systems such as the one you are getting.

As for 7 being substantially better, I never said it wasn't - it's the same kernel but more polished and I can't wait. Meanwhile I'll continue enjoying Vista for what it is -
 
your links are broken but i think you are referring to this article:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2302499,00.asp Gaming performance Windows Vista SP1 vs XP SP3???


in the 3DMark05 benchmark the CPU score is higher for XP, kudos on the higher gfx score though...

3DMark06 XP comes out on top.

World in Conflict - equal
Supreme Commander xp is slightly slower.
Crysis - equal


well its nice to know that now its down to personal preference and mine is XP till they fix the Vista interface and actually make it intuitive... which will happen in Windows 7.


 


Thanks for checking the links - fixed now
 


I like it because it works. Wow... now there's a concept.

Vista doesn't use much more resources than XP... what you and many others have failed to realize is that Vista reports it's resource usage differently than XP.

Vista's driver model is very different from XP's... that is why DX10 doesn't work on XP. The difference is about equivilent to the difference between 98 and XP's driver models. Regurgitating the same lie over and over doesn't make it true... it just makes you more of a liar. Win 2K drivers did work with XP when XP was still in release candidate stage and upon release.... but XP drivers do not work in Vista... some did in beta versions, but that was it.

If you want to remove features in Vista, you can do so through the Programs applet in the Control Panel. To strip features out during install, you can use vLite. The tools are there... use them. The truth is the "bloat" you complain about is there because others demand it. People complained very loudly when something as insignificant as Fax wasn't included in Vista's Home versions like it was in XP Home. You might want to strip it down... but people that want even more crap included with their OS far outnumber you. Guess who's going to win that fight...? Enthusiasts have always been a minority of PC users... corporate users and average home consumers make up the bulk of MS's customers. Fortunately, as I mentioned earlier, there are tools out there for the enthusiast to help us make Windows do what we want it to do.

As to your anecdotal evidence with your many benchmarks to support your inaccurate conclusions... I had XP installed on my current PC before upgrading to Vista. I didn't notice any sort of performance degredation after upgrading... and in fact since I also upgraded to a 22" monitor and still didn't notice any performance degredation, I have to conclude that Vista is performing better than XP. I don't need to give you any sort of evidence, my word should be as good as yours.

(Seriously though... if Vista were truly as slow as you say it is [40%... come on now... who the hell are you trying to kid?] I should have really noticed a slowdown after my upgrade on the same hardware. However, even without benchmarks, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that Vista isn't performing any worse than XP on my hardware)
 



Siix is a tech huh. I am finding this to be a joke in it's own. XP will always rule Vista, but Dude get real, Vista does every bit better then XP and it isn't a OS for dummies. Just think back to when XP was released, and when you remember just how much of a pain in the butt that was, you will agree your sticking your foot in your mouth.


Heres the truth of it all; siix is a tech as 2 year olds tie there own shoes!
XP is to vista as responsive is to Decent


Here is another fact, My Vista with Default configuration will boot 10 seconds faster then XP will. My Vista boot is about 22 seconds, my XP stripped down is about 28 and in stock 32.

You babbling nonsence makes your lame A+ Cert, which any drunk can get, mean nothing. It is a General knowledge course that gets your foot in the door of nothing. It is a Certification designed to help the novice understand enough to determine if Technical jobs in Computer IT is something they want to do. By reading your idiocy, I can tell your a noob who thinks that they are gods gift to computer IT, and you use Free Security and let it do it's job on default.

Here is a better one, your Afraid to learn something new and for that matter understand something knew, something that has progressed 80% smoother then XP did. Yes Vista Busted into the market way early, and most of the Vista Development team was fired after 2 weeks of the public release. Sure Vista is dead to MS already, But Vista and XP kernels together ilike in Windows 7 Your immature XP will be dead, and you will be sitting in the corner with no one to communicate with, while your kids leave you in the Ages of the dino.


Happy Trails novice user <b> SIIX</B>


BTW I love XP and will continue to use it, the only difference in us is that I have accepted both and have something worth calling a PC, now it is time that you stop buying $30 motherboards, or learn how to maintain them!!!!

Vista is fine, now man up and migrate! Maybe I will be a nice guy and give you some advise on a computer worth Calling a computer. Most likely Your gonna have to learn your stuff, because you would just break it anyway!!!!
 



This guy belongs in Windows For Work Groups!!!!Windows Seven Owns all of them and XP Junkies will migrate to Windows 7 I am calling it right now. XP is Dead before WIndows 7 Gets Released this summer!!

MARK MY WORDS, IT WILL HAPPEN BY THE END OF THE YEAR!
 




Feeling lazey isn't a good reason to stay, Both the newer releases of Vista and one of the Beta releases of WIn7 upgrade from XP just fine, SO what you really wanna be paranooid, By a 40 Gig HD and spend 20 bux on it yippie
 
There is all sorts of anecdotal evidence that either Vista is faster or XP is faster but of course you hear all the time that Vista is slower so that must be true, right? Wrong. Vista is faster in some ways and XP is faster in others and 7, which uses the Vista core (as does the much lauded server 2008 BTW) is the fastest of the three. http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=3789 In this test Adrian did 30 some benchmarks on two different systems (AMD and Intel) and XP and Vista are a dead heat. We already know that on games Vista and XP tie on frame rates.

So all this crap about Vista being a 'slow pig' is pure FUD.

You see Vista MUST be fundamentally a 'slow pig', bloated TO THE CORE. Why? because the haters (the mac and linux fanboys who will trash anything to do with MS as a matter of religious faith and stick in the mud XP addicts) know that anything else wrong with Vista could possibly get fixed over time. And indeed they well remember that XP was also hated and vilified like Vista but it eventually became accepted. Their mission is to prevent this acceptance from ever taking place and thanks to the zillion dollar Apple ad campaign and to the fools who let if influence them their strategy has worked, good job XP lovers, well done.
 



That statement, is 100% in error.

I'm dual booting Vista Home Premium 32 and WinXP Pro 32, every benchmark I've run straight across the board, meaning DX9.0c vs DX9.0c Vista has beat WinXP, Vista has even beat WinXP when it was DX10 vs DX9.0c.

Before the release of SP1 for Vista it may have been close to the truth, but after the release of Sp1 for Vista that statement is not true, if these tech sites you're talking about are current and up to date, then post links to them and lets see where you're getting your information from.

Personally I don't even want to get into this arguement crap, but you're passing on false information and someone that doesn't know any better may actually believe you.
 



I am thinking the same. FOr all we know these people are hiding under the lable of tech who are really using it to empower themselves and there comments. These people who claim to be techs, may for all just be Loyal MAC owners, who are just out to kill MS. Yeah I am a MAC lover to, I just can't afford a MAC that is worth buying. Because of this I am forced to use Windows and other PC formats. I hate MS too, but the truth of it is that the OS isn't that much different when you compare it side by side with MAC. Yeah MAC will decimate over windows in the multimedia area, while MS will own when it comes to office stuff. This is basically what sets them apart! But then when you look at the available software the PC wins becuase it is capable of satisfying both crowds. It pleases business environments and gaming/multimedia groups. However if the MAC wasn't so expensive and there was more software around, then the gaming industry would take a huge turn.

MS Windows prevails why, becuase PC's on average cost half the price of the MAC OS based systems! Looking at current sale and marketing statistics, MACintosh is making a comeback and taking out the PC world at a respectable rate. This fact here is supported by some rather shocking news about extreme viruses you now find on MAC environments for OS10.2.* operating systems.


It is really sad, but the guy I replied to is just out right out of his mind. Yeah the post was sometime ago and the chances of him caring are next to nothing, but the people need to know the difference between an OS and how it compares, or operates to the other. DX10 will never be on XP because Vista, well no longer supports legacy, and the bus usage is totally different.

OH to those who don't know, Vista SP2 should be out soon. You can find betas for it but it isn't very public as of yet. This is great. I foresee that this SP will make Vista closer to complete and provide some competition with Windows 7. The Smart ones out there will then wonder OMG, not again. Now we will be still on this argument, just comparing different Operating Systems, and the XP lovers will then continue on with there arguments supporting Vista. WHY? Because the Vista isn't the New OS anymore and it will be harder to nit-pick on it. That is what this is about in this current XP vs. Vista battle. Vista is new and they don't know it like they do the older XP system!!

I truly feel sorry for them I really do. This is the problem with Society, People are afraid of maturing with computer technologies as they should be, it does make sense. What we don't know about will always scare you, but who has the NADS to chase and control it is what will make the advancement become pronounced!!
 




Fanboys? WHAT? this argument is in't about the FANBOY for XP or Vista, and if you wanna turn it into that they you should consider the understanding of why these people do it. IT's INTIMIDATION LIKE GRANDMA HAS ABOUT A COMPUTER, WHICH KEEPS HER FROM GETTING IT! it's that simple.


I for matter of the knowledge I have on both environments, use both. Mostly because of network compatability with my network devices not being Vista compliant. Stuff like my Printer which is the most important part. I am forced to use XP on it, or some variant on the OS such as 2003!!. But I enjoy both of them, an dI do love the gaming on the Vista machine, however like many other XP users, hate using it on the OS becuase simply some installers just aren't compatable and will put our Save folders where the software just don't know where to look for it. This is that Compuguys argument. Vista default document folders are just not available for some games, and some of those games just don't understand how to make something that isn't there. However these little problems are easy to fix, and the novice user just don't understand that a XP only installer in vista simply needs a My Documents folder using a tree that is found in XP. That is the big issue their!


Both Operating systems are Flashy in there own flavor, and these Said Loyal FANBOYS, APPLE, XP, Linux, whatever you perfer just need to wake up and understand an OS is built around a direction. Why do you think that Linux has so many variants? BECAUSE THEY ARE BUILT FOR A SPECIFIC REASON TO CARRY OUT SPECIFIC GOALS!!
 
i disagree with some driver statements above, even after beta stages, there were some components that people would say were incompatible, because they couldnt find drivers, well they couldnt find vista drivers, but some (not saying all/0 devices could be run with xp drivers... the drivers for some devices are as simple as coded instruction, which were good enough for xp and vista to understand, and now days microsoft has wised up and provides new "generic" drivers through windows update.
 
<Notes that the efforts to build a DX10 port to XP died a year ago when the Alky project folded... Notes that DX11 will be released with Win 7... Checks Calendar and notes May is RC time... Wonders why people are still wasting their breath on a 2 year old argument... Especially when nothing 'new' has been said by anyone...>


{edit} Correction: *THREE* Year old argument, since the OP was made in 2006.
 
I don't know why people get so heated about operating systems. Whatever works best for you is what you should use. I have a little bit older machine (AMD Athlon 64 3700, 2 GB Ram, Nvidia 7900 GTO). I've had all three versions of Windows on my machine. I'm playing LOTRO and in both Vista and 7 I could not turn the texture and shadow settings all the way up without experiencing heaving hitching and low frame rate. In XP I have all the settings maxed out and its been playing smoothly. I've had similar results with Hellgate.

I think the big problem for me is my graphics card doesn't have that much memory on it. With Vista and 7's additional memory requirements its likely pushing memory usage to the top. Of course people with faster cards and more video memory probably wouldn't notice this. Isn't 32-bit Vista and 7 both capped at 2 gigs of ram anyway?
 
Isn't 32-bit Vista and 7 both capped at 2 gigs of ram anyway?

Where do people get this asinine garbage from? Do they make it up as they go along? Or perhaps they listen to your Friend who has a Friend who once read a story about someone who built a PC??

On the off chance that the meaning behind the above reply may be obtuse: "No, there are no memory limitations in Vista or Win 7 that do not already exist in XP."







 
They are not "capped". You are confused. Just because 32-bit Vista or 7 display 2GB of RAM when you have 4GB does not mean that they are capped at 2GB. Thirty-two bit OSes are limited to 4GB of addressable memory (that includes ALL memory in the computer, not just the RAM). The reason you only see 2GB of RAM in a computer with 4GB is because after all the other memory in the computer has been allocated (vid card, any add in cards, drive caches, etc) whatever is left is allocated to the RAM. Depending on the amount of RAM on your vid cards, you could see as much as 3 - 3.5GB of RAM... 2GB isn't typical unless you have 2 vid cards with 1GB of RAM.

So once again, there is no "cap" with 32-bit Windows.
 
you are the exception bildo.
every pc I've had the misfortune to work on for others that had vista was nightmarish. Software needed to be re-bought, drivers unavailable. os very very slow. Wait, you said vista was fast but methinks you may have upgraded from a pentium pro 133 running xp to one of those drm infected garbage pc's sold at walmart? I'm just guessing. I am willing to bet that my 5 year old pc is far more responsive running xp or linux than your new out of the box pc is at running Microsoft DRMvista.

I understand this is a mere stranger with only a single post a few months ago, but I'm a little bored...

Coincidence how a name brand manufactured computer and Vista being slow were in the same sentence? Not so. Most of the manufactures add tons of bloatware which slowdown the system giving the impression that, well the News said Vista was slow, so going by the only clue they have, Vista must be the issue. But again someone dated this post being about three years old so, it's old news. Also both my new machine and the old machine were built by myself.

As far as the old AMD 3400+ and 1.2GB system is going, so far so good. I had a small issue with a printer, in which I just reinstalled and never heard of since then. But literally, since this post, I haven't had to touch the PC for fixing purposes. Plus its not the fact that it doesn't have problems, I don't hear anything about it being slow or anything either. Either way, I'm surprised this thread was still alive.
 
There is a flaw that not one person is talking about.
The sidebar in vista does not play well with crossfire at all.
I have a system with 16Gb ram and two shader model 4.1 crossfire cards.
I turn off the sidebar, everything is great, I turn on the sidebar and it starts self installing multiple sidebar apps and freezes my rig.
I trained through Masters Institute before they went bankrupt and have done some beta testing for microsoft.
So far, the guys over at msoft cannot solve this. I wish they would either solve it or make it easier for gamers who are noobs to disable some Vista addons that could interfere with a gaming platform.
When you ask Microsoft techs about it, do you know what pat answer email you often get?
The blah blah blah about how they are not building the vista os for gamers at all, but mostly to attract businesses.
It is almost a subliminal...go buy our stand alone gaming platform if you want to play.
I am not any happier with Mac either.
I am very grateful for all the people in pc land who are developing apps to better enable gaming across multiple platforms.
 
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